Taking My Freedom With Me to China?

Solo Han asks: "I'm considering a move to China next year, and while I have just as many problems as y'all do with the government, I still like the freedoms afforded me, especially when it comes to access of information. Chinese citizens, however, do not have the same freedoms, as we are constantly reminded here on slash-o-dot. Pr0n, mp3z, and games aside, what are the things that those of you in the Celestial Kingdom know you cannot access, and specifically, what are the websites, search engines, news sites, and other sites that are classed as potentially 'dangerous' material? This brings me to my overall question: is the censorship that real, that hard to get around, and how do you do it? What methods and technologies are you aware of or use to circumvent the Great Firewall of China?"

Comments

R.E.S.P.E.C.T.

[fembots]

What methods and technologies are you aware of or use to circumvent the Great Firewall of China?

Somehow I don't think it's wise to do such circumvention if you want to stay there short-term/long-term/permanently.

What would US officials think if a foreigner, who is planning to move to USA, talks about how stupid the whole security thing is, and asks for advice to get around it?

If USA can attack another country "Just Like That"(tm), I would consider Chinese's censorship a godsend given it's only imposed within its own country. If you decided to move there, respect its laws; if you don't agree with its laws, go somewhere else. You always have a choice.

At home I have unlimited access to the internet, but at work I can only access port 80, and I would never try to get around company's security policy because it's restricting my freedom to surf, although others might still try that.

And remember, when you get caught, it's going to be ugly no matter where you are.

So in my opinion, if you want to go into other's territory, make sure you find out what can and cannot be done there, and stick to the rules.

Re:R.E.S.P.E.C.T.

[Otter]

Inflammatory comments about the US aside, parent is absolutely correct.

Screwing around with the legal system of China isn't like wearing a deCSS t-shirt and thinking you're some sort of badass revolutionary. They have those restrictions because they intend them to be obeyed. If you're a citizen of a major country, probably nothing really bad will happen to you, but just getting deported will have dire effects on your future travel plans.

If you genuinely want to be a freedom fighter there, good luck. But judging from the frivolity of your post "here on slash-o-dot", you really seem to have no idea what you're getting into.

Re:R.E.S.P.E.C.T.

[Frymaster]

I am having a hard time deciding if you are trolling or not....

actually, i'm having a hard time deciding whether the original poster, cliff, is a cop from china. posting a request for chinese citizens to publicly state:

1. that they are breaking the law
2. and explain how they are doing it

sounds a bit like a sting operation to me. if i were a citizen of china and i could get throught he great firewall, i sure as hell wouldn't be talking about it on slashdot.

now... where did i put that tinfoil hat?

Have fun

[grub]

So basically your question is stating "I'm going to China and expect to be able to break their laws as I was fortunate enough to be born in a more free society."

Don't whine to the foreign media when you're jailed as a subversive influence.

What a sad way to define "freedom"

[Anonymous Coward]

He says nothing about the freedom to speak or offer others his opinions or views. Or freedom to express parody. He says nothing about freedom to practice a religion of his choice. Or about any freedoms that are actually real and important. How very sad, that his idea of "freedom" is simply being able to access web sites he chooses and download some music and porn. Yes, he would make the perfect American consumer for the future corporations have in mind here.

Freedom is not an "incompatable world view"

[Cr0w T. Trollbot]

"The United States and other western countries all have very incompatable world views when it comes countries like China."

Freedom is not an incompatable world view.

Democracy is not an incompatable world view.

Human rights are not an incompatable world view.

Equality under the law is not an incompatable world view.

All of these are basic rights for all human beings. The fact that the Communist government of China has refused to recognize them is not due to "an incompatable world view," its due to a small nomenklatura of Communist elites denying these rights to their people. The ideas themselves are no more alien to China than they were alien to Japan in 1945.

- Crow T. Trollbot

Re:Freedom is not an "incompatable world view"

[SuperBigGulp]

The only right you are born with is death.

...and sometimes not even that. IIRC there have been mixed judicial opinions on "right to die" cases, although the most current SCOTUS seemed to side with this in the Florida case.

I believe there are cases either pending or on appeal that deal with "death with dignity" cases.

Re:Freedom is not an "incompatable world view"

[Ioldanach]

In the US we take these as a given. I've encountered people where I work that are from other countries that truly do not comprehend the value of freedom and democracy. I'll grant the latter 2, human rights and equal application of the law.

However, while I may grant that everyone understands there are basic human rights, the definitions of those rights are cultural, and therefore the point there is moot. The mere existence of human rights cannot be the basis of an argument that another country doesn't have them. You can merely say they don't share our assumption of basic human rights.

As far as equal application of the law, I'll grant that pretty much every culture expects this, it just happens that there are always a few at high levels who can circumvent it, and it falls to the culture to police this. So I don't think the chinese people as a whole have this problem, though the government certainly does.

Now we get to freedom and democracy. You and I take as a given our freedom and the democracy. (ok, this country has an elected republic, not a democracy, but the word will do for now) However, in other cultures, the need for cultural and societal stability outweighs many personal freedoms. From everything I've seen, the culture of China rejects personal freedoms along these lines, though the government does indeed go too far in my opinion in enforcing this mindset.

Simply put, you're making assertions that require serious work to defend, and you have to understand the cultural background of the people you need to defend your assertions against.

Can you truly express why your first two assertions are accurate, and justify them to a culture not founded on them?

Re:Freedom is not an "incompatable world view"

[Dire Bonobo]

> It would seem that I understand my freedoms and democracy better than you.
> Oh, and I voted for Bush, too. I guess I shouldn't exist according to your logic.

Not at all; he simply disagrees with you. You believe you understand your freedoms better than he does; he believes you don't have as many freedoms as you think.

Whether you understand the creation of a law doesn't really determine whether you understand its effect.

Let's get something straight here.

[LeiGong]

China is not 1984. Repeat after me, China is not 1984. China is not EastAsia.

It seems to me very few of you have actually been to China or even understand how the system there works. For the same reason why Europeans think we're a country of hicks driving around in a pickup with shotguns who elected a idiot to office is why you think the Chinese is some sort of omni-present superpower that oversees all of the minute details of its citizens' lives and takes sadistic pleasure in torture. You're taking in media hype and a fear of the unknown. China has its share of problems: freedom of speech and freedom of religion come to mind. These are serious issues that need to be addressed but that doesn't mean everytime you commit a crime in China you will be sent into "reeducation." That also doesn't mean if you use a proxy to surf the web that they're going to break your thumbs. The Chinese government are too busy with the same serious issues that the US is dealing with to be bothered by these minor offenses.

While it may sound like the Chinese police force operate a Gestapo-like regime but that's far from the truth. Believe or not, China has laws and 99% of the time, they are followed. They also have lawyers that will free an innocent man. Some people vision of a totalitarian society governed by "The Party" are just too far fetched. Do they honestly think that the police operate on whatever laws they please and the people live in constant fear? I'll tell you from actually lived in China that it is hardly the case. People are way too reoccupied w/ making money to give a shit. Just remember the same media that is telling you to be afraid of China is the same one that ran the special on 20/20 about the wide-spread dangers of drier lint fires and the world-wide SARS epedemic.

Re:addendum

[yuri benjamin]

How about helping those that want to break the yoke but can't.

Re:His next ask slashdot...

[rjh]

The difference is this: in the United States, prison labor may only be used to produce goods and services for the state. It is illegal for prison-produced goods to compete on the open market and it is illegal for prisons to profit off anyone but other governmental agencies.

For instance, if you're a government executive and the government gives you an allowance with which to outfit your office, you can buy desks for a song. Prisons who teach woodworking as a trade skill offer some beautifully-made things for under $100. They can do this because their labor costs are pretty much nothing. However, the prison can only sell it to other branches of the government--you won't find them for sale in the prison gift shop.

Prison labor is also used to clean up roadways; to dig firebreaks in areas where forest fires are a concern; to make license plates; etc.

I'm not offended by manual labor in the service of the state being a criminal punishment. I'm offended by the idea of convicts being used to make their wardens and jailers independently wealthy, which is precisely what happens in China.

Before you go about preaching there's no difference between what we do and what they do, you may wish to learn what the difference is.