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NASA Proposes Warming Mars

hotsauce writes "The Guardian reports a NASA scientist has proposed releasing a gas on Mars to start a global warming of the planet in order to make it more hospitable for life. No word on how much traction this has amongst geophysicists. I wonder how much simulation and testing you need before we feel safe about affecting an entire planet."

9 of 979 comments (clear)

  1. Original NASA Article from Feb/2001 with more info by Hulkster · · Score: 5, Informative
    Here's the original NASA article with a lot more details (no surprise!) than the Guardian ...

    BTW, Edgar Rice Burroughs would approve as the author of the John Carter of Mars series of books which talked about life on the Red Planet.

  2. Pipe Dream by stecoop · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's been speculated for many years to reproduce gas emissions on Mars as we do on this planet. The atmosphere was thicker on Mars then it is now; yet you have to go back to the problem that caused the atmosphere to thin in the first place. As it turns out, the core of the planet slowed down or event stop spinning causing the magnetic field to disappear.

    Unless the core spins to shield the planet from the solar winds then anything done will only be temporary. The sun will simply blow off any thick atmosphere. Alas a pipe dream to teraform the whole planet unless you take some ideas from the movie Space Balls.

    1. Re:Pipe Dream by stecoop · · Score: 4, Informative

      It is known that at one time Mars had a magnetic field somewhat equivalent to Earth. Mars had a thicker atmosphere but nothing compared to the atmosphere of Venus. When the core of both planets stopped spinning; the atmosphere of one was wiped away while the other wasn't.

      Now let me speculate that the atmosphere of Venus is thick enough on it's own to prevent the solar winds from wiping it off the face while Mars never had such a thick atmosphere. Mars had to have the protection of a magnetic field to have an atmosphere.

      Very good data about the fields were found on a quick search: I like these two
      http://www-ssc.igpp.ucla.edu/personnel/russel l/pap ers/venus_mag/
      http://www-ssc.igpp.ucla.edu/perso nnel/russell/pap ers/mars_mag/

  3. Green Mars... by MadMorf · · Score: 4, Informative

    A Kim Stanley Robinson (SF writer) short story which he later expanded into 3 novels (Red/Green/Blue Mars).

    Covers this is a believeable and seemingly plausible way...

    One of my all-time favorite SF series, right next to the Gap Cycle by Stephen R. Donaldson and the original Foundation Trilogy by Isaac Asimov.

  4. Re:Stupidest thing ever by jerometremblay · · Score: 4, Informative

    Where the hell are we supposed to get that much of ANY gas?

    From the article in the New Scientist: "The study found four fluorine-based gases that could be made of elements abundant on the Martian surface."

  5. Re:No ! by visgoth · · Score: 4, Informative

    This exact debate was played out in the Red Mars Trilogy of books. One faction wanted to leave Mars in its "pristine" state, while another wanted to make it habitable by humans. An interesting read, to say the least.

    --
    My patience is infinite, my time is not.
  6. Links to better articles by FleaPlus · · Score: 5, Informative

    As seems to be increasingly the case, I already submitted (rejected) variants of this story twice over the past week. I've pasted one of those variants below, which has links to sources far more information than the freakin' Guardian:

    Greenhouse gases could breathe life into Mars

    MSNBC, New Scientist and PhysOrg report on research by Margarita Marinova and others on using synthetic greenhouse gases to warm the Martian atmosphere and create the conditions for life to thrive. The study focused on fluorine-based gases (dubbed "super-greenhouse gases"), which would be non-toxic, nearly 10,000 times as effective at capturing heat as CO2, and could be made from Martian resources. The research concluded that adding 300 parts per million of these gases would lead to a feedback effect by unfreezing CO2 and water on the surface. According to Marinova, 'Since warming Mars effectively reverts it to its past, more habitable state, this would give any possibly dormant life on Mars the chance to be revived and develop further.' The feasibility and consequences of such terraforming have been debated in the past.


    Also, note that contrary to the accepted submission's title, NASA hasn't done any sort of proposal of actually doing this. This is simply cool research exploring a very interesting "What-if".

  7. The real cause: insufficient mass (of Mars) by macklin01 · · Score: 5, Informative

    At a given temperature, a gas has a certain pressure and root mean speed (norm of velocity from its kinetic energy). (A bit of calculation can show it to be (3kT/m)^(1/2), where k is Boltzmann's constant, T is temp in Kelvin, and m the gas molecule's mass.)

    If the root mean square of the gas is comparable to the escape velocity (2GM/R)^(1/2), the the majority of the gas will only stick around for a few days (if v_{esc} / v_{rms} is around 1), or maybe a few years. In fact, for the majority of the gas to be retained by the planet for several billion years, we need v_{esc} / v_{rms} around 10 or more.

    It turns out that v_{esc} / v_{rms} for Mars for most gases is too low. Water, ammonia, and methane, as well as helium and hydrogen are too light to be retained for long. (Although it turns out that water is just a bit too light, so it might stick around for thousands or millions or years.) However, it does appear oxygen, nitrogen, and carbon dioxide might be just heavy enough to be retained.

    This means that if there had ever been a significant amount of liquid water on Mars, it would not have stuck around long. CO2, and O2, on the other hand, have a shot. (So I guess we could design a breathable atmosphere, but water would be a problem.)

    Interestingly enough, these figures change (for the worse) if temperature increases on Mars (increases the kinetic energy of the gases), so making Mars more hospitable, temperature-wise, may make it less long-term hospitable, desirable molecule-wise.

    I got a lot of this info from my undergrad astronomy/astrophysics text: Introductory Astronomy and Astrophysics, 4th ed, by Zeilik and Gregory. -- Paul

    --
    OpenSource.MathCancer.org: open source comp bio
  8. Re:Easy! by CaptainAvatar · · Score: 4, Informative

    He's an MD, not a PhD (much less a PhD in climatology), and the fact that you would change your mind about any scientific issue after reading a novel (no matter how well referenced) is pretty scary. You might like to read this for some informed criticism of Crichton's book.

    --
    The real Captain Avatar is a fictional character, so I suppose he doesn't mind if I impersonate him.