How Heraclitus would Design a Programming Language

CowboyRobot writes "Developer of Smalltalk Alan Kay has an interview on ACM Queue where he describes the history of computing and his approach to designing languages. Kay has an impressive resume (PARC, ARPAnet, Atari, Apple, Alan Turing Award winner) and has an endless supply of memorable quotes: 'Perl is another example of filling a tiny, short-term need, and then being a real problem in the longer term,' 'Once you have something that grows faster than education grows, you're always going to get a pop culture,' 'most undergraduate degrees in computer science these days are basically Java vocational training,' 'All creativity is an extended form of a joke,' and 'nobody really knows how to design a good language.'"

Comments

Erst Ps0t

[Adolf Hitroll]

Fuck You !

Heraclitus?

[Anonymous Coward]

Dear trolls, YHBT

I would like to announce that Anti-slash is closing shop, after having been the biggest and most successful troll of all time, especially aimed at trolling the trolls themselves. For months we styled ourselves as freedom fighters, exploding petty grievances against Slashdot (OMG, dupes! REVOLUTION D00DZ!) and generally stirring up all the petty crybabies we could find. All of those who really believed our crap and signed up to Anti-slash, posted our 'manifesto' and campaigned for us ... well done! We have totally fucked pwned your stupid asses. And now thanks to your overblown shit-stirring, you've managed to get an editor fired, congratulations!
Once again ... I HAVE SO FUCKING TROLLED YOU ALL. You fail it times a hundred.
You'll note that our website (http://www.anti-slash.org) has been down for some time now. It won't be coming back, as it's served its purpose of baiting all you pussies. One final 'Well done' to the brave anti-slash crew!

Yours with love, Ackbar

Re:Which fanboy are you?

[karniv0re]

7. OpenBSD

You walk around feeling incredibly secure, since you're supposed to be secure by default. Then, because you didn't take the time to understand the OS and did something stupid, you realize that you've been walking with your fly down the whole time. Of course the girls you tried to pick up at the bar called you out right away with your smug attitude, lack of "features", and that "Puff" t-shirt you thought was cool. Once you realize your mistakes, you desperately post to misc@openbsd.org begging for help. You get laughed at by other people just like you, only of a higher caliber. But hey, you don't care, you're secure... right?

Re:astounding hubris

[jeif1k]

Then go re-read his post and realize that it talked about how it made implementing compilers easier,

So was I. Go read up a little on Lisp and trying using it, then you'll see why.

Lisps awkward syntax (yes, yes, I know "it's not awkward, it's minmal!") will probably prevent it

Coming from someone who advocates Perl-related technologies, that is a ridiculous statement. Perl is a stellar example of how even the worst syntax can't keep a language from being used.

Then put down the Bill Joy doll.

The only thing I would be doing with a Bill Joy doll is put needles in it; Java sucks about as badly as Perl, although in completely different ways.

Snobbish LISP Advocacy

[Loundry]

You know, when you set out to make fun of something, it helps if you actually know something about what you're making fun of.

I know some things about LISP! LISP is a language whose advocates are largely elitist university snobs, most of which come from MIT. Outside of that, its use is very limited.

They don't count because Lisp did implement them "way back when". LOOPS (a Xerox PARC OO system, one of the predecessors of CLOS) had a visual forms designer and a refactoring IDE ... in 1985.

And the response is, so the fuck what! You sound like the Apple advocate who looks down his nose and proclaims, "But *WE* had the GUI first!" This pleases the MAC advocates, and no one else gives a shit. Likewise your claim pleases the LISP advocates, and no one else gives a shit.

Close, but no cigar. Lisp was invented in the late 1950's, so it's a little over 45 years old today.

So you've had *plenty* of time for advocacy. Behold the pathetic market share of LISP! If it really is as awesome and "elegant" as LISP advocates incessantly claim it to be, then why isn't it more popular? Perhaps it's your elitist and condescending and ass-holier-than-thou evangelism that turns people off.

I find "(+ a b c d e)" shorter and clearer than "a + b + c + d + e", myself.

I can't think of a single time that I've had to add five things in a row. Nor have I ever seen it in anyone else's code. What, again, is the benefit of the stupid infix notation?

One of the reasons Lisp is still around is that it isn't a pure-anything language.

The main reason LISP is still around is the immortal elitism of its ivory-tower proponents.

Lisp invented conditional execution (Fortran at the time had only computed GOTO when Lisp introduced COND), and over the years it has absorbed structured programming, IDEs, and object-oriented programming, usually by helping to invent or extend them.

All that and eight-fucking-million parentheses does not make you any smarter or better than any other programmer.

Yes, Grasshopper, it is good that you are learning to Question Authority. But, you should also Listen to Authority's Response, and if it turns out that Authority is Indeed Correct, you are obliged to Admit It.

I'm surprised it took you until the end of your post to let your true colors show, you condescending asshole. I will never use LISP (or OpenBSD) because of elitist jackasses like you.