Posted by
CowboyNeal
on from the under-the-hood dept.
jgwong writes "Korg's newest keyboard, called OASYS, will run Linux with a propietary software developed by themselves. With a 10.4" touchscreen, CD burner and 16-track HD audio recording this looks pretty neat. No information about availability or price, though."
GPL keyboard ?
by
thej1nx
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
Hmm concidering that they have proprietary software being commercially distributed, coupled up with Linux.. will they or won't they be bound by GPL to release the code for it ?
Hmm concidering that they have proprietary software being commercially distributed, coupled up with Linux.. will they or won't they be bound by GPL to release the code for it?
With the number of open source-friendly folks on Slashdot, it amazes me how often this question turns up in comments. You'd think/. crowd knows what the GPL is, and that most readers would have some basic knowledge about the GPL (and thus, be able to answer above question for themselves).
Never read a single copy of the GPL ?!? Just trolling around? Too lazy to go to GNU.org, and check it out?
-- How we know is more important than what we know.
Re:Is this really in the spirit of the GPL?
by
Aneurysm9
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
Is there something we can do about this?
Yes! Celebrate! If they have made changes to the kernel they will have to release them and, hopefully, there will be something of benefit to other Linux audio projects in there. Even if they didn't make any changes, it is a major pro-audio component maker embracing Linux. We need more pro-audio software and hardware support for Linux. I hate it that I have to use Windoze to do postprocessing on recordings that I make, there's no reason Linux can't support VST plugins and (usable) low latency audio.
-- There was Cowboy Neal at the wheel of a bus to never-ever land.
Re:All well and good...
by
Rares+Marian
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
It's great that everyone thinks this is such a simple mistake nowadays but back when Milli Vanilli did it the backlash resulted in a suicide.
-- The message on the other side of this sig is false.
Doomed to Fail
by
copponex
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
I work at a pro audio store, and I can tell already that this thing is doomed to fail. I remember someone trying to get us to resell a dual opteron with Windows XP integrated into a keyboard. It was awkward and too expensive for the $4500 price tag it commanded.
Modularity is much more popular in recording studios. Buy a Mac Mini and an MBox, and you've still got $3,000 to spend on good mics, a good channel strip, and a decent keyboard controller with MIDI triggered sound collections. Plus you've got a real interface with a decent screen size, without the "benefit" of being locked into a dead-end all-in-one solution. That's why Pro Tools HD systems and Apple Logic Pro setups are in 90% of the studios instead of crappy Roland workstations or Mackie d8bs.
Re:All well and good...
by
BagOBones
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
It's one think to pre record your own work and act it out live. It's another when you have two models out there faking it up to someone elses work.
I remember back i nthe ancient 1980s, when a cheezy ass sampler (by todays standards) cost $2000+. In Reason, which costs about $400, you can fill an entire virtual rack with samplers far in excess of what availed then. you want 11 samplers stacked? If you had $25,000 - SURE. In Reason, when you're done, you simply open up a new blank Rack, and fill it with more/other goodies from the drop down menu. Back then, you'd have to sell all those samplers...
It comes with drum machines, samplers, processors, mixers, synthesizers of several different stripes, and on and on.
This, in combination with Reason, offers truly terrifying amounts of musical development and creativity. Recently, Live was upgraded to include MIDI, and a basic drum machine, so now it is even more deadly as a combo with Reason. Live is a Loop based compositional system, but with its new MIDI capabilities, it is now a much more powerful beast. It costs about $350, IIRC.
This, in combination with Live and Reason, makes ANYTHING coming out of Korg pretty much superfluous. With Live and Reason, you have composition systems and tonnes of "Gear". With Max/MSP you make your own gear, and it can be just as weird as you want it to be. Max/MSP isn't a synth, it's a software development environment that resembles an evil cross between Visual Basic and tinkertoys. It's available on Mac and (finally) Windows, and it totally fuckin' rocks. If you wondered how freeks like Autechre makes all that jiggety noise, look no further than:
Max/MSP.
so, lets run some totals:
My guess is the Oasys will likely come in around at a $2500 price point.
I often shop at Musicians Friend so my prices are from there as of today, Jan 20th. They aren't the best, or the worst. It's just a data point.
Reason: on sale: $199
Ableton Live: $399
Max/MSP with Jitter (video libraries): $799
Edirol PCRA-30 keyboard with Audio In: $299
And a computer I found at PC MALL - an IBM Thinkpad:
Intel P4, 2.8GHz processor, 256MB RAM, 40GB Hard Drive, CD-RW/DVD Combo drive,15" XGA Display, XP-Pro, etc.
Which has PLENTY of power for audio. and it's on sale for $1,198.
So, throw in another hundred bucks for a kbd stand and what not and the total is around:
$2900
Which is probably a bit more than the OASYS will sell for. Since Max/MSP is for Advanced User GEEKS, and Jitter is even geekier, cut the $799 out and you have an entire electronic music studio that KICKS ASS for about $2200.
...for a system that will totally thrash the OASYS up and down the street. Cheerfully.
Now: will your system CRASH? Yes. Will the OASYS? Probably not. If you're worried about that, then get a Powerbook or a Linux Book or whatever-the-fuck-book that flips your crank. They don't Blue Screen as much as Windoze box, but there are other issues involved. All in all, unless you're planning to spend a lot of time on stage, you're better off with the compter based system.
In a few years you will have run through most of what the OASYS does. In a few years... I *shudder* to think what Reason and Live will be like...
Basically Hardware Synth manufactueres are doomed. The only ones who will survive are the ones making the uber-geek analogue gear, and they will basically be little more than boutique operations for purists.
RS
-- Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
Re:This is not unexpected News
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
dude, all due respect you're pretty full of bs.
firstly the sounds coming out of each keyboard or synth are unique because of the signal paths, d/a converters that are in them. So just because my nord rack 2x has certain features, doesnt mean that great emulations of it such as discovery are going to sound quite the same.
Then you have customised interface, most of the real musicians i know don't like to click mouses around and even with dedicated controllers that can control most software, you will not get the same experience as a keyboard with a control panel laid out for its optimal use.
On top of that you have analogue!! No software will ever sound exactly the same as my Alesis Andromeda or a minimoog because analogue digital kapiche?
What's more is hybrid analogue and digital synths like the Waldorf Q+ which has a digital oscillators and envelopes etc but with real analogue filters.
The part where you really missed the point was where you forgot about the musician who likes to take one single item to the live recording, or gig and it happens to be the same single unit that the music was created and recorded on.
Looking back
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 1, Insightful
That was a cheap shot, and quite nearsighted. Worthy of a Troll.
Bear with me folks, it's long winded.
As a musician for 25 years I won't argue that Mac is the defacto platform for professional digital audio processing. It's been that way since the first Apple Macintosh hit the market. Ten years ago was not the time for a professional musician to use a Wintel platform. It was best to use a Mac, even in the amateur circles. In 1995, Micro$oft released an operating system that had some potential, but like anything new from this company, the platform was plagued with issues ranging from incompatibility with audio hardware, poor ports of applications and buggy programs by independent and well meaning and well motivated programmers to make useful software. Much like it is today. While it wasn't paradise, every year saw improvement both in hardware and software.
Many things changed when ProTools was ported to Windoze. HOORAY! Wintel had a platform that was acceptible to Digidesign. Hail the inexpensive digital studio. But it wasn't just in LA or Seattle recording studios. Now, Mr. Grunge Rocker could actually afford the hardware and software for the garage rather than pay an engineer for the time to use thier studio. It was by no means perfect, it worked when the OS didn't crash. Yet again, every year got better hardware and better software (yes, even Winslows). The key here is that a choice finally existed. Decisions began to be based on budget.
Today, most of the hardware that ProTools and many other digital audio platforms use is compatible with both Mac and Winblows. In fact, much of the hardware is designed with Winhose in mind. The bonus is that the OS is a lot more stable than ten years ago. Not 100% perfect when used for other applications, but if recording, mixing and mastering is all the system is used for, the price point cannot be beat, and the stability is for all purposes perfect. Thus the Wintel architecture is used in professional and home studios all over the world today. Few are going to buy a Mac then recording hardware and software to put it all together when they can shave a few hundred off the bottom line by buying a comparible PC platform. Budgets are such a concern that many choose to use digital recording consoles over PCs and Macs. Less options, fewer upgrade choices but inexpensive in comparison.
In the case of computers, it is a market driven economy. There will always be the need for more tracks, better signal processing new features. This is why companies like Digidesign and Steinberg develop for the Win32 platform. Yes, the cream of the crop is still on Mac but not ONLY on Mac. Such is the state of today.
Speaking from experience, this is where I took my foray into the digital realm in the home. I am not an electronic musician, though I occasionaly use sequencers and samplers. I play real strings on real frets, with real, live drums and cymbals. Everything is miked. I use ProTools and Cubase on Windoze. Why? Because it's affordable and I don't have to pay the recording studio a fortune to get a good recording.
This all happened in the last ten years. But what about the next ten years? Since we're on the subject of Korg, let's start there.
If Korg's innovation is to continue, they, like anyone else, has to find creative ways to develop products. Both Micro$oft and Apple would have huge licencing fees for embedded operating systems. Both would be too bloated for what is needed. What we're talking about here is the need for instruments to have extremely low latency times and do very specific functions. No eye candy involved. It has to work when the stage lights come up or the click track starts. Korg is a respected company in the music industry. I have used many of their products in the last 20 years. I still own an M1 and my Triton rackmount still gets heavy usage with my guitar synth. This is a company that has a reputation to uphold and if they think that Linux is the answer I won't even question why. IMHO, if anything it VALIDATES *
Because this thing really does "just work": you plug it in and all the keyboard and all the computer functionality is there.
Your Powerbook requires software installation, interface cables, multiple power connectors, a separate stand to hold the powerbook, probably a laptop security cable (so it doesn't get snarfed), software installation, and all the other complexities that come with running a general purpose laptop.
It's cool, it's geeky, but that does not make it worth the cash, especially if I'm just worried about getting things done.
No, the "geeky" thing to do is to become a computer operator in order to play the keyboard. For getting things done, solutions that work out of the box with no fiddling are the better choice.
Re:Beowulf?
by
kurzweilfreak
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
Exciting would be something like mLAN on the Yamaha MotifES, kurzweil KSP8, or other equipment. mLan is poised to be the next MIDI, if only Yamaha would get it working as they promised it eventually would: Audio and MIDI, all devices connected and working together over one Firewire cable. Anyone other musicians have any thoughts on mLAN?
Slashdot Mirror
Or will they skip on providing any CDs ?
I believe this is another good reason to RTFA.
How we know is more important than what we know.
Yes! Celebrate! If they have made changes to the kernel they will have to release them and, hopefully, there will be something of benefit to other Linux audio projects in there. Even if they didn't make any changes, it is a major pro-audio component maker embracing Linux. We need more pro-audio software and hardware support for Linux. I hate it that I have to use Windoze to do postprocessing on recordings that I make, there's no reason Linux can't support VST plugins and (usable) low latency audio.
There was Cowboy Neal at the wheel of a bus to never-ever land.
It's great that everyone thinks this is such a simple mistake nowadays but back when Milli Vanilli did it the backlash resulted in a suicide.
The message on the other side of this sig is false.
I work at a pro audio store, and I can tell already that this thing is doomed to fail. I remember someone trying to get us to resell a dual opteron with Windows XP integrated into a keyboard. It was awkward and too expensive for the $4500 price tag it commanded.
Modularity is much more popular in recording studios. Buy a Mac Mini and an MBox, and you've still got $3,000 to spend on good mics, a good channel strip, and a decent keyboard controller with MIDI triggered sound collections. Plus you've got a real interface with a decent screen size, without the "benefit" of being locked into a dead-end all-in-one solution. That's why Pro Tools HD systems and Apple Logic Pro setups are in 90% of the studios instead of crappy Roland workstations or Mackie d8bs.
It's one think to pre record your own work and act it out live. It's another when you have two models out there faking it up to someone elses work.
link
EA David Gardner -"... but the consumers have proven that actually what they want is fun."
Basically, the Keyboard People are fucked.
Strike that. They are FUCKED.
Why? As one poster noted above: Software.
Software synthesis already outstrips most anything you can do in a keyboard, and at a much lower cost.
Exhibit A:
REASON
I remember back i nthe ancient 1980s, when a cheezy ass sampler (by todays standards) cost $2000+. In Reason, which costs about $400, you can fill an entire virtual rack with samplers far in excess of what availed then. you want 11 samplers stacked? If you had $25,000 - SURE. In Reason, when you're done, you simply open up a new blank Rack, and fill it with more/other goodies from the drop down menu. Back then, you'd have to sell all those samplers...
It comes with drum machines, samplers, processors, mixers, synthesizers of several different stripes, and on and on.
Second Exhibit: ABLETON LIVE
This, in combination with Reason, offers truly terrifying amounts of musical development and creativity. Recently, Live was upgraded to include MIDI, and a basic drum machine, so now it is even more deadly as a combo with Reason. Live is a Loop based compositional system, but with its new MIDI capabilities, it is now a much more powerful beast. It costs about $350, IIRC.
Exhibit Three: Max/MSP
This, in combination with Live and Reason, makes ANYTHING coming out of Korg pretty much superfluous. With Live and Reason, you have composition systems and tonnes of "Gear". With Max/MSP you make your own gear, and it can be just as weird as you want it to be. Max/MSP isn't a synth, it's a software development environment that resembles an evil cross between Visual Basic and tinkertoys. It's available on Mac and (finally) Windows, and it totally fuckin' rocks. If you wondered how freeks like Autechre makes all that jiggety noise, look no further than:
Max/MSP.
so, lets run some totals:
My guess is the Oasys will likely come in around at a $2500 price point.
I often shop at Musicians Friend so my prices are from there as of today, Jan 20th. They aren't the best, or the worst. It's just a data point.
Reason: on sale: $199
Ableton Live: $399
Max/MSP with Jitter (video libraries): $799
Edirol PCRA-30 keyboard with Audio In: $299
And a computer I found at PC MALL - an IBM Thinkpad:
Intel P4, 2.8GHz processor, 256MB RAM, 40GB Hard Drive, CD-RW/DVD Combo drive,15" XGA Display, XP-Pro, etc.
Which has PLENTY of power for audio. and it's on sale for $1,198.
So, throw in another hundred bucks for a kbd stand and what not and the total is around:
$2900
Which is probably a bit more than the OASYS will sell for. Since Max/MSP is for Advanced User GEEKS, and Jitter is even geekier, cut the $799 out and you have an entire electronic music studio that KICKS ASS for about $2200.
Now: will your system CRASH? Yes. Will the OASYS? Probably not. If you're worried about that, then get a Powerbook or a Linux Book or whatever-the-fuck-book that flips your crank. They don't Blue Screen as much as Windoze box, but there are other issues involved. All in all, unless you're planning to spend a lot of time on stage, you're better off with the compter based system.
In a few years you will have run through most of what the OASYS does. In a few years... I *shudder* to think what Reason and Live will be like...
Basically Hardware Synth manufactueres are doomed. The only ones who will survive are the ones making the uber-geek analogue gear, and they will basically be little more than boutique operations for purists.
RS
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
That was a cheap shot, and quite nearsighted. Worthy of a Troll.
Bear with me folks, it's long winded.
As a musician for 25 years I won't argue that Mac is the defacto platform for professional digital audio processing. It's been that way since the first Apple Macintosh hit the market. Ten years ago was not the time for a professional musician to use a Wintel platform. It was best to use a Mac, even in the amateur circles. In 1995, Micro$oft released an operating system that had some potential, but like anything new from this company, the platform was plagued with issues ranging from incompatibility with audio hardware, poor ports of applications and buggy programs by independent and well meaning and well motivated programmers to make useful software. Much like it is today. While it wasn't paradise, every year saw improvement both in hardware and software.
Many things changed when ProTools was ported to Windoze. HOORAY! Wintel had a platform that was acceptible to Digidesign. Hail the inexpensive digital studio. But it wasn't just in LA or Seattle recording studios. Now, Mr. Grunge Rocker could actually afford the hardware and software for the garage rather than pay an engineer for the time to use thier studio. It was by no means perfect, it worked when the OS didn't crash. Yet again, every year got better hardware and better software (yes, even Winslows). The key here is that a choice finally existed. Decisions began to be based on budget.
Today, most of the hardware that ProTools and many other digital audio platforms use is compatible with both Mac and Winblows. In fact, much of the hardware is designed with Winhose in mind. The bonus is that the OS is a lot more stable than ten years ago. Not 100% perfect when used for other applications, but if recording, mixing and mastering is all the system is used for, the price point cannot be beat, and the stability is for all purposes perfect. Thus the Wintel architecture is used in professional and home studios all over the world today. Few are going to buy a Mac then recording hardware and software to put it all together when they can shave a few hundred off the bottom line by buying a comparible PC platform. Budgets are such a concern that many choose to use digital recording consoles over PCs and Macs. Less options, fewer upgrade choices but inexpensive in comparison.
In the case of computers, it is a market driven economy. There will always be the need for more tracks, better signal processing new features. This is why companies like Digidesign and Steinberg develop for the Win32 platform. Yes, the cream of the crop is still on Mac but not ONLY on Mac. Such is the state of today.
Speaking from experience, this is where I took my foray into the digital realm in the home. I am not an electronic musician, though I occasionaly use sequencers and samplers. I play real strings on real frets, with real, live drums and cymbals. Everything is miked. I use ProTools and Cubase on Windoze. Why? Because it's affordable and I don't have to pay the recording studio a fortune to get a good recording.
This all happened in the last ten years. But what about the next ten years? Since we're on the subject of Korg, let's start there.
If Korg's innovation is to continue, they, like anyone else, has to find creative ways to develop products. Both Micro$oft and Apple would have huge licencing fees for embedded operating systems. Both would be too bloated for what is needed. What we're talking about here is the need for instruments to have extremely low latency times and do very specific functions. No eye candy involved. It has to work when the stage lights come up or the click track starts. Korg is a respected company in the music industry. I have used many of their products in the last 20 years. I still own an M1 and my Triton rackmount still gets heavy usage with my guitar synth. This is a company that has a reputation to uphold and if they think that Linux is the answer I won't even question why. IMHO, if anything it VALIDATES *
Because this thing really does "just work": you plug it in and all the keyboard and all the computer functionality is there.
Your Powerbook requires software installation, interface cables, multiple power connectors, a separate stand to hold the powerbook, probably a laptop security cable (so it doesn't get snarfed), software installation, and all the other complexities that come with running a general purpose laptop.
It's cool, it's geeky, but that does not make it worth the cash, especially if I'm just worried about getting things done.
No, the "geeky" thing to do is to become a computer operator in order to play the keyboard. For getting things done, solutions that work out of the box with no fiddling are the better choice.
Exciting would be something like mLAN on the Yamaha MotifES, kurzweil KSP8, or other equipment. mLan is poised to be the next MIDI, if only Yamaha would get it working as they promised it eventually would: Audio and MIDI, all devices connected and working together over one Firewire cable. Anyone other musicians have any thoughts on mLAN?
kurzweil_freak
5th Kyu Genbukan Ninpo/KJJR student
Be the darkness that allows the light to shine.