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Trolltech to Extend Dual-License to Qt/Windows

scc writes " Trolltech announced today that Qt 4 will be available on Windows under the GPL. While Trolltech has long dual-licensed Qt on X11 (Linux, various Unixes), Mac, and embedded, Windows developers have had no options other than a commercial license."

29 of 436 comments (clear)

  1. Is TrollTech trolling? by geoffspear · · Score: 4, Insightful
    They claim that to use their software in a commercial setting (or to develop proprietary software from their code, which isn't an issue), you need to buy a commercial license rather than using the GPL. By releasing their software under the GPL, aren't they making it impossible to require a commercial license for use in any setting?

    Can't I just download their software under the GPL, and redistribute it to anyone to be used under any setting at all?

    --
    Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
    1. Re:Is TrollTech trolling? by Nurgled · · Score: 5, Informative

      I think by "use" they mean linking the library to your application. The application developer is the user of Qt, not the application user.

      If you want to write an application and not release it under the GPL, you must purchase a commercial licence.

    2. Re:Is TrollTech trolling? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Except that (unless they've changed it recently) they specifically prohibit you from doing this. If you develop non-GPL code you must do it on the commercial version. The non-GPL version is licensed on a per-seat basis, so you can't have all of your developers using the GPL version and a single build machine running the commercial version.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    3. Re:Is TrollTech trolling? by eivindthrondsen · · Score: 5, Informative

      No, we are not trolling. The point of the dual license model is that we are _dual licensing_ Qt. We offer the Commercial license for proprietary use, and the Open Source Edition for Open Source use. You are of course free to download and redistribute the Open Source Edition, but you need to comply with the provisions of the GPL (distribute source with the binary, accept the freedom of your users to redistribute and modify the source). This is not the same as use under any setting at all.

      --
      Eivind Throndsen, Trolltech AS
    4. Re:Is TrollTech trolling? by geoffspear · · Score: 3, Interesting
      I think what had me confused is the use of the word "use" in the dual license FAQ.

      I read it as prohibiting use of even open source programs built with Qt in a commercial setting without a commercial license, which would violate the GPL. It's clear from other posters in this thread that it's prohibiting only the development of closed source software without a commercial license.

      Of course, I'm not entirely convinced that even resolving this ambiguity helps; I'm fairly certain that the GPL allows me to develop closed-source software from GPLed code for use in any setting I want to use it in, as long as I don't actually distribute the derived program to anyone else. (e.g., if an investment banker somewhere wants to write a program using Qt for his own use in his office, for a commercial purpose, without distributing the program or the source, the FAQ seems to prohibit that, but the GPL says it's perfectly fine.)

      --
      Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
    5. Re:Is TrollTech trolling? by MartinG · · Score: 3, Informative

      If you want to write an application and not release it under the GPL, you must purchase a commercial licence.

      No. If you want to write an application and not release it under the GPL and you want to distribute it, you must purchase a commercial license.

      Remember the GNU GPL does not restrict any kind of use whatsoever unless you want to distribute.

      --
      -- MartinG To mail me: echo kewyjlcxyzvjfxbqwh | tr bcefhjklqvwxyz .@adgimnoprstu
    6. Re:Is TrollTech trolling? by OblongPlatypus · · Score: 3, Informative

      That doesn't need any clearing up, it's given by the GPL, and out of Trolltech's hands.

      --
      -- If no truths are spoken then no lies can hide --
    7. Re:Is TrollTech trolling? by jdavidb · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Given the dual licensing, can you please answer a question that has made me wonder about Qt for years? If I submit to Trolltech a fix or new feature for GPL'ed Qt, you can't include it in the commercial-license Qt, can you? Does the commercial-license version include community-submitted changes? Does the GPL version include fixes and improvements not present in the commercial version?

    8. Re:Is TrollTech trolling? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm fairly certain that the GPL allows me to develop closed-source software from GPLed code for use in any setting I want to use it in, as long as I don't actually distribute the derived program to anyone else.

      Maybe nitpicking here, but I think you're confusing the issue by talking about the developed software as being 'closed source'. If the program is never distributed then saying that it is open source or closed source is meaningless.

    9. Re:Is TrollTech trolling? by vohi · · Score: 5, Informative

      There are roughly two things that are likely to happen:

      - your fix points out an actual bug or deficiency, but is for numerous reasons not something TT wants to apply against their source code. In this case, TT will probably implement a fix for that actual bug, and most likely not use your patch as it came.

      - the code you submitted is substantial, correct, of excellent quality and follows TT's own coding style. Then Trolltech will most likely ask you to transfer the copyright for this code to them before they include your code, or to provide the code under a suitable license. Then they will send you a job offer :)

      The source code of the Open Source edition of Qt is identical to the source code of the Commercial edition of Qt, so if there is any contributed code in Qt then it went through the above process.

  2. GPL Qt for Windows by Nurgled · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Didn't someone external to Trolltech port the GPL-licenced code to Windows and licence it under the GPL? Without special clauses in the licence to prevent that, that would presumably be allowed.

    Or, do the X11 and Windows versions differ so greatly that such a port is an insurmountable task?

    1. Re:GPL Qt for Windows by atomice · · Score: 4, Informative
    2. Re:GPL Qt for Windows by atomice · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yes it does (target Win32)

  3. Maybe now Lyx can add some good features by the_2nd_coming · · Score: 3, Insightful

    since they have a large audience now that can take advantage of them maybe LyX will start accelerating development and adding in some nice features that will make document creation much more productive.(integrate a bib database for god sakes!!!)

    --



    I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
  4. Ahhh, such excellent news by Progoth · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Goodbye, MFC.

  5. Just what the doctor ordered! by osho_gg · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is exactly what has been requested by many Qt/KDE developers over many years. This will bring about a flourish of new applications being ported from linux to windows (whether you like that or not). This will heat up the Gtk vs. Qt arguments as a major argument against Qt no longer holds. This will also help push KDE Enterprise efforts as many enterprise concerns will be resolved by this move. Good move Trolltech!

  6. Kindows???? by spectrokid · · Score: 3, Interesting

    QT is the base of KDE, no? So when do we get KDE for windows?

    --

    10 ?"Hello World" life was simple then

    1. Re:Kindows???? by JaxWeb · · Score: 4, Informative
      --
      - Jax
    2. Re:Kindows???? by IceFox · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually KDE doesn't rely on the X-Server that much. I ported KDE to native OS-X last Christmas and that was mostly cleaning up the few X-Server calls (i.e. the work is all done from the X-Server side of things).

      -Benjamin Meyer

      --
      Do you changes clothes while making the "chee-chee-cha-cha-choh" transformation sound?
    3. Re:Kindows???? by Bulln-Bulln · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Quote from KDE-Cygwin:

      Posted By: habacker
      Date: 2005-01-27 14:21
      Summary: source and binary snapshots of QT/Win Free Edition available

      The QT/Win Free Edition is not far away from to be a full working release.


      Maybe this is why Trolltech made this announcement? Trolltech propably had its reasons not to release the Windows version under GPL, but with this fork their reasons may be undermined. So maybe the guys at Trolltech thought "better done right (by us), than done buggy (by others) and give us bad reputation".

      Of course this is just speculation and the close time gap between the KDE-Cygwin announcement and the Trolltech announcement could be just a coincidence.

  7. Really? by LilMikey · · Score: 4, Informative

    I was under the impression that Trolltech did have a GPLed version of Qt for Windows. I thought it was the one included in their GUI programming book (the book is at home so I can't look it up myself). I also seem to recall at least a few projects stating that if you contacted Trolltech and notified them that you were working on an open source project and would like Qt for Windows, they'd give it to you for free (although maybe under a different license?).

    --
    LilMikey.com... I'll stop doing it when you sto
  8. Yea! by LoveTheIRS · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Yea! Hopefully, now since cross platform OSS programs can now use QT, the GTK will die an awful awful death. No more hassle making custom widgets in C. Thank the lord. I hope that there is at least some very good competition between QT and GTK now. They are now fighting on relatively equal licensing ground now.

    1. Re:Yea! by ultrabot · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Hopefully, now since cross platform OSS programs can now use QT, the GTK will die an awful awful death.

      GTK is still preferable for developing proprietary applications. The whole software world isn't suddenly going open source - and that's what keeps Trolltech in business as well.

      --
      Save your wrists today - switch to Dvorak
  9. Win32 Qt GPL'ed before by Paralizer · · Score: 3, Informative
    While Trolltech has long dual-licensed Qt on X11 (Linux, various Unixes), Mac, and embedded, Windows developers have had no options other than a commercial license.


    That's not true, I installed Qt3 on my Windows machine and I had the option of using the GPL.
    I came on a CD with this book http://vig.prenhall.com:8081/catalog/academic/prod uct/0,1144,0131240722-FEA,00.html
  10. Re:I wish trolltech was associated with canopy by EirikChambeEng · · Score: 5, Informative

    We have asked Canopy to divest since SCO turned against Linux. Unfortunately under US and Norwegian law you cannot force someone to sell something. We have sold all our investments in Canopy companies a long time ago. We do not like the fact that Canopy and SCO owns shares in Trolltech. The irony is that they became shareholders because the old Canopy/Caldera wanted us to continue to create good Linux software. Canopy/SCO owns a very small share of Trolltech and has no control or influence whatsoever on the strategy and operations of Trolltech. Trolltech is controlled by it's employees. Eirik Chambe-Eng (President, Trolltech) -----

  11. Re:Ease transition by eivindthrondsen · · Score: 4, Informative

    There is nothing weird about the Trolltech Open Source license. The Open Source edition of Qt uses the standard GPL. For further questions, please see our FAQ.

    --
    Eivind Throndsen, Trolltech AS
  12. This is both GREAT and FRUSTRATING by Qwavel · · Score: 4, Insightful


    As a Windows C++ developer, Qt4 is now open-source for my purposes. Since Qt4 is obviously much better than MFC this is very significant.

    But it is very frustrating since Qt could have been a very significant C++ framework on windows if it had done this years ago. Now it is a bit late for most of us.

    The other frustrating thing is that TT, in the best tradition, is pursuing lock-in (vs. standards) in QT4. By deciding to embrace templated containers in their own proprietary way, vs. the standard, STL, way, they make it much harder for a programmer like me to convert to QT, both practically and morally.

    I know they will have all the usual excuses for breaking the standard (I've heard them from MS in the past). It's kind of ironic that, just when MS stops playing games and finally puts out a truly standards compliant compiler (VC7.1) with a great standard library, TT decides to imitate the old MS.

    1. Re:This is both GREAT and FRUSTRATING by Simon · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The main benefit of Qt's container types is that they are the same on each platform. You have to deal with different STL implementations having different bugs. The other reason Qt doesn't use STL is simply because when Qt was started the STL hadn't settled yet and was a PITA to use for cross platform stuff. So then made their own. Now they have to continue using and supporting their containers types. Their customers have too much code depending on it now.

      --
      Simon

  13. Re:Trolltech is NOT trolling. by Samrobb · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sure - I understand that. But here's the problem: I can buy a license for Qt/Commercial from TrollTech without telling them what I plan on using it for. If they want to refuse to sell to me under those circusmstances, again, it's their right. However, even if I do tell them, there's nothing to prevent me from using it to build other projects as well - including projects that started out using Qt/GPL and my own dual-licensed source code, for example.

    Basically, their "if it's GPL from the start, it has to remain GPL forever" clause of theirs has zero force; they know it, which is why their means of dealing with it is to refuse to sell you a commercial license. Before that can work, though, they need to have intimate knowledge of what you're developing, why you're developing it, what your future development plans are, etc. In other words, they need to start treating every customer as a potential license violator and criminal. Take a look at the RIAA, and you can see how well that works.

    --
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