Grand Theft Auto Led Teen to Kill

Varg Vikernes writes "FOXNews reports on a lawsuit that claims the video game 'Grand Theft Auto' led a teenager to shoot two police officers and a dispatcher to death in 2003, mirroring violent acts depicted in the popular game. 'What has happened in Alabama is that four companies participated in the training of Devin... to kill three men,' attorney Jack Thompson told The Tuscaloosa News, which reported the suit's filing. Thompson is also filing suit against Wal-Mart, Gamestop, Take-Two and Sony." Gamespot has coverage of this story as well. Thompson has made something of a career out of lawsuits of this nature.

Comments

I'm pissed.

[WhatAmIDoingHere]

When will it be "Parents irresponsible with how they raised their child leads to deaths"?

When will the blame be placed where it belongs, with the people who's job is to raise this child until he is old enough to support himself?

What the hell happened to being responsible for your own actions?

If I ever rob someone at an ATM I'll sue NBC because I saw someone on Law & Order do it once.

What the FUCK is wrong with this country?

Re:I'm pissed.

[micromoog]

Unless you lock your kid in the basement, he's going to be raised, whether you like it or not, by plenty of other people.

But mainly you. You have to teach him to handle other influences appropriately; that's in fact your main job once the pooping/feeding part is self-sustaining. YOU have to equip him with the tools to differentiate right from wrong, reality from fantasy, exciting electronic offers from spam, etc.

Re:I'm pissed.

[dfenstrate]

What the FUCK is wrong with this country?

At this point, I think it's more fair to ask "What the fuck is wrong with this kid, and his parents?"

We know what's wrong with the lawyer. He has no ethics and thinks there's money to be made.

Now, if he consisently succeeds in winning these lawsuits, then we can ask what's wrong with this country. The answer is already ' a lot of things'

Re:I'm pissed.

[rwven]

Completely agreed. And even without the whole "Parent's raising" part of it (because parents seem to have a problem with that) what about the ridiculous legal system in this country actually holding the people responsible for their actions. I'm so sick of seeing guilt pawned off. It's nothing but a finger-pointing game.

In the 30's, if you stuck your arm into a pulley and got it taken off, it was your fault because any idiot knows not to put their arm into machinery....now it's the company you work fors fault. lame. The entire country has gone to "blame someone else."

Re:I'm pissed.

[LurkerXXX]

Parents should be the strongest influence on letting their kids know what is right and wrong. I watched war movies all the time when I was a kid. I played cowboys and indians all the time. I've never gone to a reservation and shot some innocent native American.

The parents either did a crappy job raising him, or he was born with or developed a severe chemical imabalance, or he's just a bad guy. Either way, it's not the gaming companies fault. It's the kids and possibly his parents.

Re:I'm pissed.

[Decessus]

The problem with this response is it doesn't really address the issue. "There is only so much a parent can do". Sure there, but can you honestly say that parents are doing enough? The problems that are occuring today have to do with the kind of society America has become. The employment of both parents is increasing more and more. This means that less and less time is spent with the kids instilling proper values. Instead, things like video games and television are used to raise kids. People today are more concerned with material things than they are with anything else. They want that big screen TV, or that brand new car. It just seems that all our priorities are way out of whack. This is a bit rushed because I'm in a hurry, but I hope it's clear enough what I'm trying to say.

Re:I'm pissed.

[JaredOfEuropa]

What's wrong with people that they think a game that allows you to beat up women, shoot cops and steal cars is fun?

It's fun because it's challenging. It's also fun because you can do things in the game that you're not able or allowed to do in real life. It's called 'escapism'. And it does not mean that the players condone any such actions in real life, just like many people who disapprove of racism will still laugh at jokes that make fun of ethnic groups.

Re:I'm pissed.

[__aamcgs2220]

OK, granted, it takes a village, but a good parent might notice that their child is spending an inordinate amount of time at one particular place. What's that, how should they know? By being good parents and finding out where their child is. Huh? How are they supposed to know what their child is doing at various other places? By being good parents and finding out what they're doing there. How are they supposed to keep up with their children when they have to work so much to pay the bills? Sell the Audi and the Volvo and buy something cheap and reliable so they don't have to work 60 hours a week, thereby allowing them to do what's more important in their lives, which is raising their children. At least where I live, parents seem to treat their kids like Paris Hilton treats her dog: like accessories. I have little sympathy unless there are some extenuating circumstances that makes it impossible to keep up with the kids. Poverty comes to mind, but this kid wasn't living in squalor. From TFA: "...Devin Thompson, when he was apprehended, told officers, 'Life is a video game. You've got to die sometime.'" If your kid has an attitude like that, you should know about it, otherwise you're a shitty parent. Up the chimney with that excuse!

Re:I'm pissed.

[crashfrog]

It's nothing but a finger-pointing game.

Sometimes fingers need to be pointed.

In the 30's, if you stuck your arm into a pulley and got it taken off, it was your fault because any idiot knows not to put their arm into machinery...

Oh? And what if you were doing nothing more than operating it the way it was supposed to be operating, and because it was poorly maintained, it malfunctioned and took your arm off? Or killed you?

I think people have a reasonable expectation that the machines they're expected to work with won't injure or kill them, and that the owners of those machines have a responsibility to ensure that's the case. Much as I think people have a reasonable expectation that spilled coffee shouldn't inflict third-degree burns over their genitals through two layers of clothing. Hence the McDonald's coffee damages.

This lawyer is a douchbag. But there are legitimate reasons for tort lawsuits. I for one don't want to live in a world where companies choose lax safety standards because its cheaper that making sure their products don't maim or kill, and I can't imagine why you would. Tort lawsuits keep that in check.

The entire country has gone to "blame someone else."

Because a surprising number of times, it is someone else's fault.

Re:I'm pissed.

[lucabrasi999]

What's wrong with people that they think a game that allows you to beat up women, shoot cops and steal cars is fun?

I play a video game called Rome: Total War . In that game, I control armies with hundreds (sometimes thousands) of men. Those men march across open fields armed with swords, spears, bows/arrows, etc. Then, they kill each other in massive violent battles. I can actually see hundreds of dead bodies on the field when I am finished with a battle. When I capture an enemy city, I am given the option of Enslaving Half of that cities populace, or killing 90% of the populace in an effort to maintain control.

My game, which I love, is rated T (for Teen). Nobobody complains about the violence in my game. Why are you complaining about the violence in GTA?

Re:I'm pissed.

[jedidiah]

There are nations where 2 parent working families are pretty mundane and have been so for generations. This is still no excuse and parents from such nations would never dream of making such excuses.

The real problem is that we've become a nation of buck-passers.

Re:I'm pissed.

[hdparm]

I am a parent (x 2), too and I call bullshit. Sure, there are influences coming from everywhere - school, neighborhood, good kids, bad kids, movies, politicians, games, Internet, TV, you name it. But if we (parents) fail to build trust and respect with our children to the point where children get 'raised' by any of the above, we have miserably failed and we are the ones to take full responsibility to whatever bad thing happens as a consequence.

Re:I'm pissed.

[Leroy_Brown242]

If you are not the main influence and pillar for support and guidance in your childs life, you failed years before you realise there is something wrong.

Good parenting doesn't start durring the trouble years, it starts day 0. Well, day -270 or so, but you get the point.)

So, if you have raised a kid who can play a video game, and think it's okay to go do this, you've lost. Many, many years before, though.

Re:I'm pissed.

[eck011219]

And Simpson's Road Rage made me drive like a madman, saying things like "outta my way, you useless tool."

No, wait, I was doing that for years before we got the Playstation.

But I couldn't agree more. I've got to say, it seems like 75% of my daughter's phrasing choices and cultural interests come from what she's heard people other than us say. Grandparents, teachers and friends at pre-school, Arthur, all seem to have rubbed off on her (granted, she's only three, but the pattern is already VERY noticeable.) And taken at face value, that could make it seem like society is raising our kid. But the ability to determine right from wrong, use the appropriate references to infer the proper information from the world around her, and treat other people with kindness and compassion regardless of the cultural references she uses to do so are all up to my wife and I. As is the ability to stand up and take responsibility for his actions rather than listening to some lawyer who wants to make him a pawn in his little windmill-fighting crusade against game companies.

This is not to say that I think this kid should be strung up by his thumbs for this - he's obviously ill and needs help. Let's assume for a minute that this dunderhead lawyer is right - the game did influence him. That indicates a very unhealthy and imprintable mind, not a game that needs to be removed from stores.

While this is kind of an absurd correlation, think about what would happen if all movies were censored that contain objectionable behavior (Blockbuster tried that a few years ago, as I recall, and it was met with some glee and mostly outrage). Trying to strike any reference to the bad parts of society leads to ignorance, not security.

Re:I'm pissed.

[soft_guy]

You can do a bad job as a parent and pretty much cause a child to grow up with issues.

However, doing a good job does not 100% assure that your kid will grow up to be a good person and not a murderer. Some people are who they are despite the best efforts of caring parents.

Re:I'm pissed.

[i41Overlord]

Read about the D.C. sniper case and get back to me. That kid had no wish to kill even though he was a good shot at the range. Only after playing a video game at the insistence of the older guy, did he gain the wish to kill.

That is an extremely weak argument. Hanging around a felon isn't a bad influence, but playing video games is. Ugh. What about the millions of other kids who play the same games, how come they don't all go berserk?

Re:I'm pissed.

[WaterBreath]

Of course I completely agree with you. But there's a growing attitude in America that you shouldn't ever have to make sacrifices. Just a couple of weeks ago I heard a lady on NPR talking about how she felt it was completely unreasonable that a career might need to be sacrificed in order to properly raise a child. There was no perception that it takes more than monetary support and the occasional chauferring to raise a well-developed child. This is embodied by another quote I heard on NPR, from one of the hosts, defending the fact that his children were very well-raised. His defense: one cum laude graduate and two magna cum laude graduates. Sorry buddy, but academic achievement does not equate to balanced and well-developed individual.

Re:I'm pissed.

[Donny Smith]

> the suit says the game "trained" him to shoot those 3 men.

Only three men?
Praise the game maker!
Imagine what would have happened if the little bozo watched "Texas Chainsaw Massacre" or "Hitler: The Rise of Evil" instead!

Americans need to get themselves straight..

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't get America.. "Violent video games cause kids to commit crimes, we should ban them." Yet every motherfucking person in the Bible belt owns at least one Gun. Perhaps the kid wouldn't have shot the cops if he couldn't have got access to a Gun.

Before you moderate me flamebait.. please bear in mind that around fifty eight thousand Americans are killed by guns every year. Yes, that's around eleven times as man as in 9/11 and that is EVERY year. Bush would do a better job of protecting americans by removing firearms than countering terroism. You're more likely to be killed by a pig than a terrorist - and your around a million times more likely to be killed by a gun than by Osma.

America needs to stop living in fear and start addressing the real threats to society - one of them being the gun culture.

Yours Sincerely,

AC

Re:Americans need to get themselves straight..

[Anonymous Coward]

The people that want to ban violent video games aren't necessarily the ones that want to keep guns legal. Most of the people that support gun ownership probably also support personal responsibility.

Re:Americans need to get themselves straight..

[DeathFlame]

I live in Canada. We have lots of guns here too. We don't shoot other people.

It's not the guns that's the problem. The people that want guns to use them, will get guns.

Re:Americans need to get themselves straight..

[Monkelectric]

Here's the thing you need to know about America... its HUGE. For every thriving metropolis full of modern thought and technology there are ten backwater communities the size of small countries, who live and interact only with themselves and their small ideas, and yet still somehow get out to vote.

Heres the next thing you need to know, Americans are grown up taught that they're *special*. They deserve to be rich and famous. And when that doesnt happen they are disappointed. Lawsuits like these *are* bullshit, but they're a way to be important (and maybe rich). Combine that with a completly broken legal system (where you can get more time for copying a DVD than murder, or you can get millions for cancer caused by smoking even though you knew it was bad for you), throw in our completely unscrupulous lawyers and corporations who have used lawsuits as weapons against the people for years, and people think its ok to sue for things like this.

Just about *EVERYTHING* here in the US needs an overhaul... and nothings getting it

Does anyone know...

[00squirrel]

...the exact date personal responsibility died?

We've discovered the cause...

[Nijika]

Finally, we can lay off the easy access to guns, apathetic education, parental neglect / abuse, drugs, low self-esteem, and a rampant culture of violence and consumerism... The real culprit here was a video game.

one quote sums this up

[Anonymous Coward]

"There are more love songs than anything else. If songs could make you do something we'd all love one another." --Frank Zappa

Games? Alcohol? Any Difference?

[stinerman]

Alcohol-related accidents kill people every day. I don't see anyone trying to put Budweiser or Anheuser-Busch out of business.

It seems rather odd that if video games influence poor decisions, it is the fault of the game manufacturer and/or distributor, but when people make bad decisions and drive when drunk, its just the fault of the person.

I love double standards.

If suing video game developers is fair game..

[defile]

..then so is suing priests, politicians, and Dr. Phil.

If I said the President of the United States taught me that solving problems with violence was appropriate, which is why I shot my next door neighbor, I'd be called a lunatic. But if I say video games made me do it, I'm just a victim?

What a scumbag

[pclminion]

'What has happened in Alabama is that four companies participated in the training of Devin... to kill three men,'

I can't believe he can seriously make this argument. I've played the same game and seen the same things in that game as this kid did. I have no desire to commit violent acts because of that.

What happened here is that an individual who was predisposed to violent behavior saw some other violent behavior and (perhaps) modeled it.

According to this guy's sick logic, we should not report crimes in the newspapers or on television because the details of those crimes will motivate other people to commit them. While it is true that people do copycat crimes, they do them because they are criminals, not because of what they saw.

Question

[thefatz]

What entertainment value vs. educational value does a game solicited towards minors which promotes violence against authority figures have? Would the concept of having students entertaining with video games which promotes or otherwise displays strong violence, listen to music on over the air radio broadcasts which promotes or otherwise condones violence, watch TV programs which promotes, displays, and or condones violence in various fashions and physical degrees? Would the consideration of programs on HBO, or various urban rap songs, lyrics and artists which promotes prison has the gangsters paradise be any consideration in the proliferation of violence in students minds?

Would the thoughts of the freedoms we enjoy come back and haunt us? Ever?

Would a society where its children drink two or three soda's a day, eat a hamburgers several times a week, watch various degrees of violence on TV, listen to on radio or music with phrases like "pimp my ho" and "nasty bitchs" and other choice "Ghetto is good"(TM) phrases, or entertains via internet or games with violence the only option, be destined for self destruction?

I'm sure I will be attacked as a troll or zealot or religious fanatic or something of that sort, doesn't matter. What does matter is the simple thought of society training children and students with everything they don't need for a healthy life style. You teach your children to talk through example. You teach your children to dress, act, and interact through example. Why cant a teenager wait to drive, cause he wants what has been around his set as an example.

Same thoughts apply to violence. Everything is set through example.

No difference at all.

[saddino]

Just to expand on your point: a number of violent crimes (assault, battery) are committed by drunk people, especially domestic crimes (spousal and child abuse).

"Alcohol is associated with a substantial proportion of human violence, and perpetrators are often under the influence of alcohol." -- Eighth Special Report to the U.S. Congress on Alcohol and Health

So, it's no secret that alcohol can be abused to the detriment of society. But, the counterargument is this: most people who consume alcohol commit no crimes at all. Thus, alcohol does not cause violence, it simply makes violent people more violent.

This applies equally to movies, video games, rock/rap music and other targets of these self-proclaimed "moralists."

This kid was already violent. And mort importantly: one out of millions does not prove causation between GTA and violence.

Similarly

[YrWrstNtmr]

What's wrong with people that they think a game that allows you to beat up women, shoot cops and steal cars is fun?

People also think a game that allows
- taking a rocket launcher and shooting someone in the face is 'fun'
- taking a broadsword and hacking off an opponents arm is 'fun'.
- driving at triple digits on public roads is 'fun'.
- building a rollercoaster that is designed to crash is 'fun'.
- having a giant ape throw boulders at you is 'fun'.

Games are escapism. Deal with it.

How'd he do it?

[cayenne8]

Heck...I'm wondering a bit on how badly trained, or out of shape these police officers were. They let a minor steal a gun from one officer...get off 3 kill shots, and he escaped in a police car...FROM the police station?

Not to be morbid, but, the game trained a kid to do all that, I'd say the POLICE need to be playing more GTA themselves.....