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Can TiVo be Saved?
ChipGuy writes "TiVo's death watch has begun. The company is having a tough time finding traction in the marketplace, as more and more competitors rush into the market, most of them deep pocketed satellite and cable companies. But is all lost? What if the company went private and became the anti-cable, letting us download, store, organize, and serve media from both cable and -- this is the important part -- the internet.
Others believe that TiVo should get into the content aggregation business."
Can TiVo Be Saved? - Feb. 22 (Answer: NO)
Will New Apps Keep TiVo Afloat? - Feb. 16 (Answer: NO)
Has TiVo's Fate Been Sealed? Jan. 17 (Answer: NO)
The No's have it now Die TiVo Die!
News Reporters Make Tasty Polar Bear Treats!
Canadians with TiVo are already doing this since they don't have access to the official TiVo service. Presumably, we'd have to start doing it in the US, too. The basic idea is that you have a "dummy TiVo service" for your box to log into. The dummy service, in turn, downloads programming info in XML format, much like MythTV. The data is then reparsed so that the Tivo unit can understand it. I'm just praying someone will make a Knoppix CD that can automate all that if/when the time comes.
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
Cable companies are generally not known for their ability to innovate technology or to produce compelling products such as set top boxes like TiVo with new and advanced features
... Not even the telcos can touch that (for the moment - they're getting DAMN close)
tee hee. Thanks for the morning laugh. You've obviously been at Tivo too long. What the cable companies have done with their little one-way coax network defies belief... Trust me. I work for one (sort of... long story). Try to find another single service provider who can give you everything the cable plant does on 2 conductors. Cable (analog/digital), VOD, Broadband, VoIP, FM radio, other misc data services (ie Alarm monitoring)
However, the lack of a decent set-top box on our own network (Rogers, Canada) is frustrating. Its far superior to the dish folks - dual tuners, and the ability to record VOD programming etc. However, the user interface is lacking these days... And that I blame entirely on the manufacturers. In our case, Scientific Atlanta. They keep innovating - using the same software. For instance, the new SA 8500 (i think?) box that is coming out will be able to serve video off its hard drive to any other SA set-top... ANY explorer set top. That's saying something. The exlorer 2000 is one outdated piece of kit. But guess what, its still supported by the latest feature sets.
PowerKey is the base, but SARA - the top-level GUI, looks like somethiing out of 1994. It is so long overdue for an overhaul I've generally stopped complaining about it.
That being said, the SA boxes have one SERIOUS advantage over other solutions - they're a bit bucket. When you record the NFL game in HD on an 8000HD, it is simply caching the stream. No transcoding. When you play it back, the signal is identical to the live broadcast. So... until CableCard 2.0 comes out (ETA: 12 months?) TiVo and others are left in a bit of a lurch. But, if you survive the wait, there will be NO excuse for giving the cablecos a run for their money. I hope you do. Maybe SA will finally update SARA!
I have/had three TiVos.
I loved TiVo when it came out and bought the lifetime subscription. I was pretty certain that it would be worth it, and it was. I think it paid for itself in like 2 or 3 years. Then, when my first unit died, I was able to transfer the lifetime subscription to another machine. That was nice.
Then, I bought another one for the basement. I wanted to get the lifetime subscription, but at the time they had a deal for the monthly fee and not for the lifetime service.
I did the math and I'd have to have the unit for like 4 or 5 years for it to be worth it. For multiple reasons, this was a little longer than I thought it might last so I got the monthly fee.
I really wanted the lifetime service and tried talking them into some kind of similar discount for the lifetime service. They wouldn't budge and probably lost out on a couple hundered bucks from me.
- Kevin
The less confident you are, the more serious you have to act.
How about this one. Seems like he's got a chip on his shoulder...
You're right in that On Demand pretty much sucks. There are hardly any programs that you would actually want to watch - unless if you have HBO, I guess. Also, the VCR-style buttons are very laggy and very annoying to use.
You're wrong in that On Demand is Comcast's answer to TiVO. DVR is Comcast's answer to TiVo. They don't advertise it yet, but if you call Comcast, they will have a DVR box installed in your home soon. For $9.99 a month you get a dual-tuner HD box with a 120GB HD. I've had it for about 2 months now and apart from the non-intuitive remote and the fact that Comcast won't implement or allow the 30-second skip, I haven't found a single thing to complain about with the box. You don't need to buy any expensive equipment and the subscription cost is loser than TiVo for what is a more capable box. That is what will kill TiVo.
Did I mention, it's HIGH Definition? I don't even have an HDTV but the HD signals are so much better than the analog signals that I find myself not wanting to watch any shows on analog anymore.
Mmmm.. Donuts
The regular tivos are certainly expensive. THe directivo, however, can be had for $99 installed. Or, if you already have directv, you can still get it for $99. Sometimes $49. Even free sometimes if you already have directv, possibly with a tivo, and ask for it.
Then add the $5/month for tivo service through directv.
hawk
I've never owned TiVo, only used it a few times. Does TiVo provide free updates to the UI/features that are useful on a regular basis?
.
Not only free, but they happen automatically.
From time to time, you end up with downloads of updated software. This tends to be piecemeal for regular tivos that get it by phone, and all at once on satellite. If it needs to, it reboots at some obscure time of the morning (I think it even worns you first).
As far as competing with cable, look at their deal with directv (which may or may not be ending, depending upon which rumors you believe). Someone is subsidizing hardware costs ($99), and it's only $5/month. And look at the portion (huge majority) of tivo subscribers with directivo . .
hawk
I was a long time Tivo subscriber. Then I bought an HDTV.
I knew that I would need to upgrade my Tivo to support HD. I was hit by sticker shock!!! $1000 smackeroonies for the Directv-Tivo unit that supports HD. I explored other options. Low and behold, Dish Network had a similiar unit which i could rent for $5 a month.
I will spare you the details since you can do math. But my thought process was this, the useful life on something like this is 3 years before new tech is needed.
$1000 over three years versus $5 a month over three years. That's an $800 dollar difference. You can guess what this Tivo subscriber did.
Those who can do... Those who can't get a certification from Cisco or Microsoft.
Actually, the TiVo "lifetime" subscription is min(the TiVo unit's lifetime, company lifetime). Of course the only parts of the TiVo prone to failure are the hard drives and modem; the hard drive is replaceable, and the modem is circumventable. So you could say the effective lifetime of a TiVo unit is unlimited.
Absurdity: A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion. -- Ambrose Bierce
- ReplayTV doesn't store content which you don't specifically request. No Tivo commercials or content taking space you allocated to a show you wanted to record.
- Tivo's season pass works better than ReplayTV which doesn't understand episode repeats.
- ReplayTV has the 30 second skip missing from cable/dish PVRs
- One ReplayTV model had the commercial skip feature.
- Newer ReplayTV models let you share content with other ReplayTV boxes or PCs.
I've been considering the Dish 921 PVR with two HD tuners. You can record two shows and watch stored content from a third. They recently cut their price in half to about $500. I'm told the menuing sucks and the record function works like a VCR by time and misses a show if the time changes after programming. Anyone else using the Dish 921?signature pending slashdot approval
$99 is expensive? That's what I've seen Series II boxes going for.
The cable company product most definitely is NOT a better product. Can you fast forward through American Idol? Not on some Comcast supplied boxes. That's just a preview of what you can expect in the future as your ability to fast forward, skip commercials, retain recordings for long times, etc.. is stripped from those boxes.
the major advances in civilization are processes which all but wreck the societies in which they occur - A.N. White
In the UK, DVRs are already commodities. The model I have (Humax 8000T) costs $220, with no subscription. My parents have the Thomson DHD4000, which can record two channels at once and play a third, and that costs $250 - again with no subscription. There is a free 14 day TV guide that comes over the air, although the advanced scheduling that Tivo provides isn't available. However, the BBC and others have been researching embedding URL type metadata, called Content Reference IDentifiers, into TV programmes. This information will allow you to automatically record all programmes in a series, perhaps even from a trailer. Take a look at TV Anytime http://www.tv-anytime.org/
No. DirecTV has made it clear that they want all the dollars, so they're going to roll their own. It's a shame, really, as the concept for the MPEG4 boxes is very interesting - one server (4 tuners, 250-400GB) connected to remote set top boxes. Pick your remote box as SD or HD (per your set). All the content is shared on the main box. With TiVo, I had hopes of a really nice interface, with DTV calling all th shots, it's probably not going to be pretty.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
It probably isn't being modded up because a Tivo/NetFlix coop is already in the works.
e k/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5915470/site/newswe
-9mm-
But here's the question... how the hell does a Tivo box that's sitting on a shelf above the satellite reciever change the channel as needed? What kind of weird wiring hack did you have to do to get that to work?
The same way a Tivo sitting on the shelf above the cable box changes channels - there's a little IR emitter that you position in front of the box, and the Tivo sends the appropriate commands to change the channel.
With some model satellite receivers (DirecTV only, I think), the serial port on the back of the Tivo hooks up to the serial port on the back of the receiver and changes channels that way.
Good Eats was bouncing all over the schedule, and I never missed a single new episode.
That's a good show, BTW.
My DVR is the Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8300 (I think) offered by Cox. Perhaps Time Warner offers a better service, but when you have over 200 channels, browsing by title or genre is, for me, a frustrating waste of time.
This is especially true when the "genre" is just "Movie". I mean, there is a big difference between, say "War And Peace" and "Earnest Goes To Camp".
The TiVo Wishlist function is fantastic. For instance: I was watching the "Foyle's War" series on PBS last year. The star of that series is Michael Kitchen. I liked it so much, that I set up a wishlist to find any programs with Michael Kitchen in them.
The cable-supplied DVR probably looks great to anyone who has never used a TiVo before, but I've become spoiled.
Proverbs 21:19
Not to sound pessimistic, but what happens to all the Tivo boxes if the subscription Tivo relies on goes away? Can they be converted to work with other schedulers? Would they at least maintain a basic 'dumb' disk-based VCR like capability?
Series 1 boxes stay as 'dumb' VCRs. Series 2 boxes, apparently not.
However, the TiVo is very hackable, and people (reportedly) know how to add guide data. Such hacks are unreleased now out of respect for TiVo, but if they go out of business they'll probably be available.
Not sure why your parents can't watch one recorded program while they are recording another, but ...
http://www.tivo.com/5.3.1.1.asp?article=234
1/6/2005
TiVo Developing High-Definition, Digital Cable Ready DVR
TiVo® DVR with CableCARD Will Offer Flexible, Fully Featured Platform for Accessing HD Broadcast and Broadband Content
January 6, 2005 - CONSUMER ELECTRONICS SHOW, Las Vegas, NV - TiVo (NASDAQ: TIVO) today will demonstrate a high definition, digital cable ready DVR that will enable TiVo subscribers to access the growing number of high definition broadcasts available over the air or through their cable provider without a separate set-top box. The DVR will support CableCARD technology, enabling consumers to access their favorite premium and HD cable channels with the ease of use and powerful search capabilities of the TiVo® service. Moreover, as part of the "Tahiti" strategy announced at CES today, the new DVR will also allow consumers to access, download, and manage broadband content.
"We believe that the deployment of CableCARD technology is an essential development for the future of digital television. By eliminating the need for a separate set top box, consumers will enjoy more choice and flexibility over their entertainment delivery," said Mike Ramsay, chairman and chief executive officer, TiVo. "TiVo will play a key role in driving this technology forward to bring it to the masses."
TiVo's HD CableCARD DVR will be a premium product marketed toward consumers that want the very best in home entertainment. Consumers will be able to record their favorite entertainment from many different sources - high-definition channels, premium cable channels, and video content available via broadband.
CableCARDs free consumers from needing a cable set top box and offer consumers choice in how they get their digital entertainment. By providing consumer choice, companies like TiVo can provide an alternative to the traditional cable set top box and offer innovative services and content that address the consumer's personal interests.
The new HD CableCARD DVR is in development and TiVo plans to launch the product early next year.
For more information about any of the announcements made by TiVo at the Consumer Electronics Show, please visit www.tivo.com/ces.
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