Slashdot Mirror
France National Library Attacks Google Book Effort
An anonymous reader writes "The National Library of France is not happy with Google's effort to scan and integrate millions of books into its Web search. Jean-Noel Jeanneney, President of the library, wrote in an editorial that he is concerned Google's initiative to digitalize volumes at five leading libraries will reflect a unipolar worldview dominated by the English language and American culture. Jeanneney is pushing for European libraries to follow in Google's footsteps. Google said it was surprised by Jeanneney's remarks and noted, 'This is a first step for us; we can't do everything at once.'"
If you'd have bothered to read the editorial, you'd find that "attack" is perhaps not the most appropriate word to use. Rather, M. Jeanneney calls on his own country to get its act together and do the same sort of thing as Google for the sake of keeping the Internet from becoming even more of a monoculture than it is today. What, exactly, is so bad about that?
He's not attacking Google. His main point is "look at what Google is doing--we should be doing the same thing, for the sake of preserving our culture!"
Can the inflammatory headline. It's designed to get a cheap rise out of simple-minded people, and it doesn't make Slashdot look good. There's nothing wrong with what this guy is saying--and if he's attacking anybody, it's his own countrymen, not Google.
Obliteracy: Words with explosions
Yes, naturally since France was mentioned in the headline, we have to cue the French bashing right away instead of looking at the real cultural issues being discussed.
The fact is - whether for right or wrong - France has long kept a strong interest in preserving their language. For a long time, American English attempted to do the same (that lasted up till the early/mid 1800s, on a less formal level - the rate of adoption of Native American words, for example, into English was incredibly slow during this time; British English by comparison changed far faster than American English). The French government, across administrations, has fought the adoption of imported words into their language.
This google initiative is - perhaps rightly, perhaps not - seen as a threat to maintaining the integrity of the French language. I think the approach called for was appropriate - instead of trying to force Google's hand, they instead called for European libraries to follow Google's lead.
"Lock and load, Brides of Christ!"
Ok, I'll bite this one for a change.
I don't expect any slashdotter to actually even care for the original article (yes, the one in French) but just the summary ... let alone try and translate it with babelfish.
Here's basically what this fellow French dude says : Google, an american company, is trying to digitalize books, let's team up as europeans to continue to bring our own litterature on the web as well.
Of course his first few lines sound very anti american, just as the first few posts talked about frogs and all :)
This is not as much towards google as it is towards the French government and other EU countries.
Si la vida me da palo, yo la voy a soportar Si la vida me da palo, yo la voy a espabilar
International language for business, yes, but French literature (and indeed German) is to be treasured and I, for one, agree that this should be acknowledged...
Well then, feel free to acknowledge and treasure it - on your own dime and with your own effort.
But I figure if Google is footing the bill for this, they're entitled to treasure and acknowledge whatever they damn well please, or not.
is it more fair for french libraries to donate free labour to google's for-profit venture?
there is a point to be made here about the state of the internet in general. nearly half of the world's population are indian or chinese. they have cultures and histories longer and deeper than that of western europe and certainly north america. yet, on the web those cultures are all but invisible.
history, it seems, will no longer be "written by the victor" but "written by those with a broadband internet connection".
2 1337 4 u!
The whole point of the guy's editorial was: if English language works are the only ones that become searchable this way, that's going to make those works more influential. He's trying to get funding to do exactly what you're talking about -- granted, not to give to Google gratis.
I love how /. readers who didn't even bother reading the story are now accusing him of cultural bigotry, though. Very edifying -- though not in the way our posters intend. It's not like the guy is, oh, a librarian who actually considers what he's saying because he's trying to provoke a response in order to get funding, or anything. Must just be jealous of America. Yeah, that's it...
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
I'm actually a dual citizen of both the US and France, and guess what? BOTH COUNTRIES ARE FULL OF STUCK UP IDIOTS! Get it through your head. The difference is that the American language is not regulated the same way the French language is. France has the so called "Academie Francaise" which defines the official french dictionary definitions and which terms are what. The fact that the people in that institution are old and old-fashioned (they don't even write using ball point pens, which I find preposterous, they use goose feathers instead) is just secondary to the importance of such institution. The fact is that France, because of the Academie Francaise, is preventing language degeneration, unlike in the US, where any word you want you can put in a dictionary and people will start to use it. Spelling is also an issue. French and English both have roots that go back very far, but English has evolved and degenerated so much that in fact there are now at least two english languages: American english and British english, with different spelling and grammar rules. French is still very much held together, and the ethymology of French words is easier to retrace, because in many cases the spelling still reflects the origin of a given word. Now, to answer your stupid post about French hating google, that's not even true. Afore-mentioned Academie Francaise has included "googler" as an official vocabulary verb with all it's declinations in all tenses in their official dictionary about three years ago. Also note that the reason I don't like jokes about French is because people in France always made jokes about Americans. I hate discrimination both ways, not just one way. I got my French classmates to not joke about Americans, I hope I can get my American classmates to not joke about French people. It's just a matter of respect.
---- I am certain of only one thing : I know nothing else.
You do not have to. France does use Google and Jeanneney too. We do not hate Google and neither does he.
He simply points out that the effort led by Google, if is successfull, will once again be a powerfull tool to strengthen English (and US thinking) as the dominant cultural reference, and that this is a threat for all other cultures that imperils them a bit further.
He just calls for his European colleagues to join an effort to accept the challenge and match it in our European way, which does not always goes through private companies, although it often does. As far as I understand Google's reaction from the linked article, they do understand his point of view. I rather trust Google, but I understand what Jeanneney means and I approve his call.
How on earth does it come that any call for a non-american effort is immediately labeled as a threat to America? Why are so many Americans surprised when one states out that the disapearance of local cultures in the mainstream medias (TV, movies, Internet, scientific publications...), because they are overwhelmed by US might, is a pity, a loss to the entire humanity?
Fortunately, GwBush has just saved the French fries from oblivion. But French bashing continues unabated.
I am not Remy Mouton, unfortunately: http://remy.mouton.free.fr/art/
You constantly use the word degenerate.
Why do you and the French insist that languages are static and worthy of preservation?
You realize that all languages change throughout time, right?
By your logic, if a language changes in a given culture, then it's not evolving, but degenerating?
Can you take a wild guess as to why the French are viewed as being stuck up?
About the American companies:
I live in Huntsville, AL, whose main industry is military R&D contracting. This city makes its living off of American militarism.
I have never seen anyone as hawkish as some of these contractors. Most actual members of the military I know are either opposed or ambivalent to the war, or support it only insofar as they support their comrades-in-arms (and don't really stop and consider whether the conflict is just).
The contractors, however, scare me sometimes. Not all of them, of course... but the "nuke the sonsofbitches and let God sort them out" attitude seems much more common among the people who get paid to make the bits that do the nuking yet don't have to be directly involved in the process.