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Is IRC All Bad?
An anonymous reader writes "IRC is often portrayed by the media as a haven for illegal activity. The author of IRC Hacks set out to find whether or not this was true. His conclusions are quite alarming, suggesting that 99.9% of IRC usage is illegal although he backs up IRC by saying that it is also used for lots of constructive purposes and is used by open source software developers." Update: 01/21 05:17 GMT by P : The author claimed it was merely 99.9% of traffic "to the top 60 channels" that is illegal, not 99.9% of all IRC traffic.
99.9% is an entirely sensationalized number. It means nothing. If you actually read through, he's claiming 99.9% of the top 60 public channels on IRC are largely illegal behavior. That's not 99.9% of IRC. The warez related channels are large, and there are many people who use IRC just for that. But there are many people who actually use IRC for the purpose it was intended, to chat.
I'm an oper on efnet, so I'm well aware of the fact illegal activity goes on on IRC. Depending on the illegal activity, we can and do take action. We regularly remove drone runners, hacked bots (drones or XDCC), spammers, and other malicious users. Do we actively pursue copyright infringers? Not generally. Besides the fact there's simply too many of them, they're generally not harming our network or each other so they're a low priority.
Me? I use IRC for chat primarily, and most people I know do the same.
He goes searching for warez (using four keywords related to popular software) and when he finds it he declares 99.9% of IRC usage is illegal? What about the linux support, gaming forums, etc... and there have to still be people that use IRC for plain old chat. I think these numbers are a bit misleading.
This is interesting, if not completely scientific.
First of all, the author asserts, "Based on [statistics extrapolated from the arbitrary] keywords being monitored, 99.9% of IRC traffic to the top 60 channels is "illegal"
Which is arbitrary but interesting. I bet he might get different statistics if he monitored keywords unrelated to popular software programs. Or if non "top 60 channels" were monitored. Or if some more specific traffic-based analysis was carried out (cut messages by bots, etc).
Secondly, and this is a place where he doesn't go, is IRC an encourager of illegal activity or just an outlet for it (i.e. if all IRC servers quit today, would all the illegal activity just shift to other parts of the 'net?)-- it's probably somewhere in the middle, but where, exactly? In other words, what does his study imply?
I'd love to see more analysis on this.
Where I work uses IRC for internal communications. Channels for support, engineering, sales, etc. We'd go nuts without it.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
a private place for friends to chat and idle. If wetake MSN for example the percentage of bandwidth going to file transfering is going to be massaive compared to text messages. Think of it this way.
1 message = 1-10kb
1 movie file = 900mb (30 minutes = 200 mb so I'm assuming a movie is about that)
Now then, I have to sent 1024 messages to make 1/900 or 1/90 of that same thing. So any way you look at it, you will still end up with "broadband is faster then my fingers."
IRC is just free speech in a free place, it can be abused just as any where else can. I'm sure theres alot of child pornography on IRC, but I'm also sure theres alot of it being handed to "clients" in McDonalds and coffee shops. It's how the world works, only it's hidden better in that case.
I like muppets.
IRC also works as a great source of entertainment without being illegal as shown at http://bash.org/
Is everybody forgetting the instant help people get from IRC channels? Look around. You've got official IRC channels for almost every distro of Linux. Got a problem? Pop in and ask a question. There will almost always be someone there to help you.
I idle on an IRC network where I've known the members for several years now. Yes, I will probably never meet them in real, but you have a sense of community. Is it illegal to have a sense of community?
I disdain most chat applications, however I actually have to use IRC to communicate with co-workers several hundred feet away from me at work. It's actually very efficient, and it's the only thing I ever use it for.
Actually it's 99.9% of the "top 60 channels".
.06th of a channel?
Which leads one to wonder:
how does one have
If the files themselves are not transfered over IRC, then how are any of the discussions illegal? I the address off a copyrighted file illegal? Is discussion illegal? Is this reply to your message illegal?
-- these are only opinions and they might not be mine.
I work as a systems engineer for a large internet service provider in western pa, and I use IRC everyday to chat to co-workers and other admins / engineers for various ISP's all around the country. Ever have a problem with a radius box that you're using to do dial-up authentication? IRC is just about the only place left that you can find people who'll know what the hell your talking about... It's a great place to bounce ideas off of other like-minded / like-employeed people. The other day for example I talked who just took over abuse duties for an ISP in Canada, shared some of my tips and tricks...
So 99% of IRC traffic is bad? Maybe the bandwidth, because text doesn't use much at all... But I would argue there are many that are using it for legit purposes!
The first time I user IRC on the VAX/VMS in 1989, I ended up talking to a young man in Berlin who told me the Berlin Wall was going to come down three days before CNN knew about it.
Every spare minute I had between class, I spent asking what he thought would happen, heard he was scared because the doubts of what would happen next and felt REAL glad I stumbled on IRC while most everyone else was using it to try and scam a date.
Knowing that something like this tool was able to bring people together across the world for such a world changing event just made me feel unbelievably privileged.
And I beat CNN with the news. Thanksgiving just meant more that year.
- Zav - Imagine a Beowulf cluster of insensitive clods...
Hihi
On friday/saturday nights I run a karaoke show where I stream video live over the internet
I just stretch a bx client across the bottom of the screen, and let folks on the net hang out in a chatroom. What they say in the chatroom, goes up on the screen right below the lyrics for the singers to read.
Sometimes we get jerks in there. Our #1 rule is no heckling the singers. We figure it takes guts to get up on stage and sing in front of the world, so we try to take care of our singers.
Luckily, I have a lot of good people watching it for me. The occasional bad comment slips through, but part of the fun is in the banning.
No warez, none of that junk. Just a cool place.
irc.landoleet.org #karaoke
www.7bamboo.com
I've been using IRC since 96 and I have quite a circle of friends who I keep in contact with over IRC on private channels. From my home town of 8000 there are around 800 IRC users who just use IRC to keep in touch and find out where the party is at, etc...
/list or in a /whois. The only way you could gather stats on these users is to sniff the traffic of the server. The legit chat channels are usually +s because you don't want to be overrun by newbies or 1337 kiddies.
It's also use it for illegal stuff too, like finding weed... (Most people already know who they are dealing with)
Most of the legit chat is going on in private channels that a circle of friends inhabit that will never show up on
MSN has put a big dent in the number of new IRCers, a few years ago IRC was growing big time but then people started to switch to MSN and the newbies followed likeing the simpler(?) interface.
Warez, MP3's and movies have moved off IRC for the most part and onto the p2p networks for the masses. Its only a few 1000 kids left running xdcc bots and fservs. Then you have the release groups who you will never meet on IRC unless you know someone. I'd have to guess there are a few IRC servers only accessable over SSH where the real big shit is going down.
God, root, what is the difference?
That wouldn't get him a Doctorate at Hamburger U. :P
Really, this article makes me mad. Big time.
I have met too many cool people through IRC who have become real life buddies to see IRC as what this dumbass says it is. I know for a fact IRC has saved one life that I know of...one of my chat buddies sent a suicide note via email and between the rest of the regulars in the channel I was a regular on we were able to get paramedics from her town there at her doorstep in time to save her.
Note well: I abandoned EFNet, Undernet and DALnet a long time ago, when they became almost unusable. There are little networks around now where the *real* IRC lives. You probably don't know them, and that's OK...they'd rather be left alone, far from the crapflooders and the warez kiddies and the skript kiddies and the rest of the miscellaneous lamers who make the big nets a living hell. They'd rather be hanging out in cyberspace together in their little cybernetic communities.
I suppose of the big nets freenode.net is still quite friendly. I suggest if you are associated with a LUG get your feet wet in your LUG's chat channel.
IRC used to be fun. It still is when it's among friends. I suppose it's the tragedy of the commons. Let too many people loose in one place and the worst comes out.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
The chatroom usually has around 100-150 people, except for when the The Screen Savers is taped live every day at 4PM PST where the room spikes at 300-400 people. Users in the chatroom interact with the hosts on live TV and the live show incorporate user comments from the channel.
I'd say we definitely make good use, legal and positive, of IRC!
From the article:
This is misleading nonsense because IRC is a protocol, not a community. There are hundreds or thousands of IRC networks out there, including a few big ones. IRC is a number of big cities plus lots of small towns. I happen to frequent this nice small town where people are mostly friendly, children are welcome, and warez and sex channels are forbidden (this is enforced). Just goes to show that the article is one big misleading generalization with sensationalism as its only purpose.
Everytime an article like this appears saying "IRC is bad, mmmkay" I find it funny how that largest network in the world is almost never mentioned, almost like it's not a *real* IRC network.
u akeNet&point=years That looks more like a constant growth rate to me and thats real users, not large bot nets. They even analyse the user base client versions (http://www.quakenet.org/news.php?item=190) and bots make up a very very small percentage.
....
In my mind, DALnet is one of the networks that accually has one of the lowest noise ratios around. Quakenet, the current leader in usercount, raises questions with me. Their usercount rose very fast, and I wonder about their userbase. I personally know only -one- person who uses quakenet. You mention DALnet, Undernet or EFnet and people identify much more readily.
People seem to forget QuakeNet has always had a no warez, pr0n or other real IRC content policy years before DalNET or others did the same. It was started by a few Gamers who wanted someone stable to chat without netsplits caused by the latest kiddie attacks. Most small networks start this way.
QuakeNet has hardly grown "very fast" as the stats show: http://irc.netsplit.de/networks/details.php?net=Q
Sure DALnet, Undernet or EFnet get all the notarity but a simple policy of creating a safe, clean IRC network where people can actually chat actually seems to be more popular.
Go figure
I'm sure you'd like to point us out how is "IRC usage" illegal? You're not trading on the IRC server itself files. The thing most warez servers are doing is to dump their traffic log via a (ro)bot to the specific irc channel. I don't see how's that illegal. Sure it generates more IRC traffic than any other channels, except for example trivia ones, but it's not illegal in any ways.
It can breach the IRC network's terms of usage where "warez" channels are prohibited, but breaking those rules are not a crime just an offense which can result in the removal of your priviledges to use that given server/network.
On a sidenote i would mention that downloading music or mp3 in my country is PERFECTLY legal, if you're downloading it for home usage, as, not making replicas of it on cd etc. The one who commits the crime here is the uploader. There is one exception though, software, where if you download pirated software you can be accused of breaking the law. I just wanted to point out that IRC is international and not only US law applies to it.
It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
Be yourself no matter what they say