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Open 3D Scientific Visualization Toolkit

Mark Leaman writes "The Science Museum of Minnesota has just announced an online community site for scientific visualization, including thier Open 3D Visualization Toolkit that includes Blender and the GIMP as part of the core development tools. Frustrated with a lack of consolidated resources and discussion about open-source, scientific visualization development tools, the Science Museum of Minnesota's Learning Technologies Department decided to develop their own."

97 comments

  1. K-POW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Take that, photoshop @ windows!

    1. Re:K-POW by schestowitz · · Score: 1

      GIMP kicks Photoshop's ass... or so I thought until I found http://www.humandescent.com/.

      --
      My Linux - (L)ove (I)s (N)ever (U)tterly eXPensive
    2. Re:K-POW by l3v1 · · Score: 1

      That doesn't work [i.e. your "argument"]. We're talking about visualization tools here. For example, few weeks back I needed a way to visually represent 2D+1D motion (being 2D+time) in a good and usable way and ended up with coding my own visualization tool with OpenGL which suits my needs now. Why ? 'Cause I didnt' find a tool to do it with in a few hours (beign quite well at home both in linux and windows development and graphical tools also). So I understand their way of going.

      --
      I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
    3. Re:K-POW by HardeH · · Score: 3, Informative

      Maybe you should give VTK, OpenDX, VisIT or Paraview a try, all of which are just some of the scientific visualisation community's tools of choice (and hey, they're OSS, mostly cross-platform as well).

    4. Re:K-POW by SharpFang · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      Gimp doesn't kick Photoshop ass. Gimp is a decent substitute.
      Given choice, get a raise or have commercially licensed Photoshop installed at your workplace (not essential but useful), what would you choose?
      I choose the raise and Gimp.

      --
      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    5. Re:K-POW by schestowitz · · Score: 1

      Yes, but I used JASC Paintshop and Adobe PS for several years. GIMP appears to be more convenient tool has the power of scripting. I could use Photoshop (I have it installed in fact, as well as CorelDraw), but it ain't worth the 2 minutes of reboot to get to the Window$ partition.

      --
      My Linux - (L)ove (I)s (N)ever (U)tterly eXPensive
    6. Re:K-POW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      You should take a look at VPython -- Simplest 3-D visualization that I know of (and it runs on Windows, Mac, and Linux).

      http://www.vpython.org/

    7. Re:K-POW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Gimp doesn't kick Photoshop ass. Gimp is a decent substitute.

      Sadly true, but some of the Gimp extenssions (FilmGimp) do things better than anyone and the Gimp Tool Kit has turned out to be quite useful.

    8. Re:K-POW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      GIMP kicks Photoshop's ass... or so I thought until I found http://www.humandescent.com/.

      Holy shit, dude. Tonight's dreams will be interesting, to say the least.

    9. Re:K-POW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If a lot of people at your office use MS Paint then your office should be shut down and everyone there executed for being too stupid.

    10. Re:K-POW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "If a lot of people at your office use MS Paint then your office should be shut down and everyone there executed for being too stupid."

      immature fucks like you need a crowbar the the head.

  2. Never would have happened without govt help by Dancin_Santa · · Score: 5, Insightful

    These museums, with very few exceptions are almost purely supported with government funds. They just can't make back the cost of upkeep, much less salaries, on the few dollars they make through admission fees.

    There are a few that can make ends meet by appealing to private business, but for the most part these museums are supported with public money.

    Now the point of all this government talk is that sometimes it takes the government to do something good and worthwhile for the general public. If it were up to the private sector, such an undertaking would 1) not have been undertaken in the first place and 2) if it were developed, it wouldn't have been released as OSS.

    Hooray for these hackers! And thank god they've got an enlightened government supporting them.

    1. Re:Never would have happened without govt help by ManoMarks · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's because most universities in the U.S. at least have turned to public/private ventures and patents to bring in more revenues. This has many benefits, including placing students in nice jobs, but the downside is an increased focus on doing what the private sector wants.

      --

      That's gotta fit into your schema somewhere

    2. Re:Never would have happened without govt help by parcifal · · Score: 1

      There is actually no express need for academics to get into the Open Source Movement. In my University library, MS Windows Professional is available for $10 for installation on the staff computers, other packages are similarly priced. With big companies giving away their software to Universities, and with support options available, not many would want to work with Linux. Consequently, there is no development geared towards the Linux OS. All the professors in my department (EE) use Windows XP without exception. I guess the pressures of academic life are too much to get into the OSS way of life.

    3. Re:Never would have happened without govt help by drooling-dog · · Score: 1

      Strange. I would think that in an EE/CS academic environment, the availability of source code alone would be a compelling draw. That and the relative freedom from virii and spyware...

    4. Re:Never would have happened without govt help by siskbc · · Score: 2, Insightful
      One thing that always disappoints me is the lack of involvement of Academia in helping OSS

      Don't know what you're talking about, really. Check the sciences, almost all OSS is academic. The OSS tools I use for research were all made my students or profs or multi-university collabortations. If you mean big projects that solve non-academic problems, like spreadsheets and word processors - well, why should researchers (outside of CS people perhaps) involve themselves with that?

      --

      -Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat

    5. Re:Never would have happened without govt help by The_reformant · · Score: 1

      Actually I find the opposite with one small quantifier. There are lots..literally millions of OSS projects written and maintained by universities but they are usually very specialist. There is normaly not any research value in the big name OSS projects like OO.org, apache etc. However try doing a little survey of software for natural language programming, you'll find most of the core research is implemented through OSS projects.

      --
      I have discovered a truly remarkable sig which this post is too small to contain.
    6. Re:Never would have happened without govt help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do realize that open source does not mean "linux" right?
      Network Tools, Browsers, Office Applications, Media Players, Graphics Tools, Configuration Tools, Firewalls, Filesharing and Chat clients, Mail/Calendar applications, and yes... Linux. All of these areas could use help from professors and grad-students helping out, but it just doesn't happpen...

    7. Re:Never would have happened without govt help by phiz187 · · Score: 1

      Well if you consider it though, government funded academic projects would have to fall under the BSD license. Corporations pay taxes, which among others fund acadmeic institutions. So any work derived from their tax dollars would need to be accesible to them, and the GNU license is to encumbering for them.

      -PHiZ

      --
      Pretend I said something meaningful or insightful here.
    8. Re:Never would have happened without govt help by sp0rk173 · · Score: 1

      It's been a while since you've met a lot of CS students, hasn't it? Most are in it thinking they'll make lots and lots of money after they graduate. They don't care about software wanting to be free. They don't even like coding. This represents about 80% of the CS student body, in my experience. They're not clever problem solvers, not at all. Most hate their major. They just want a nice cushy job in corporate america so they can buy whatever BMW they want.

      The CS department at my school forces kids to use Linux in the labs. Regardless, there are seniors in CS that still use MS Visual C++ at home. I, being an environmental science major, have actually had to go help CS majors install linux on their machines, only to hear they reformatted and reinstalled windows because, "linux was too hard to learn." CS majors are not the clever little boy geniuses slashdot likes to paint them as. Those exist, but in the minority.

    9. Re:Never would have happened without govt help by sp0rk173 · · Score: 1

      Because the funding isn't there. It's sad, but Professors need to eat just as bad as students do, and they eat by getting funding.

    10. Re:Never would have happened without govt help by ottothecow · · Score: 1
      then the school really needs to do a better job convincing them that they are in the wrong major.

      If you dont enjoy your major, get out of it. What I think is really cool about schools like the University of Chicago is that they force a fairly wide spread of classes on their students and then dont let them formally declare a major until end of their sophomore year. This forces many a student to discover new things and pick something they like.

      --
      Bottles.
    11. Re:Never would have happened without govt help by sp0rk173 · · Score: 1

      Don't know what you're talking about, really. Check the sciences, almost all OSS is academic. The OSS tools I use for research were all made my students or profs or multi-university collabortations.

      Definitely. Modelling programs, algorithms, basically all scientific models are open source because they HAVE to be. You have to allow your collegues to look at your work simply because that's how science works. Where the open source disconnect occurs is in data analysis. Most sciences that aren't entirely unix-centric exist in a microsoft environment. Analysis happens in Excell. Posters are made in power point, as are research presentations. That final stage of research is (usually) done on windows because that's what most scientists and researchers know and are able to easily use. I did some research recently in the hydrologic field. I was able to do 90% of my project, if not more, on FreeBSD, however when it came to making up a poster to present, I had to use PowerPoint. Now that I know how the process works, I could probably have used The Gimp. However, I HAD to use ArcGIS becuase it was time prohibative to learn how the hell GRASS works. I think that's the main barrier from throwing off Windows in academia - all of these researchers have to keep researching, they have little or no time to learn how to use a new spreadsheet, a new graphics suite, a new GIS program (especially one as hard to use as GRASS, ugh).

      I wouldn't say that all OSS is academic, but definitely all of scientific academia follows the tenents of OSS, because that's how science works.

    12. Re:Never would have happened without govt help by sp0rk173 · · Score: 1

      I totally agree. I chose ES as a major because I'm completely and utterly facinated by natural systems. I love learning about connects and interconnects between the various spheres. Computers interest me, but only superficially, and thanks to the open source community I can teach myself a lot for free. UCR - the school I go to - does a similiar thing with it's breadth requirments. Humanities majors are supposed to take basic science classes and science majors are supposed to take basic humanities classes. There have been a few people who were just general business majors because they didn't know what thye wanted to do, who switched to ES because they really found the intro class interesting. To give the computer science department some credit, they're trying to make their intro classes harder and harder to really succeed well in (get an A or a B) to weed out the people who really don't care about it.

    13. Re:Never would have happened without govt help by drooling-dog · · Score: 1
      It's been a while since you've met a lot of CS students, hasn't it?

      Can't knock CS grads as a group, but... To be honest, the best programmers I've worked with in the past have tended to spend time in other (often unrelated) fields before getting into programming as a profession. I don't have a theory as to why that should be, however...

    14. Re:Never would have happened without govt help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I do: CS degree is a hammer looking for a nail. Go out in the world and learn that there are problems that need to be solved, then become a programmer and solve them.

    15. Re:Never would have happened without govt help by stupidfoo · · Score: 1

      These museums, with very few exceptions are almost purely supported with government funds. They just can't make back the cost of upkeep, much less salaries, on the few dollars they make through admission fees.

      That is almost entirely false, at least for the SMM. It has a yearly budget of ~$25 million. Of that, $750,000 is government money. The rest is from ticket/food/merchandise sales (roughly $20 million) and private/corporate donations (~$4 million). See here - warning PDF.

      It does use some federal money for special projects, but those usually only total $3 - $5 million each year.

    16. Re:Never would have happened without govt help by 4of12 · · Score: 1

      then the school really needs to do a better job convincing them that they are in the wrong major.

      For a very long time many students have been choosing careers in medicine for the same reason: that it is financially rewarding.

      But, having to get all A's in courses like biochemistry has usually helped to insure that only the most capable students get through the system. Not always, but it does a reasonably effective job of weeding out the less intelligent and the lazy.

      Likewise, most university CS courses have one or two weeder classes that require either some intelligence or prodigious homework/lab loads that convince those of lesser fortitude that CS is not Big Bucks Made EZ. I recall CS students having to keep their overall class load down in their junior years just because one of the courses required so much time out of class to do the lab projects.

      A university that lets lesser qualified students through the gates is doing them a disservice as employers begin to get the idea that a CS degree from University X doesn't mean much. Sure, in the short term University X collects more tuition from CS students now, but the value of the degrees they're dispensing are depreciating with time.

      Something to think about if you're majoring in CS.

      --
      "Provided by the management for your protection."
  3. Well done... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Right now they're visualising squat:

    Warning: mysql_connect(): Too many connections in /Users/silver/Sites/visualize/includes/database.my sql.inc on line 31
    Too many connections

    LOL!

    1. Re:Well done... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hehe mysql_pconnect anyone?

    2. Re:Well done... by iluvcapra · · Score: 1

      Isn't that a Mac OS X web sharing path!

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
  4. Come on, can't we have a autogenerator for VRML?! by solafide · · Score: 0, Redundant
    The 3D flat images are nice, but I want to spin it, go into it,etc. as far as I want, not a preset unchangable series of flats.

    Incedentally, there are "Warning: mysql_connect(): Too many connections in /Users/silver/Sites/visualize/includes/database.my sql.inc on line 31 Too many connections" to the database about that tool. Suppose we've \.ted it!

    Billy

  5. Hark! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Shout outs to Prairie Home Companion...that old geezer must have a long d.

  6. Too many connections by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    oops. I hope they're not using the default MySQL configuration.

  7. Artificial Intelligence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All you need for true AI is a 3d engine with physics and a large vocabulary of nouns(linked to visual objects) and verbs(actions). It would be monumental to piece together though.

    more on ai

    www.geocities.com/James_Sager2

  8. Open Data by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Where is the repository for open scientific data for visualization? The NASA website of raw data decoded from the streams sent by our probes? The USGS GPS models? CAT/MRI scan files from dead people? X-ray crystallography data from public research institutions? Their CD distro is a good start, with models from their Turkish dig site. Without data, this tool is just a toy.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:Open Data by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I know a half a dozen scientific data repositories in my field and dozens of researchers who have data on websites (including ours). I suggest you try google. Nothing you listed is in my field. One that amazes me most is that MODIS data centers. You can request raw data files that are 500MB in size. It takes up to an hour for the data to be online, but it's free and open to everyone.

    2. Re:Open Data by mz001b · · Score: 1

      A lot of data probably isn't available simply because the people who create it never think others would be interested in it. Or don't have the time to explain the format in simple terms. I do computational fluid dynamics and create terabytes of data from my simulations. Even reduced sets of this data would be quite large, so I have no where to put them.

    3. Re:Open Data by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      I Googled for MODIS, and found a lot of project sites, but not the data for download. Any URLs? Or other Google search terms?

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    4. Re:Open Data by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://www.rcsb.org/pdb/ is a repository for various biological macromolecule structures. Many funding bodies oblige scientists to submit any structures they find to it.

    5. Re:Open Data by pedroloco · · Score: 2, Informative

      As far as NASA planetary datasets go, try the Planetary Data System

      Some of the USGS topo datasets are available from the EROS Data Center. Some free datasets are available for download.

    6. Re:Open Data by davechen · · Score: 1

      You can get the Visible Human data set here:

      http://www.nlm.nih.gov/research/visible/getting_ da ta.html

    7. Re:Open Data by siskbc · · Score: 1
      Where is the repository for open scientific data for visualization? The NASA website of raw data decoded from the streams sent by our probes? The USGS GPS models? CAT/MRI scan files from dead people? X-ray crystallography data from public research institutions? Their CD distro is a good start, with models from their Turkish dig site. Without data, this tool is just a toy.

      I'd agree with the last statement - if you have data, like me, this is damned cool. If you don't, why would you need it anyway?

      --

      -Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat

    8. Re:Open Data by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      Looking at the visualizations is cool, even when it's just for fun. And all of that data that I mentioned (except maybe the CAT/MRI) belongs to the public. We just need tools, like the Internet and this toolkit, to use it.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    9. Re:Open Data by siskbc · · Score: 1
      Looking at the visualizations is cool, even when it's just for fun. And all of that data that I mentioned (except maybe the CAT/MRI) belongs to the public. We just need tools, like the Internet and this toolkit, to use it.

      Then the entire gripe is what, that you want everything to not only be open, but conveniently packaged for you?

      --

      -Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat

    10. Re:Open Data by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      I don't know if it's a "gripe", but yeah, of course I want it to be open and conveniently packaged - in an open data format, with a program to use it. What else would I want? Something hard or impossible to use? As for "everything", it's not like I asked for Exxon's seafloor soundings data, or the DoE nuclear test data.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    11. Re:Open Data by Cuchulainn · · Score: 1

      This is a bit of a disingenuous comment. When exactly should the data be put online? Straight away after is it acquired? Then where is the incentive for the scientists who acquired it? After the first few papers on the data are published? Then will it be relevant? Furthermore, data isn't always amenable to analysis without a good knowledge of the equipment that generated it (and not just the general class of equipment - often you need to know the quirks of the specific device). Additional documentation of these quirks would be a significant extra burden for the scientists involved. I'm not saying that no data should ever be opened to the public, nor that that task would be impossible, merely that the "make it open" mantra so popular on slashdot can often ignore the real problems involved in actual implementation.

    12. Re:Open Data by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      Sure your comment is disingenuous. The straight answer to your questions is "at all", or "whenever possible". For our own interests, unavailable data has much less value. And publishing it to people like Slashdotters is marketing for further funding. Not to mention that practically everyone outside the discipline generating the data is in the same position as "Slashdotters" in getting the data, though many of us can create more practical value when it's exchanged. In the past, scientists used to all learn Latin just to exchange this data. With the Internet and XML (and RFCs, and the zoo of existing standard data formats), open data should be much more common, and much less a burden.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    13. Re:Open Data by Cuchulainn · · Score: 1

      No, I meant your comment is disingenuous. But we'll stop name calling here :)

      We will never get "marketing for further funding" from openly publishing raw data. That's not a concern to the average scientist at all. We get funding by getting our data peer reviewed and published in journals and by being able to point to other scientists who are sufficiently impressed with what we do to want to collaborate with us. Bluntly, lay people are not the target for raw data. Naturally there is an obligation to share the results of reseach, especially in publicly funded areas but there are numerous ways of doing that. Frankly, I don't see the merit in just dumping raw data on the web. On the other hand, if someone were to ask me for my data and I could see that they were both genuinely interested and could actually use it then I'd have no problem sharing it (and let me be clear that academic qualifications, or lack of them, would not be a crucial point for that decision), especially if they made an effort to actually contact me to ask about it.

      Please don't think I'm trying to be snotty or argumentative with this, but I also don't see how "at all" is an answer to any of my questions - could you explain?

      A final problem with opening the data is that there is a host of proprietry data formats used in a lot of scientific research. To make it worse, there is also a tendancy for people to "roll their own" solution when trying to do something novel.

    14. Re:Open Data by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      I meant that opening the data "at all", by publishing it on websites, is a good start. Without necessarily documenting it, or converting it to a standard data format. Just put the file, or a DB CGI query, in a link. Publishing the data helps create an audience for it, especially among geeks across the world. That in turn can help raise the money that funds the research, especially when orchestrated by a good fundraiser. Of course none of that compares to peer review. But publishing the data can be a small cost in filesystem admin, and a benefit in funding, as well as just the main goal of science: increasing humanity's knowledge of "nature".

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    15. Re:Open Data by sp0rk173 · · Score: 1

      the "make it open" mantra is also very popular in science, especially academia. I was at the American Geophysicist Union meeting in San Fracisco this december, and open data was the name of the game. Infact, open data is one of the main tenents of science. More and more data is becoming open and available. The USGS make data available. As does the professor i used to work for (i'd link you, but he's in the middle of an interstate move and the server doesn't have a new domain name yet). There was a whole undergraduate research project that i helped with making hydrologic data available to anyone who wants it. Many scientists post gathered data on their project sites. It's happening, simply for the good of the community. Details about equipment are usually either included, or corrected already in the data. All of the "real problems involved in actual implementation" are usually tackled by undergrads in a basement computer lab on campus, or as government interns, or as an algorithm with real time data. It's doable and it's being done.

    16. Re:Open Data by Cuchulainn · · Score: 1

      Cool - that sounds good. Please don't think I'm against the idea of open data. However, it just sounds like it could end up being someting that becomes a requirement for funding without the necessary additional resources being given to scientists that allows them to actually continue acquiring new data. Personally, I'll freely admit to being a little biased in that the issue of open access to publications and peer-reviewed articles seems a much more pressing issue and something that, in a much shorter term, could materially increase the effectiveness of research.

    17. Re:Open Data by siskbc · · Score: 1
      I don't know if it's a "gripe", but yeah, of course I want it to be open and conveniently packaged - in an open data format, with a program to use it. What else would I want? Something hard or impossible to use? As for "everything", it's not like I asked for Exxon's seafloor soundings data, or the DoE nuclear test data.

      These are unrelated programs you're asking for. You want a toolkit developed by one school to work with a database from another organization. As someone who works woth data, that ain't going to happen. I mean, what, you think all databases in the world should be the same format? That's ridiculous. And if you think there's a reason these disparate products should work together, do it yourself. Actually contribute something to the community instead of complaining.

      As for an open data format, how about some comma-delimited ASCII for you?

      --

      -Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat

    18. Re:Open Data by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      How long have you been working with your data? I've seen data formats come and go in my 28 years in computing, mostly "come" - not so much "go". And converters stick around, too. If you're content with your proprietary data ghetto, I envy you. I'm one who likes mungers, and even stomachs XML for exactly this kind of cross-app data transfer. My world is getting better, while the proprietary data world is staying the same.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    19. Re:Open Data by siskbc · · Score: 1
      How long have you been working with your data? I've seen data formats come and go in my 28 years in computing, mostly "come" - not so much "go". And converters stick around, too. If you're content with your proprietary data ghetto, I envy you. I'm one who likes mungers, and even stomachs XML for exactly this kind of cross-app data transfer. My world is getting better, while the proprietary data world is staying the same.

      Don't know what your point is - my "proprietary format" is ASCII. Don't think that's come OR gone in a lot longer than your 28 years.

      Glad your world is getting better, but that still has nothing to do with expecting people who perform a free public service to additionally do your work for you. And it still has nothing to do with expecting all data and all programs to natively interact. Even if they all used open formats - or even your lovely XML - it wouldn't be exactly the same format and would certainly require a translator. Even if they were all ASCII, they might have headers that need stripping, for one example.

      So ultimately, if you want to put data and analysis tools together that weren't meant for each other, some work will actually be required on your part.

      --

      -Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat

  9. Re:Come on, can't we have a autogenerator for VRML by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    mod modded you redundant because it took you so long to notice the /.ing, but anyways VRML is a proprietary, closed model owned by the likes of sony this is about open source tools and methods...
    What you Meant to ask for was a .sumo file

  10. Not the only one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative
    Frustrated with a lack of consolidated resources and discussion about open-source, scientific visualization development tools

    This the point where I remind people of OpenDX, which is the open sourced IBM Visualization Data Explorer. DX used to be an extremely expensive commercial product, but it's been open source for a couple of years now.

    It's very good. If you're into scientific visualization it's worth examining.

    1. Re:Not the only one by rco3 · · Score: 1

      I started trying to use OpenDX, and immediately found that it wouldn't import 16-bit grayscale images. If you know of a way to get around that, I'd be interested in hearing about it. Otherwise, it's useless to me.

      --

      Ce n'est pas un vrai mouvement de robot!
    2. Re:Not the only one by rco3 · · Score: 1

      Of course, for the same reasons, the Gimp is also useless to me. [shrug]

      --

      Ce n'est pas un vrai mouvement de robot!
  11. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  12. VTK? by winterlens · · Score: 1

    There are toolkits available for 3D visualization that are open source. I used a couple for some work in a seminar a year or so ago. http://www.vtk.org and http://www.itk.org (owned, pretty obviously, by the same people). Their principle application has been in medical work, but I used the segmentation and registration data to begin some work on tracking torsos in video.

  13. Re:Come on, can't we have a autogenerator for VRML by deepsky · · Score: 2, Informative
    > VRML is a proprietary, closed model

    Proprietary? VRML is an ISO/IEC standard.

  14. thier by realkiwi · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Does it have a spell checker too?

    --
    realkiwi
  15. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  16. GIMP kicks Photoshop... by nurb432 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Until you wake up and have to do graphics for a *living*.. Not just simple hobby stuff at home.

    Don't get me wrong, GIMP can do nice things, but it does not replace photoshop for professional production work.

    Will it someday ? Who knows.. just not today.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    1. Re:GIMP kicks Photoshop... by lxs · · Score: 3, Funny

      I suggest that they just rename it to GINP (GINP Is Not Photoshop) and end this discussion once and for all.

    2. Re:GIMP kicks Photoshop... by bbc · · Score: 1

      " Until you wake up and have to do graphics for a *living*.. Not just simple hobby stuff at home.

      Don't get me wrong, GIMP can do nice things, but it does not replace photoshop for professional production work.
      "

      I am a professional web-developer, and I use the GIMP professionally. Photoshop (and/or Imageready) has never been very well suited to web imagery.

      Last week I was working on-site at a customer's. The customer was willing to install the GIMP for me, but I told him to not bother, as he had Photoshop installed already. I figured a long time had passed since PS 5.5, and the program simply could not be so horrid anymore in the web graphics department.

      Workflow was a bit slower due to missing functionality, but the functions may have been there with me unable to find them. It wasn't bad.

      However it seems that PS 7 (which a lot of "professionals" still use) changes colour values when you save as PNG. For some reasons, the graphical elements that I was slicing from the original graphical designs came out the wrong colour when saved as PNG.

      So now I am working on a Sunday evening, with my trusty GIMP of course, to repair a job that Photoshop couldn't do.

      When you say program A is better than program B, or when you refute that claim, make damn sure you mention about which areas you are talking about.

    3. Re:GIMP kicks Photoshop... by 5cameron · · Score: 1
      I doubt many people on here would consider doing graphics for a living "waking up."

      we designers can be so snooty sometimes ;)

    4. Re:GIMP kicks Photoshop... by famebait · · Score: 1

      No need. We already have "Gimp Is Mock Photoshop".

      --
      sudo ergo sum
  17. Blender is not a Sci Viz tool, but these are... by hawkstone · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Sorry, but I fail to see what Blender and the GIMP have to do with real scientific visualization. Blender is for 3D modelling, and the GIMP is for image processing.

    If you're looking for complete, open source scientific visualization and data analysis packages, try VisIt, which supports dozens of input formats and runs on Linux, Windows, and MacOSX. Pick it up at http://www.llnl.gov/visit, or get the latest binaries from FTP here.

    I have less knowledge of ParaView, but it is also free: http://www.paraview.org.

    Both of these are also developed in part by the national labs; they can run parallel to handle terabytes of data, so if you've got small dataset they should be smokin' fast, and if you've got your own cluster you should be able to visualize some huge data.

    If you're looking for just a toolkit to build your own application, try OpenDX or VTK.

  18. Oh to be /.'ed... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, in the greatest tradition of ./ fashion, I the server is overwhelmed, complaining, and I do not get to play... yet ;-)

    I look forward to seeing what they have developed. When I started coding a spatially-explicit multiscale modeling tool 5 years ago I searched for weeks to find visualization tools, interchange formats, etc. Imagine the ability to attach submodels to multidimentional representations over time. Now try visualizing them.

    Oh, I cannot wait to play.

  19. The following software is available: by Wills · · Score: 3, Informative

    Open-source Visualisation software:

    "[We, the Science Musuem of Minnesota,] are frustrated by a lack of consolidated resources and discussion about open-source, scientific visualization development tools"

    Counter-examples:
    1. Re:The following software is available: by drauh · · Score: 2, Informative

      MayaVi is also quite nice. And it's Python.

      --
      This is a tautology.
    2. Re:The following software is available: by buymespresso · · Score: 1

      Also check out Partiview , a fast open source viewer from the NCSA. It has its limitations, but can handle large animated multidimensional data. The AMNH uses it as the viewer for its nifty planetarium-on-your-laptop Digital Universe, and we've used it to visualize cosmic ray showers, dark matter simulations, global computer networks, clustering patterns, and as a general infovis tool. It also works in stereo, which is really nice when you have two projectors and polarizing filters. The linux binaries supplied sometimes have shared library problems... but /.ers are used to compiling from source anyway...

      --
      My Sig fried. Don't leave your Sig in the sun too long.
  20. GIMP kicks Photoshop's ass? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Roy, my dear boy.

    Judging from the horrifc, bastard, eye-squeezing graphics on your website, I shouldn't think you're in any position to judge what Photoshop can or cannot do.

    The GIMP doesn't even kick PaintShopPro V4's ass.

  21. Yes, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    can they visualize the /. effect? No, seriously, I'd like to see the traffic patterns on a time scale and do some chaos theory calculations.

  22. Grammer by Kipsaysso · · Score: 1

    "I" before "E" except after "C" or when sounded like "A" as in neighbor or way. But their weird and either, foreign seize neither, leisure forfeit and height are exceptions spelt right.

    --
    This is another way of starting a sig with this and ending it with that.
    1. Re:Grammer by wanerious · · Score: 1

      ...and it's spelled "grammar".

    2. Re:Grammer by Kipsaysso · · Score: 1

      Ironic is a sweet mistress

      --
      This is another way of starting a sig with this and ending it with that.
    3. Re:Grammer by eurleif · · Score: 1

      Are you sure you don't mean "weigh" instead of "way"?

    4. Re:Grammer by Squalish · · Score: 1

      As is irony.

      --
      People in Soviet Russia, however, appear to be afflicted with amusing juxtapositions of the aforementioned situation
  23. OpenDX and MayaVI by Noksagt · · Score: 2, Informative

    I think OpenDX is a bit more than just a tool-kit. It also has a great GUI for doing visualization, without the need for too much coding (somewhat analagous to LabView, I suppose). I have found I really like MayaVI, which is a GUI for VTK. MayaVI/VTK are python scriptable, which is great.

    1. Re:OpenDX and MayaVI by hawkstone · · Score: 1

      You're probably right about OpenDX, but I haven't used it. Thanks for the clarification.

      Also, I think VTK has a native Tk interface, and I know VisIt is fully exposed through a Python API.

  24. Re:Come on, can't we have a autogenerator for VRML by imkonen · · Score: 1
    "The 3D flat images are nice, but I want to spin it, go into it,etc. as far as I want, not a preset unchangable series of flats."

    I don't have mod points to make up for this injustice, but I think this is a really good point. I haven't RTFA because it's down, but that's the first thing I would have looked for too. It really surprises me that there already isn't an open standard for this. A universal 3-D format for viewing molecular structures would be ideal for chemists. Something that could go on a website and visitors could look at whatever angle they wanted, or dropped into a PowerPoint presentation (or preferably Impress, but if I go and start complaining how ingrained M$ is in my field I'll really get Off-topic). I mean it's not like there aren't a million solutions to visualization when you're sitting there at your computer, mostly involving expensive propietary software, but also a fair share of free (both sense of the word) options. But at the end of the day, you can't assume most other people have your program (largely because Microsoft doesn't make one), or you don't want to drop out of the middle of your slide show just to show an rendering of your molecule and you're back to picking one (or a few) viewpoint(s) and making .pngs

  25. Re:Come on, can't we have a autogenerator for VRML by luwandah · · Score: 2, Informative

    Actually there is an open viewer for molecules. It's called Rasmol http://www.umass.edu/microbio/rasmol/ and many source files can be downloaded from their site.

  26. Re:Come on, can't we have a autogenerator for VRML by imkonen · · Score: 1
    I think you kind of missed my point. I've used other free molecular modelling programs. I'm looking for a standardized data format for generic 3-D pictures. The molecular visualization is nice for me and other scientists, but to expect standards compliant web browsers to start supporting the format without a specialized plug-in, it would probably have to be more universally applicable.

    This is more what I'm talking about, except I'd like it to be as ubiquitous as .gif or .jpeg: so that I can right click it, save it to my desktop, drop it into a presentation (with proper citation of course :-)). Right now it just seems too...specialized I guess. It's a whole java applet that takes care of the visualization, not just a data format. I dunno...maybe I'm being too picky. At least there is some kind of option. It just seems like the technology is all there for a simple, straight forward 3-D standard, it's just a matter of getting it all together and a critical mass of people using it so that most 3-D visualization programs would have an option to output to that format, even if it means loss of some information, and programs that can embed graphics would be expected to be able to embed the format. To extend the .png analogy: if you made a pretty picture in the GIMP, you wouldn't normally bother to post the original .xcf file. Even if you didn't mind people taking your work and modifying it, it just wouldn't be a safe assumption that most people viewing your website have the GIMP or even know what it is. And how many will bother to install it just because you included a link to http://www.gimp.org/? Instead you'd convert to .png and post that. Yes you lose some of the original information when you do that and if you go back to .xcf, you won't have the original layering etc, but then it's also a safe assumption that most people just want to see the picture and aren't interested in the original source.

  27. SMM doesn't purely use govt funds by Jman314 · · Score: 1

    I really like this muesuem, it's a good asset to my state. The exhibits are usually pretty nice.

    It does have corporate benefactors as well as individual memberships. The whole thing was started by business. As far as I know it doesn't use much public funds.

    It even built a very nice new facility in 1999. This museum does more than earn the cost of upkeep.

  28. SCIRun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    SCIRun is released under a BSD license and comes with several medical related datasets.

  29. 3D images in other sciences by praedictus · · Score: 1

    As a geophysicist, I've been looking for a simple tool for manipulating 3d datasets. Many of the field surveys I conduct result in data sets consisting of X(Usually UTMeasting), Y(usually UTMnorthing),Z(depth-either from surface or absolute), and a list of values. (physical properties - conductivity,chargeability, etc)
    So far I haven't seen anything that will grid this data well in 3 dimensions - most software I've used ends up making 2-d slices and then laying them side by side rather than making a proper 3-d matrix. I would rather have a proper 3d grid with colour/transparency levels based on the property values I can orient in realtime. When I see the rapid realtime 3d processing in games and compare it to the slow 2-d gridding in commercial geo software I end up shaking my head...

    --
    Watashi wa chikyubutsurigakusha desu.
  30. Adds to an already great Blender story! by potus98 · · Score: 1

    If you're not familiar with the history of the open-source 3D modelling tool known as "Blender," I highly recommend taking 5 minutes to read about it here: http://http//www.blender3d.org/cms/History.53.0.ht ml It's a great story of how this particular set of proprietary code escaped to the freedom of open-source under the GNU Public License. (With a little help from an incredible fan-user base.)

    --
    This one gang kept wanting me to join cause I'm pretty good with a bo staff.
    1. Re:Adds to an already great Blender story! by ultranova · · Score: 1

      Use http://www.blender3d.org/cms/History.53.0.html.

      The link in parent goes to http.com, an advertising firm.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    2. Re:Adds to an already great Blender story! by potus98 · · Score: 1

      Oops, double htttp's in link. Try this: http://www.blender3d.org/cms/History.53.0.html

      --
      This one gang kept wanting me to join cause I'm pretty good with a bo staff.
  31. Doesn't anyone but me know about Animabob by LM741N · · Score: 1

    I've tried all of the 3d-viz programs and they are all gigantic unwieldy albatrosses. They are gigantic in size and only deal with custom file formats.

    Enter Animabob. You can take a simply 3 dimensional matrix, dump it to an output file, get a color map, then just run Animabob on the 3d matrix. Its incredibly simple. The rest of these programs I abhor require custom file formats and various other crap to get them to work.

    Animabob just requires an x, y, z matrix dump to work!

    Its available at : http://www.borg.umn.edu/~grant/AnimaBob/

    I also have a gnu tools version that works on Cygwin. Get it at: :http://www.pythonemproject.com/animabob-cygwin-1. 1.t
    gz

    Have fun. Rob

    ps. I am looking for someone to update this OpenGL app so that the frame rate is not tied to the video card.
    As it is the newer video cards run it so fast as to be almost unusable.

  32. try partiview... by buymespresso · · Score: 1

    Have you tried Partiview? It's pretty good with those kinds of datasets - I use it for 3d scatterplots a lot. And you can change the colors of points by whatever attribute you want, and spin the data around smoothly in realtime - I can do that with a quarter of a million points on my laptop with a GeForce Go5200, and probably more if I tried.

    --
    My Sig fried. Don't leave your Sig in the sun too long.
    1. Re:try partiview... by buymespresso · · Score: 1

      Whoops, add a "/partiview" to the end of that url. Like this.

      --
      My Sig fried. Don't leave your Sig in the sun too long.