Fansubbers Under Fire

CNet is running a story about new developments in the fansubbing world. The article provides some background, and then discusses Media Factory's recent letters to fansubbers demanding removal of their shows. Historically the studios have turned a blind eye towards the work of the fansubbers, and the assumption has always been they they secretly approve since the fans work is amazing market research. I've bought countless DVDs based entirely on the work of fansubbers, so I hope that this isn't the beginning of the end.

Comments

What the hell is a fansubber?

[Anonymous Coward]

For everyone else asking that question, they apparently translate foreign movies and make English subtitles.

Re:What the hell is a fansubber?

[Kunnis]

Fansubbers go through and put subtitles on anime captured from Japanese TV. Usually the group captures it off of TV, then someone will translate it, pass it off to someone else for checking, then the subtitles are timed, then encoded, and finally distributed via newgroups or bittorrent. Most groups try to do a whole series, and most series are usually 26+ episodes long. IMHO the translations are better then the commercial ones, and sometimes the only way you can get the uncut series. Most of these groups do these translations weekly, and often they have half the series translated and their release dates are only a few weeks after their showing on TV in Japan. The commercial translations are only available at least a year or two after it's been out in Japan. Inu Yasha, which is very popular on Cartoon Network, was on its 3rd or 4th season in Japan before they started showing it here in the US.

Re:What the hell is a fansubber?

[Elledan]

It can be argued, of course, that fansubs exists for a good reason, namely that those lucky enough to live in Japan can watch those shows on TV, without necessarily having to buy the DVD, whereas poor suckers like the rest of us are expected to wait for those series to be released in our respective countries.

If TV broadcasts weren't limited to a single country (in most cases), and only a single language was spoken in the entire world, then those companies would have a point. At the moment it are (mostly) just fans wanting to see the anime series which are currently being broadcast without having to wait a year or (much) longer and pay _extra_ for the DVD (on top of the costs for cable TV).

I can understand Japanese, I like anime, but I don't want to buy the DVD(s) of every single series I watch. I'm, however, prepared to pay a couple of euros extra per month for the priviledge to receive the major Japanese TV-channels on my TV here in Europe. Which includes the latest (anime) series.

"Fansubbing" FTA

[grub]

From the article (assuming you're like me in wondering what "fansubbing" is):

"[fansubbers] take Japanese cartoons, translate and subtitle them in English, and release them freely on the Net."

The border between illegal and immoral.

[Demon-Xanth]

Most fansubbing groups operate on morality vs. legality.

They will sub, and release, a series until there is a company that picks it up and says "we are going to do this". And then they drop it. At which point, most drop all sources for all episodes both future and already released. This is why studios don't have a problem with most groups. It doesn't dilute the market enough to bother with.

I don't consider this practice immoral. However, given the current state of copyright laws, it is illegal. Doing fansubs, or DLing them is an at-risk practice for all parties involved.

Much like driving 5MPH over the speed limit, or doing a rolling stop at a stop sign. Illegal and immoral do not always coincide.

Re:No Story

[ichimunki]

If you want Japanese cartoons before they're released in English, learn Japanese.

And then what? Watch them as they're broadcast in Japanese on local TV here in the States? Good luck! Even if you live in heavy Japanese settled areas you are unlikely to find much Japanese language programming. Fansubs usually come out as the shows are being broadcast in Japan. Fansubbers then do a lot of hard work to provide their own translations of these shows.

Finally, the entire anime fan community has a strong "buy a licensed version" ethos. If the Japanese companies who make these shows were to release subtitled versions of the shows online for a reasonable fee I suspect that fansubbing would screech to a halt (so I don't get what you're talking about with fansubbers "creating barriers to legitimate online distribution" there is no current legitimate online distribution--if there were, there would be no need for fansubs). I think the typical fansub viewer would prefer the original audio with subtitles over any English remake of the dialog anyway.

Complaint text

[flatface]

I dumped this from a PDF file Lunar Anime received. Most of those in the fansubbing community know that we respect US licenses, so we're also respecting MFI's request. Please note that Lunar is only doing KgNE from that list.

--

Name of sender:
FUKUI Kensaku
fukui@kottolaw.com
Admitted in Japan and New York

TELEPHONE:(813)5766-8980
FACSIMILE: (813)5466-1107

KOTTO DORI LAW OFFICE
MINAMI AOYAMA POINT 1ST FLR.
18-5, MINAMI AOYAMA 5-CHOME
MINATO-KU, TOKYO 107-0062 JAPAN

December 7, 2004

LUNARANIME.ORG
[removed address]

Re: Copyright Infringement on Web Site

Dear Madame/Sir,

I am a legal counsel of Media Factory, Inc. and writing this letter in that capacity.

Media Factory, Inc. ("MFI") is one of Japanese major animation film producers and owns or jointly owns with other companies copyrights and trademarks regarding various Japanese anime films including the following works ("Works"):

Gankutsuou
Rahxephon
Genshiken
Kimi ga nozomu Eien

Recently, MFI found that certain unauthorized copies of the Works are uploaded to the following web site(s) considered to be managed by you ("your web site") and/or that users are induced on or through your web site to certain web sites containing such unauthorized copies. Such unauthorized copies may be downloaded by users in many countries including Japan from such web sites without charge. We believe that a large number of unauthorized copies have already been flowed out through such web sites.

www.lunaranime.org

Needless to say, unauthorized copying and upload and distribution of such copies are serious copyright infringement. Absolutely no money goes to creators and anime producers of the Works from such illegal distribution.

I hereby request you to cease and terminate said upload and/or inducement immediately and erase all the copies of the Works under your possession. Please confirm the termination and erasure in writing to my contact address set forth as above within ten (10) business days of your receipt of this letter either by mail or facsimile.

In case we cannot confirm said termination and erasure within such period, we will need to consider commencing necessary legal action.

This letter is sent without prejudice to any of MFI's rights or remedies. Sincerely,

FUKUI Kensaku Attorney at law

Re:Ahh!

[Welsh Dwarf]

Not quite, they take TV recordings of animes that aren't available in the destination country, sub them, and release them onto the net, kind of like haveing a japanese freind send you this weeks episode with a resume of what goes on.

As soon as someone in the destination country starts producing (or even state that they intend to start producing) the anime in question, it disapears without trace from the web.

The idea is to get to see footage that will probably never be translated (and in most cases isn't, especially into non english languages, France here), not to kill off the japenese film industry.

I've got loads at home, but I also have a lot of Mangas, DVD's etc that I acquired after they were (finally) released. FYI a 4 year wait isn't uncommun.

Re:A good example

[Anonymous Coward]

Umm, actually, that was a "professional" translation, not a fansub.

Re:Ahh!

[Firehawke]

This has been going on for 20 years, and in fact was largely ignored by the anime companies until recently because there was an unspoken agreement over stopping subbing when a license was available.

This was fine for those in the US, but led to a lot of disgruntled European fans who were waiting years beyond the extensive wait for a US release for their own. So, the dispute ended up being about subs continuing after domestic (US) release-- companies like ADV argue that sub distribution should stop after a US release, and European sub groups disagree.

Then add in the pirate groups that were doing their own things outright.

It's been a grey-area issue for a very long time, and is hindered additionally by the fact that the anime release companies in the US pay attention to sub groups to find out what people *want*.

The fansubbing process

[darkgray]

I used to be a fansubber, before I went back to the university in order to learn Japanese properly. At the time I wrote a guide for curious people, describing the process our group went through for subtitling an episode.

URL is http://www.lolikon.org/guide.html

I'd also like to point out that fansubs are likely to spread the Japanese culture a lot more than any dubbed-and-slashed US versions released. Granted, this may not be an amazing thing for American companies looking for quick profits on a new frontier, but I believe Japan as a nation will benefit in the end.

Sigh.. I wish slashdot had a -1, Wrong mod.

[Kjella]

Under the Berne convention, everything copyrightable is copyrighted by default. You don't have to include a (c) either. The copyright is equally valid in all signing countries, which is ~100 nations, and all of the important ones. This post is copyrighted in the US and Japan. So is yours. It's as simple as that.

Kjella