Software Patents Affecting Futures Exchanges

KontinMonet writes "The Financial Times reports European exchanges, brokers and traders are preparing for possible legal battles with Trading Technologies, a US software company. The situation is being made harder for potential defendants because the cases so far have all been sealed. No doubt, all those IP lawyers think this is a good thing..."

Comments

It's going to be traumatic...

[ites]

My Belgian company (which spent a couple of years developing a very sophisticated SMS product) got a phone call and then an email from some guy who has a US patent on a very broad and shallow aspect of our work. His claim: you are totally infringing, stop selling your product and sell mine. My answer: since when does a US patent apply in Belgium? Him: Ah, in about... (checks watch) 18 months.

My point being: I've asked the EPO several times in the past whether I could patent aspects of our company's software R&D, they have always rejected this out of hand. I know that they have allowed software patents anyhow, if described sufficiently bizarrely.

But if a flood of US software patents hits the European market it will have the effect of killing the European technology business almost overnight.

We have, so to speak, no immunity.

Do I live under Republican US law or something?

[t_allardyce]

Im not trolling or anything, but how about we Europeans just ignore everything the US says law wise, treat their patents as null and void, and basically tell companies they can either trade with us or have a nice cup of STFU and we, and the rest of the world will live happily ever after.

Re:Do I live under Republican US law or something?

[Flyboy Connor]

but how about we Europeans just ignore everything the US says law wise, treat their patents as null and void,

Basically, US patents ARE null and void in the EU. They only hold in the US. The problem is that if a company wishes to sell something to a US-based firm, that firm will need to comply to US patent law. The company, if based in the EU, has nothing to fear, but its clients have. And these clients may ask for indemnification from the company, which the company is probably unwilling to provide.

So what I expect to happen, is that many European companies will not trade with the US anymore. This is probably a big step in getting the US a saner patent system anyway.

Re:Open letter..

[js7a]

That letter basically amounts to blackmail;

"Take this offer, because the next will be worse..."

Blackmail is a threat to expose embarassing information unless paid off.

Extortion is a threat against property or persons unless paid off.

Threatening to worsen the terms of a license to GUI software patents if it isn't accepted is neither. It is, however, criminally stupid in the present Euorpean patent law environment.

Re:Open letter..

[gl4ss]

it's a letter that reasons why the following would be true: "The solution that TT has offered to each of the 'big four' exchanges is as follows:
TT and the participating exchange (PE) would guarantee each other level access, permanently.
Inside the world of PE futures and future options (this includes traders, customers, FCMs, ISVs, exchanges, etc.), TT would forfeit the right to be the aggressor in any patent infringement lawsuit, permanently; in that way allowing absolutely anyone to use TT's current and future patent protected concepts any way they desire.
TT would receive from PE 2.5 cents per side for every PE future and future option transaction, permanently."

then they go on rambling abou "competition, competition, competition", apparently it's just for eveyone else since they want permanently 2.5c on any transaction made(with no way to end the agreement). basically tt could just sit on their asses after that and keep receiving money to the end of the world even when their patents expire! the letter is also full of stuff that you would expect to find from a 419 letter(using capitals in wrong place, yes i know the irony in that i don't usually bother with them myself, also they ramble a fair amount on how the 'customers' would benefit from this 2.5c agreement, make zillions with their magic technology and so forth).

amazing that they got such advanced tech.. yet need to protect it with sealed court procediings(if it's so much out there that they need go around suing people, do they really have something unique?).

Re:Software patents in Europe

[Halo1]

First off, lots of European software companies own patents.

75% of already granted European software patents are owned by US and Japanese companies. European companies have only something like 20% of all granted software patents.

Not specifically on software, but on processes.

US companies also patent processes implemented in software (to buy something with one click of a mouse, to load certain kinds of XML information, ...), and not individual computer programs.

A very nice report was published recently by the European Parliament's Directorate General on Economic and Social Policy, which completely debunks the "computer-implemented inventions are entirely different things that software", and which confirms that the European Patent Office's practice is not all that different from US practice.

The report is linked at the bottom of this PR.

These are permitted. Say for example an new process for compressing an image, or for searching. That is patentable, whheter it's software or not.

Compressing an image is generally plain maths, and "mathematical processes" are not (should not be) patentable in Europe. Of course, the EPO (with the help of enterprising lawyers appealing to its Technical Board of Appeals) has found ways to interpret the European Patent Convention to get around this. I'm also not sure how you can say in general that "searching" is patentable.

Secondly, most of these European software companies also patent their inventions in the US, and are thus protected by US law against infringment of their patents in the US.

I'd be very interested in seeing any numbers you have on this. Also, whether or not we have software patents in Europe is completely independent of those companies' abilities to get software patents in the US.

Thirdly, If a US company does the same, and patents their inventions in Europe, under the European system, and then nationalises their patent in any of the European countries, they are protected against infringment in the contries they have nationalised in. Thats fair enough isn't it?

Patents are not about fairness, patents are economic means which can be used to correct an economic system running haywire due to relentless imitation. You do not introduce artificial monopolies in an economic sector because it's "fair".

Finally, what we are talking about are property rights, which are generally protected in our western societies.

You might want to look at this presentation by a lawyer and law scholar specialised in software patents on that. Trying to paint it as a "communists vs capitalists" is sooooo last 5 years (although Bill Gates doesn't seem to know that yet either).

Lile most valuable posessions (wealth), thoes who have them, want them, thoes who don have their own want to take others!

Even if you unconditionally believe that any sort of intellectual creation should be associated with the broadest possible form of property rights, there's still the problem that software patents conflict with the property rights of software authors, granted to them by copyright. They prevent the normal exploitation of their works, which is even in conflict with the often cited TRIPs agreement.

In Europe, I hope we are sophisticated enough in our appreciation of the compeating rights involved to be able to balance theese rights and accept that there is a place for patent laws that incentivise and reward creative thinking.

Again, this has nothing to do with rewards, respect for work or whatever. It's