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London Nuke Plant Loses 30 Kilos of Plutonium

solafide writes "The Globe and Mail reports 'A British nuclear-reprocessing plant [at Sellafield] cannot account for nearly 30 kilograms of plutonium, but authorities believe it is an accounting issue rather than a loss of potential bomb-making material, the United Kingdom Atomic Energy Authority said.' Although it says later plutonium is only 1% of what they deal with there. The Times Online has more details."

18 of 613 comments (clear)

  1. London is nowhere near Sellafield. by Rexz · · Score: 5, Informative

    I don't say that Boston is the same as New York. Please don't do this to my country.

    1. Re:London is nowhere near Sellafield. by WIAKywbfatw · · Score: 4, Informative

      Also, since you have no real open land in the entire country, it all looks like one large, connected city.

      Making a "mistake" like saying a city is near another is very easy to make.

      Quot Erat Demonstrandum


      You carry on being ignorant, OK? "No real open land"? LMAO. What we have might not be on the same scale as the great swathes of untouched country that you'll come across in parts of North America but it's beautiful enough and nowhere near to the mental picture you seem to be painting of a landscape that's concreted over entirely.

      Saying that Sellafield is anywhere near London isn't a small mistake, it's a huge one. In fact, in this case the story headine is extremely misleading as it gives the immediate impression that the nuclear plant is in London, which isn't just false but is rather stupid too (given that we're talking about a nuclear facility). It's like suggesting a nuclear plant somewhere in southern California is actually in Los Angeles, which is just plain dumb.

      Sorry but at best you come across as foolish and at worst you come across as downright ignorant. Stick your poor QEDs and half-thought out arguments somewhere where they aren't likely to be ripped apart by simple argument. Next time, think first and type later.

      --

      "Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
  2. Re:Bomb em! by amliebsch · · Score: 5, Informative

    To pre-empt the tin-foil hatters: it is not possible to construct a nuclear weapon from power-grade plutonium, and terrorists do not have the technology to refine it into weapons-grade plutonium. However, it would make a nasty dirty bomb.

    --
    If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
  3. Jokes by Bonhamme+Richard · · Score: 5, Informative
    You all joke, but a nuclear submarine goes around the world on a lump the size of a golf ball.

    A nuclear weapon only uses about a grapefruit sized piece of fissionable material.

    And only about 8 grams of matter were actually converted to enegery by the original nukes used against Japan.

    30 kg missing seems like a big deal to me. I'd like to know for sure whether its an accounting issue or someone else has it.

    1. Re:Jokes by Powertrip · · Score: 5, Informative

      Let's see, if the grapefruit I ate this morning was about 12cm in diameter the total approx. volume would be about 864cm^3. Plutonium has a typical denisty of 19.84g per cm^3, giving us a total weight of 17.062Kg.... Thats a darn heavy grapefruit! Brad

  4. For any Americans who are reading... by BovineSpirit · · Score: 5, Informative

    Sellafield is right up in the north west of england. London is in the south east. The people who decided where to put Sellafield(then Windscale) are, however, based in London. Strangely they decided the best place for it was as far away as possible.

  5. Trigger-happy reporting? Not on /. ! by toby · · Score: 5, Informative
    As usual, a quick cross-check would have revealed that this story has been subsequently qualified in the UK press as somewhat less of the sensation initially implied:
    British Nuclear Fuels, which runs the Sellafield nuclear complex in Cumbria, claimed yesterday that no nuclear material had gone missing from the site ... a spokesman for BNFL said similar discrepancies have been recorded in audits since 1977, and do not represent real losses of radioactive material ... it is impossible to know precisely how much plutonium is at a nuclear site. Plutonium is created inside nuclear fuel rods while reactors are running, so scientists can only estimate how much plutonium is in them. Only when spent fuel rods are reprocessed, by dissolving them in acid to separate out the plutonium, uranium and other materials, can the true quantities be measured...
    --UK Guardian, 18 Feb 2005.
    --
    you had me at #!
  6. Why this makes sense by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 4, Informative

    If you reprocess tons of spent fuel then those little fraction-of-a-percent measurement errors add up. Also, in a big plant you could have an ounce of plutonium stuck in a filter one place, another ounce elsewhere, and add up to tens of kilos.

    What's scary is that the margins of error are big enough to include several bombs worth of material.

  7. A little out of date, /. by saundo · · Score: 4, Informative

    The BBC has had this story since yesterday!

    From what I read on http://news.bbc.co.uk, the "missing" plutonium was a result of the way in which material was accounted for, not an actual loss.

    --
    -- The problem with troubleshooting is that sometimes trouble shoots back.
  8. Re:Bomb em! by cameldrv · · Score: 5, Informative

    That's not exactly true. Several governments have investigated the possiblity of making bombs from mixed-isotope Pu. It is possible. However even the best designs have a chance of a fizzle due to premature fission when the critical mass is being compressed. Making a bomb from power grade Pu is definitely quite a bit harder than making one out of pure Pu-239, which is harder than making one out of Uranium.

  9. Re:Bomb em! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative
    The first article linked doesn't say what grade of plutonium it is, and the second article seems to be playing silly buggers right now. But to expand on this: "weapons grade plutonium" is 93% pure Pu-239. If there's more than 7% Pu-240 in the mix, the chances are that the Pu-240 will spontaneously fission, making it next to impossible to assemble a critical mass that is necessary for the nuclear explosion.

    Power grade plutonium doesn't have that problem to the same extent, because the reaction doesn't have to happen at a precisely controlled moment.

    Separating out Pu-239 from Pu-240 is a similar problem to separating U-235 from U-238: slow, tedious, and lots of centrifuges and similar. Because the relative weights are so close together, it's a significantly harder problem. This is why the production of weapons grade plutonium requires very regular reprocessing of fuel from the reactor core; otherwise, you'll get too much Pu-240, and it becomes too hard.

  10. Re:Bomb em! by billsoxs · · Score: 4, Informative

    While the radiation is a problem - the chemical issues with Pu are almost worse. The stuff is more poisonous than Arsenic

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  11. Re:Bomb em! by darkonc · · Score: 4, Informative

    Depleted uranium doesn't have much of a 'dirty bomb' problem... Just a general chemical problem -- not that much different from what you'd get from burning lead, nickel, or cobolt. Plutonium is more like arsnic with heavy cancer causing problems added in.

    --
    Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
  12. London!? by qqod · · Score: 4, Informative

    Sellafield is nowhere near London. It's about a 300 mile drive away according to Multimap. It's at the complete opposite side of the country.

  13. Oxidation states by orzetto · · Score: 5, Informative

    You're right, I'd like to point out also that the same atom can have different toxicity depending on its oxidation state. If you have seen Erin Brockovich, where the whole case was Cr(VII) being measured with the emission limit of Cr(III), causing poisoning among the population, well that's the same thing.

    U and Pu are actinides, and that means they can have many different oxidation states, each with its own chemistry.

    This is also why lead in gasoline and paint is carcinogen, while veterans have lived with lead bullets in their body for decades.

    --
    Victims of 9/11: <3000. Traffic in the US: >30,000/y
  14. Re:Bomb em! by stevelinton · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's not any particular lump(s) of Pu that are missing. I think they took in some used fuel rods and estimated somehow how much Pu was in it. Then, when they reprocessed them they found they had slightly less Pu than they expected.

  15. Re:Bomb em! by arivanov · · Score: 5, Informative

    Depleted uranium has the problem of "Journalist Blame" attached to it. It was heavily used in Gulf War 1 and the Serbian Bombings and the areas where it was used are suffering cancer rates between 10 and 50 times above the world average. This was erroneously blamed on it.

    The reaility is that the cancer rates around Basra, parts of ex-Ugo, Western Bulgaria, Western Romania and so on are caused by the choice of targets for "shock and awe" campaigns.

    The shock and awe campaigns blanket bombed into oblivion the industrial potential of the target countries - Iraq and Serbia. This industrial potential was mostly built in the late sixties and early seventies using enormous quantities of Asbestous and plastics that emit carcinogenous chemicals when burning. All this got released when they were bombed back into the stone age.

    Which in turn resulted in tens of thousands of people to die, dieing or who shall die of cancer in the targeted areas and the areas downwind from it (Bulgaria and Romania on the Balkans and Iran in the Gulf).

    This has been blamed by various shallow journalistic research on depleted uranium. It may have a role, but it is minor. The major reason is the war crime idea of "Shock and Awe" in first place.

    --
    Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
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  16. Re:Bomb em! by sepluv · · Score: 4, Informative
    We can fairly easily determine what a nation is by looking at international bodies like the UN.
    The word, "nation" is not mentioned on the linked page. Indeed, elsewhere, the UN clearly shows that they understand the difference between a nation, a state and a country (which you clearly don't), and they also recognise the importance of nations.
    And there, the Welsh are not represented by themselves, they are represented through the UK.
    Full marks. That is because Wales is not a seperate country--a point I had actually already made in the thread you are replying to if you'd bothered looking.
    illusions of independence you want to harbor
    I don't. Like most people in Wales, I am not in favour of us being an independent state...heck, even Plaid Cymru are not.
    Wales is no more a "nation" than Texas is.
    No Texas is a state (but probably not a nation) within the country of the US. Wales is a principality and a nation (now with its own legislative National Assembly thanks to the UK gov.) within the country of the UK. Bug difference. Are you by any chance in the US (going by your lack of knowledge of geography)?

    Please refer to the entry for the word, nation, in your nearest dictionary and stop bothering me. Or if you don't have one of those, look at the entries for country, nation and state on Wikipedia.

    --
    Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley
    [This post is in the public domain (copyright-free) unless otherwise stated]