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Nat Friedman on the Future of Collaboration

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the listen-up dept.

sp3298622 writes "Nat Friedman, co-founder of Ximian, expresses his excitement about the Hula collaboration Server, talks about the plugins in development for Evolution 2.2, the potential of XGL and the revolution of the Linux Desktop. The interview is a 30MB MP3 file."

34 of 134 comments (clear)

  1. No OGG? by zygoon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How the heck am I going to listen to this on Fedora?

    1. Re:No OGG? by Wordsmith · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's modded as funny, but this is a valid point when it comes to collaboration. If we can't all use the same resources - media files being one example - we can't effectively collaborate.

      MP3 is the defacto standard for compressed audio and WMA has major support, so virtually no one uses Vorbis. After all - most windows and mac users wouldn't know what to do with an ogg file. But mp3 is patent-constricted, so fedora users can't listen to an mp3 without going outside the distribution for semi-legal support.

      There's a collaboration problem.

    2. Re:No OGG? by Rei · · Score: 2, Funny

      There's a collaboration problem.

      When I saw the term "collaboration" in reference to someone talking about the Linux desktop, all I could think of was "if this were a KDE developer that they were interviewing, would they be talking about 'Kollaboration'?"

      I can actually picture a piece of KDE software called "Kollaboration" - perhaps a netmeeting type piece of software or something ;)

      --
      Don't take a knife to a gunfight, or even a knife to a knife fight. Take a gun to a knife fight.
    3. Re:No OGG? by LnxAddct · · Score: 3, Informative

      It doesn't matter... the company that is responsible for Fedora's development is in the US and is still held legally liable for holding US copyright law. Do you really think that if I'm based in the US and selling something to Europe, that I can violate US patent law? It works both ways as well iirc, if you sell something to us then you must respect our patents. Fedora is one of the few distros that includes only fully free software, and they stick to their guns on it. Its actually really nice running fedora and knowing that everything on there is patent free... its liberating, if you will. Of course some companies may claim otherwise with the occasional law suit ...*cough* SCO *cough*.

      Anyway... I've got two questions for you. Why would you fork Fedora when you can just plop this into /etc/ then do "yum install xmms-mp3". There your problem is solved, its not really worth a new distro to do that. My second question for you is why would you want to support a format that is patented at all( doesn't matter where). The idea is to help people realize that software patents are not acceptable and won't be tolerated. Give OGG a shot, honestly it sounds much better bit for bit (well thats obvious considering it uses more modern algorithms) and takes up less space. I only buy OGG compatible music players and right now I'm really happy with everything. I'm not sure if you use Fedora but, for more info on it FedoraFAQ is a really good resource. Take care
      Regards,
      Steve

    4. Re:No OGG? by LnxAddct · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "But mp3 is patent-constricted..."

      Yes, but whose problem is it? Refusing to use a superior and free product just because it doesn't have mass market is stupid and linux would still be no where if everyone thought like that. They should either use both formats, or tell windows and mac users instructions for playing OGG. Its a better sounding format anyway. Don't support mp3's and software patents just becuase its easy to do. Let people know that its not okay and make a difference. Real Player supports ogg (at least on linux it does, so I'd assume the windows version does too), most people have Real Player. It's people that conform into whatever is accepted at the time that stifle change.
      Regards,
      Steve

    5. Re:No OGG? by dvdeug · · Score: 3, Informative

      After all - most windows and mac users wouldn't know what to do with an ogg file

      Assuming WinAmp is installed, they'll get the nice music icon and in theory, it will automagically work without them ever knowing it was an OGG file.

    6. Re:No OGG? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      MP3 is the defacto standard for compressed audio and WMA has major support, so virtually no one uses Vorbis.

      Who said anything about Vorbis? The parent mentioned Ogg. For interviews, I'd expect that to be Ogg Speex, a codec designed especially for voice.

      But hey, everyone knows that Ogg == Vorbis, much in the same way everyone at the office uses "Microsoft 97" to surf the web and open their documents, right? And anybody who points out otherwise is a nitpicker or troll?

  2. Really, I Love You Guys by ackthpt · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Really, I love you guys, but "The interview is a 30MB MP3 file." is telling me you're fscking nuts. For how many days is he talking here? Is this 5.1 surround or something? How high a sampling rate is necessary for this kind of thing?

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:Really, I Love You Guys by Freezing+Polaris · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's 1h30 long, 48kbps. Lots of things, some of them interesting, but you've got to take your pick in all of this.

      --

      All generalizations are false, including this one...

    2. Re:Really, I Love You Guys by LuSiDe · · Score: 2, Informative

      The interview is roughly 50 minutes. The other 40 minutes are part of episode 71 of 'The Linux Link Text Show', a Linux/FOSS radio show, which was the host.

      --
      WE DON'T NEED NO BLOG CONTROL.
  3. Not for long. by Tackhead · · Score: 4, Funny
    "Nat Friedman, co-founder of Ximian, expresses his excitement about the Hula collaboration Server [ ... ]"

    Thursday afternoon is here,
    Boobies links and time for beer,
    We've been good, but we can't last,
    Hurry Slashdot, hurry fast,
    Knock your server for a loop,
    Collaborating hula hoop,
    We are those shall not mate,
    Please Slashdot, don't be late!

    - CmdrTaco and the Chipmunks

    > The interview is a 30MB MP3 file.

    Not for long, it ain't. ALVIN! Put that server cable down!

  4. Wanted: Dynamic Calendar Overlays by dsginter · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I want a calendar that I can maintain on my own, yet, allow for a dynamic overlay of a subset of this calendar to be viewed and/or maintained in other user calendars.

    For example:

    I have a work calendar and a personal calendar. It would be nice if I could see both my work calendar and personal calendar at both home and work (yes, I know it is possible to fudge this...). Also, I'd like to add my wife's calendar info to my view as well. And verse vica.

    So we can all maintain our calendars anywhere and have realtime info from anywhere. A simple sort-by would allow me to see only work or only personal, etc. Friends could publish overlays for other friends to see (allowing for public and private data, of course).

    This would be huge. Is it possible?

    As I see it, we'd need a local copy of the calendar data as well as a server copy that is publically accessible (insert security concerns here). Standardize an "overlay" file and it would be pretty simple to send someone the link to a subset of your calendar.

    I would imagine that, for tomorrow, my public-to-friends overlay would look like:

    Darren, 2/25/2005, 5PM EST to ?, Beer and movies at my place.

    --
    More
    1. Re:Wanted: Dynamic Calendar Overlays by nine-times · · Score: 4, Informative
      I might be misunderstanding what your asking for, but something like this already exists in both iCal and Evolution. You can subscribe to a calendar that's hosted on a server. Then, when you're viewing calendars, you have a sidebar with the list of calendars you have access to. Each calendar is assigned its own color, and the appointments for each persons calendar appear in the same calendar. The appointments are shown in the color associated with the calendar it's from so you can tell which appointment is whose. You can view all of them at once, or just one, or whatever combination you like. Not only can you subscribe to someone else's calendar, but you can create multiple personal calendars (home/work/whatever), each with it's own color, and do the same thing.

      Like I said, I don't know if that's what you're asking for, but if you are, it's already available on OSX with iCal and Linux with Evolution. Evolution is also being ported to Windows. Also, I wouldn't be surprised to Sunbird had similar capabilities, but I don't use Sunbird, so I'm not sure.

    2. Re:Wanted: Dynamic Calendar Overlays by coldcup · · Score: 2, Informative

      This exists already.

      http://www.apple.com/ical/

    3. Re:Wanted: Dynamic Calendar Overlays by moosesocks · · Score: 3, Informative

      Apple's iCal does pretty much what you're asking. a breif introduction on how the program works:

      events are placed on a 'calendar' which is basically a topic or category for the event. events from each calendar are overlaid on top of each other as long as you've got the little box checked next to the name of the calendar. evnts are color-coded by calendar.

      you can choose to publish any of these calendars on .mac or a WebDAV server (someone wrote a small PHP script which emulates the function of a WebDAV server, so you can do this on just about any server. the script also includes a frontend for parsing and viewing the calendars through a web browser). Other users can then 'subscribe' to that calendar, and it appears just as another calendar on the list. updates are sent and retrieved automatically in the background.

      best of all, iCalendar (formerly vCal) is an open standard, the same which was used by outlook until version 2000, and the same as is being used by the upcoming mozilla sunbird project, so in a year or so, we'll have the same functionality on all platforms

      all in all, it's my favorite of the iApps and definitely the most underused and underrated

      --
      -- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
  5. XGL seems fine, but by ardor · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I can't use it, since I do have a Geforce 6600, and afaik I can't use XGL with the X.org server. However, if I'm wrong, please post how it is possible to integrate XGL into an existing X.org server, so that I can use the nvidia glx module.

    --
    This sig does not contain any SCO code.
    1. Re:XGL seems fine, but by DreadSpoon · · Score: 2, Informative

      It can use the existing proprietary drivers. If you actually listened to the interview, Nat even explicitly says that the best driver to use right now with XGL is the NVIDIA drivers.

  6. XGL blog entry, in case of slashdotting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting
    9 February 2005 #

    I'm really tired but also very excited so I have to type a few words about something.

    David Reveman, who became a Novell employee a couple of weeks ago, has been writing a new X server on OpenGL/Glitz called Xgl. Because Xgl is built on GL primitives it naturally gets the benefit of hardware acceleration. For example, window contents get rendered directly into textures (actually they get copied once in video memory for now), and so you get the benefit of the 3d hardware doing the compositing when you move semi-opaque windows or regions around.

    But there are other benefits too. Simple GL operations on the windowing system can suddenly produce incredible results. Want live, running thumbnailed versions of iconified windows? Done. Want your six virtual desktops to be the six faces of a cube that spins, with lighting? Done.

    David has a lot of ideas like these, and you probably do too. Apple's cute hacks, like Expose, are inspirational but now that space can be ours to explore. Xgl opens up a whole world of hardware acceleration, fancy animations, separating hardware resolution from software resolution, and more.

    I'm personally pretty excited about this. I think running the X server on hardware-accelerated GL directly seems like a very elegant way to go. David was educating me tonight on how X's last lingering limitations are being cast off. With Gtk moving to Cairo, the X server running on Glitz/OpenGL, and hardware vendors providing 3d-accelerated OpenGL drivers for their cards, we will have a UI/graphics platform as powerful as OS X or Windows.

    David is going to be demoing his server at XDevConf in Boston this weekend. The source code for Xgl is here.

    Update: Thanks to David's help, I am now running Xgl on my laptop (ATI FireGL T2). Some observations: dragging windows doesn't generate any expose events, and is incredibly smooth and solid; antialiased text rendering is hardware-accelerated and so vte now screams (though it still uses all my CPU, so is not useful for compiling); it is a bit unstable, but far better than I expected.

  7. turning up the heat by bersl2 · · Score: 2

    Somebody please make sure that ATI and nVidia notice that this is on the horizon, in the oft chance that they don't hear about it.

    It's not like they couldn't handle it now, but I'd rather like it if they actively noticed and considered an additional use for their hardware.

  8. Hula main site by BlueEar · · Score: 4, Informative

    To see what Hula is about go to Hula Server site. You can also view a few screen shots

    --
    A religious war is an adult version of a fight over who has the best imaginary friend
  9. A preemptive mirror by whizkid042 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Just in case it gets slow, here is my new server (you can help me load test):

    30 mb mp3 file

  10. Does anybody else hate these audio interviews? by nicpottier · · Score: 5, Insightful


    I mean they are horrible. I know this is the latest trend, podcasting and all, but it's freaking useless.

    I don't care what Nate sounds like, I just want the content, and I want it in txt so I can index it, search against it, quote it easily etc..

    Not only are these shows just incredibly badly done (wtf is the first 3 minutes of this thing?) but the format itself is just asinine. mp3's are great for music, they are not great for interviews.

    For the love of god, at least give us a transcript!

    -Nic

    1. Re:Does anybody else hate these audio interviews? by flacco · · Score: 3, Funny
      I don't care what Nate sounds like, I just want the content, and I want it in txt so I can index it, search against it, quote it easily etc..

      well, i'm about to listen to it while taking a shower and getting ready for work.

      my apologies to anyone who just pictured me in the shower.

      --
      pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
  11. Nat = a guy to watch by Peter+Cooper · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Nat is a great guy to watch if you want ideas. His blog always has nice little insights into the technologies he's working on, or on things he thinks should exist. He has some great projects up his sleeve, particularly Dashboard which gives Tiger's Spotlight a real run for its money.. and it's all on the Linux desktop!

    1. Re:Nat = a guy to watch by nine-times · · Score: 2, Funny

      Ok, Nat, we all know you have a /. login under your own name. No more of this "Peter Cooper" stuff.

    2. Re:Nat = a guy to watch by damiam · · Score: 2, Informative

      To nitpick, Dashboard is pretty much dead. Its functionality has been absorbed by Beagle, which gives Tiger's Spotlight a real run for its money.

      --
      It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
  12. Nah. by Agent+R · · Score: 2, Funny

    30MB in MP3 format. I'd probably get 10 times the lawsuits from the RIAA. I'll pass on downloading this pup.

    --
    !@#$% whole-grain cereal. When I want fiber, I eat some wicker furniture. - G. Carlin
  13. Open Embrace and Extension by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What we really want is for Novell to license Microsoft's ActiveSync for Exchange protocol, and include a module for it in the GPL source for one of these Novell servers. So we can "embrace and extend" Microsoft's only hope of keeping their "desktop" monopoly as it moves away from Windows desktops, and onto the "Webtop", distributed across all manner of Internet devices. PalmOne has licensed it, among others, and Novell could really get the Internet Age going again with that kind of interop.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  14. no maildir support? by unger · · Score: 2, Informative

    unfortunately hula doesn't appear to support maildir. only mbox.

    the hula project also has some BS on their website about maildir being slower than mbox. this myth was disproven many moons ago:

    mbox versus maildir
    http://www.courier-mta.org/mbox-vs-maildir/

  15. Enough with the audio interviews already! by teneighty · · Score: 2, Insightful

    MP3 and other audio interviews are completely and utterly useless to me. Why? Because I'm DEAF. No "insensitive clod" appeded to the comment here, because I'm not trying to be funny. It's true. Besides, most people have a hard enough time writing in a way that is presentable to a wide audience, even after a great deal of editing - let alone SPEAKING in a way that comes across as polished. Until you can afford a studio, professional editors, and someone to transcribe your speech - please, FOR THE LOVE OF THE GODS - stick to text. It's harder to mess up with text. Trust me on this. Until we have real-time text-to-speech transcription for arbitary speakers, I'd be extremely grateful if the internet stuck to what it's good at: text. While I have my own agenda for this, there's another factor to consider: audio files cannot easily be indexed or searched, so they're really just kind of useless on the internet - after all, a great deal of the power we get from the net today comes from the information being available via search engines.

    1. Re:Enough with the audio interviews already! by alienmole · · Score: 2, Insightful

      OTOH, my girlfriend has severe dyslexia and likes audio sources. She depends heavily on audiobooks. The disability argument ultimately boils down to needing to make info available in multiple formats, not that text is better.

  16. RTFA! by wiresquire · · Score: 2, Funny

    Typical slashdot.

    Damn *no-one* has read the fucking article.

    Err, hang on....

    --

    So does Anonymous Coward have good karma?

  17. Re:Groupware BAD by splatg · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If you look into it you will discover that the main points in the above article are actually where Nat has got a lot of his inspiration for the direction of the Hula project. I have seen a few people using this article as a device against Hula, however, those attempts are really misguided.

  18. So... by samael · · Score: 3, Insightful

    when is this "Evolution" program being released for Windows?

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