Spammers Sue Spamee

sebFlyte writes "In an interesting take on the law, some (alleged) spammers are suing some poor chap who got them blocked by ISPs due to the fact they kept sending him spam. According to Spamhaus the company doing the suing is on their books as spammer, and also as a spyware company... If this case goes the wrong way, things could get very sticky for anyone wanting to report spam."

Comments

Can Spam Act as defense

[fembots]

This is a serious problem. Lawyers/spammers are now citing CSA, and as long as they're following that ACT, it will be legal.

However, it doesn't matter if spamming is legal or otherwise, this is just another example of rich people's law.

If this spammer is doing reasonably well, he might just have enough money to drag on. This will have a big impact on the victims, because even if you're rightfully entitled to complain about a spammer, you would now have a second thought if you have enough money to defend yourself for few months, even if the outcome is in your favour.

On a side note, the spamee, Jay Stuler is appealing for help from the public in fighting the suit and has set up a PayPal account to pay for his legal fees and is asking for donations. Maybe a bit of "email campaign" asking recipients to donate $5 and pass the email to 5 friends? :)

Re:Can Spam Act as defense

[Senjutsu]

You cannot get sued for complaining.

As this case illustrates, you can be sued for anything. Sure, you probably won't lose, but can you afford to take the case far enough to be sure? Most people can't.

Re:Can Spam Act as defense

[KiltedKnight]

If you can't lose, you should move immediately for the case to be dismissed as a frivolous lawsuit. If you have a reasonably wise and intelligent judge hearing the case, he'll look at it, agree, and throw it out. The judge would then warn the lawyer about bringing up frivolous lawsuits, potentially fining him for doing so.

Perhaps he should look for a way to counter-sue on those grounds. He followed the law, made a simple request based on the TOS of the ISP, and he's being harassed with a frivolous lawsuit intended to seek damages for something he is not liable for.

Re:Can Spam Act as defense

[Dashing Leech]

"you should move immediately for the case to be dismissed as a frivolous lawsuit"

The problem is that just to get to the point that you can ask for the lawsuit to be dismissed will probably cost you thousands of dollars. Just to sit down with a lawyer to look over the suit in the first case might cost you a few hundred. Even a few thousand dollars can break the bank for some people.

There should be a system (perhaps there is, and someone can point me to it) whereby an individual can ask for a case to be reviewed before even talking to a lawyer. This is just taking schoolyard bullying to a higher level -- if you fight back it will only get worse for you even if you eventually win by getting the bully in trouble.

Does this case hold?

[oskard]

If anything, they should sue the ISP, not the individual. Props to the ISP though for listening to the guy.

tthis is convoluted

[Wansu]

No wonder people are saying to heck with the internet. Spam, virii, worms, spyware, goofy OS problems ... My dad asked me, "What damn good is it?" I see his point.

Soo... let me get this straight...

[popo]

If Person-A tells Company-B to do something which may or may not be legal to Company-C...

And Company-B goes ahead and does it.

Isn't Company-B the liable party here?

e.g. -- If I tell my Landlord to kick out my loud upstairs neighbor -- and for some reason he complies and *does* it.... As far as I know my neighbor's furious, my landlord's getting sued and I'm nothing other than stoked.

Anyone?

why is ICanSpam a defense?

[alizard]

There's a legal definition of prohibited spam under the act, and there's the entirely different definition (unsolicited junk mail) in the AUP contracts the spammers signed with their ISPs which is consistent with the popular definition and the definition used in most dictionaries recent enough to include spam as anything but a delicious canned meat product from Hormel.

Breach of contract is the authority that ISPs are using to shut spammers down.

The victim was reporting violations of AUP contracts with their ISPs to the ISPs, NOT violations of ICANSPAM.

This case should have already have been thrown out of court.

Anyone tracked down and named the lawyers yet?

Re:Ridiculous

[Dashing Leech]

"Why, the legal process ought to be open only to those people whose arguments you and I already agree with."

I think the point was the use of lawsuits for what is effectively extortion and partly bullying. The legal process should have a mechanism such that a case can be reviewed for frivolousness before it costs the defendant a cent. There should also be an automatic fine or other penalties for cases deemed frivolous under such a system as a means of discouraging people (especially lawyers) from submitting them unless they're pretty sure they have a good case.

Did you actually read the complaint?!

[glassesmonkey]

This isn't a lawsuit over spam or CAN-SPAM. This OSU student contacted mulitple ISPs of the ATRIKS folks and...
* called the President a "criminal"
* stated that his "personal mission is to stop ATRIKS whenever he can"
* called them a "notorious spam gang"

So if he can't argue that the president is not in fact a criminal, he is in trouble. The spam gang thing, well that probably passes legal muster.
Let this be a lesson to those writting to abuse@some-isp.net. Keep it civil.