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ALA President Not Fond of Bloggers

Phil Shapiro writes "American Library Association president Michael Gorman is not too fond of bloggers and blogging. '[The] Blog People (or their subclass who are interested in computers and the glorification of information) have a fanatical belief in the transforming power of digitization and a consequent horror of, and contempt for, heretics who do not share that belief... Given the quality of the writing in the blogs I have seen, I doubt that many of the Blog People are in the habit of sustained reading of complex texts. It is entirely possible that their intellectual needs are met by an accumulation of random facts and paragraphs.'"

26 of 912 comments (clear)

  1. Duh by boola-boola · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Well yeah... blogs are for people to express themselves, not a place for them to write great literary works.

    Think of your photo collection and music collection. It's just another extension of that (think DIARY).

    1. Re:Duh by GlassHeart · · Score: 4, Insightful
      blogs are for people to express themselves, not a place for them to write great literary works.

      The complaint isn't that blogs are not great works of literature, but that they're such poor specimens. Surely there's something between the average blog and "great literary works" to strive for?

    2. Re:Duh by Foktip · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Apart from that, he makes it seem as though they're "inferior" for not having read "complex texts".

      Each person chooses a way to live; people do as they please. To claim that one lifestyle is superior is hypocritical, egotistical, and superficial.

    3. Re:Duh by curunir · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think your analogy of a diary is particularly good. The vast majority of diaries never amount to anything. But some diaries become historical records that are truly valuable literary pieces. Anne Frank is the obvious example of this. Another would be all the diaries that constantly show up in shows on The History Channel. No librarian would ever think twice about having one of these works in their collection. Yet they make a big fuss about a form of media which isn't really intended to be archived. Maybe they should pay attention to the deterioration of forms of media that are supposed to be archived. The latest Grisham novel doesn't stack up too well against novels from past eras.

      I think blogs will be treated similarly to diaries by history. 20 years from now, we may see collections of important bloggings as eBooks, or however "real literature" is published at that time. But the vast majority of blogs will have vanished into the /dev/null, as it were.

      --
      "Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos!"
    4. Re:Duh by LordNightwalker · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Although his tone is condescending, was he not speaking about the quality of writing and discourse prevalent in blogs? Is this not clearly associated with one's facility with complex texts?

      No, since his whole argument was against blog entries in English (I doubt he read any blogs criticizing him in other languages than English) it is clearly associated with one's proficiency in the English language. This in turn has much to do with the culture said person originates from. The fact that a Swede who happens to blog in English produces blog entries of questionable spelling or grammar gives us no insight in his abilities to read and understand complex texts. There is more than one language out there, and not everyone can be expected to have the same level of proficiency in any one such language than the people who natively speak it. After all, I wouldn't expect you to be a more eloquent French speaker than some great French author or poet.

      Other than that, I have to agree with you that Mr. Gorman's thoughts on this whole matter are quite unintelligently worded; he probably wrote this in some fit of rage, which isn't the best time to start defending yourself in public against critique. What I found particularly ironic was how he argued that bloggers are unintelligent and inferior in the "grokking complex text" department because their skills in the English Language department are lacking, then goes on a couple of paragraphs later to state that the money invested in this new Google program would be better spent in buying new books for libraries, for example in library-starved California. Yes... It would be nice if more Californians had access to the superior option of local libraries. However, even though Google's new program may not be as elegant a solution as a humble library building stacked with books, it's a resource everyone from around the world (China and similarly censored countries not withstanding) can access.

      --
      Install windows on my workstation? You crazy? Got any idea how much I paid for the damn thing?
    5. Re:Duh by X_Bones · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That was one of the most painful posts I've ever read on Slashdot. Do you find it even the least bit ironic that your post, rife with spelling and grammatical errors (in a language-related thread, no less), was full of pretentious language and sounded exactly like the whiny blog posts you're complaining about?

      ok, apart from the wierd metaphore quite a good post methinks.

      Apparently not.

  2. Couldn't be more true by daveschroeder · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Caution: this post contains generalizations. Most of which are, unfortunately, true.

    Bloggers think they're going to be the revolution of the press, and that they'll take the place of the New York Times and Washinton Post, and Newscorp will crumble at their feet.

    Not with the half-assed misinformation and melodrama on the vast majority of the political and "news" blogs I've seen (to say nothing of the wild spitting and sputtering in the comments).

    Not as long as they have no problem with their complete and utter lack of accountability of any type, and the vicious, one-sided partisan nature designed solely to incite vitriol in their groupthink audiences.

    Not while they do nothing more than constantly pat each other on their virtual backs and reinforce their own worldviews and twisted near-conspiracy theories, ignoring any and all other sides of the story while simultaneously thinking of themselves as "open minded" and the only revealers of "the truth".

    Blogs have a place in the world of information. And, like all sources of information, I'll concede that some can, in general, build a reputation for trust and accuracy. But many, particularly political blogs, have no regard for anything but the furtherance of their own agendas, taking things wildly out of context, and going on vindictive missions to build a one-sided case to paint the target of their ire in the worst possible light, without any consideration for any other motivations or other sides of the stories.

    And they think they're the future of the media?

    No fucking thanks.

    1. Re:Couldn't be more true by trs9000 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I agree with most of what you say. The open bias of blogs does not bother me. However, there are other shortcomings. Namely, the thing I don't like about blogs (or, usually just the portrayal of blogs) is the treatment of them as writings. Indeed, I have read many posts that could be considered an article, though usually those are even on the short side of things.

      All-too-often, some blogger will post an entry regarding a very interesting and thought-provoking idea, but mostly it's a few sentences and a hyperlink. The blog entry is just an arrow, a finger pointing at the moon. Why should the blogger get credit? Not only is the idea not theirs, they also didn't even offer an in-depth analysis of it (or more often: any analysis). Quite commonly, blogs are devoid of real content. When I look at a lot of the blogs--even professional ones--and they are essentially just posting summaries and references, I question the validity of blogs as a writing medium. Which is to say, it might be one for reference or information, biased or not, but not one of substance.

      The really funny thing to me is sometimes it becomes circular, or even recursive. This blog posts about a concept via another blog which posted something they found over here which was just a little blurb about Apple buying out TiVo. Again, the idea proves very interesting--the short degrees of separation and locus of interest allow for quick news online--but it is not very weighty.

      There are, of course, exceptions to this rule. Plenty of bloggers, especially those with a political bent can get long-winded. And, furthermore, this is not to discredit the weblog as a medium. I think its pretty great and has quite a bit of potential. But I use blogs (or more specifically, their rss feeds) as information harvesters, not as sources of well reasoned, well written articles.

  3. Oh come off it Mahatma by SweetAndSourJesus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In the case of bloggers: "First they don't read your blog, then they laugh at your blog, then that's pretty much it."

    Comparing the "blogging phenomena" to the Indian independence movement is a fine way to illustrate your massive sense of self-importance, though.

    --

    --
    the strongest word is still the word "free"
  4. I don't know that he is an antidigitalist... by miu · · Score: 4, Insightful
    ...but he certainly doesn't get it.

    My piece had the temerity to question the usefulness of Google digitizing millions of books and making bits of them available via its notoriously inefficient search engine. The Google phenomenon is a wonderfully modern manifestation of the triumph of hope and boosterism over reality. Hailed as the ultimate example of information retrieval, Google is, in fact, the device that gives you thousands of "hits" (which may or may not be relevant) in no very useful order.

    If he is opposed to "inefficient search" then the Dewey Decimal system must infuriate him. Google is great for getting a rough idea of what is out there, occasionally it may lead you to something really worthwhile - but most of the time it only cuts down on the early legwork, something very worth doing.

    --

    [Set Cain on fire and steal his lute.]
  5. For a high-ranking librarian... by Sivar · · Score: 4, Insightful
    ...He's actually a pretty funny guy:
    For the record, though I may have associated with Antidigitalists, I am not and have never been a member of the Antidigitalist party and would be willing to testify to that under oath. I doubt even that would save me from being burned at the virtual stake, or, at best, being placed in a virtual pillory to be pelted with blogs. Ugh!
    I hope he realizes that while most blogs aren't worth the bytes they are printed on in terms of content, there are enough gems that one can't write the entire concept off as a bad idea. In any case, judging bloggers by the quality of their writing largely misses the point--blogs aren't supposed to be a regulated, edited, meticulously researched medium of writing--they are a means of sharing thoughts with the world without having to jump through hoops. Whether the world listens, complains, enjoys the blog, takes offense to it, or feels that the author should have gingerly lucubrated every detail as if each entry were a Nobel Prize acceptance speech is beside the point entirely.
    --
    Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes. --E. W. Dijkstra
  6. Ignorance breeds arrogance Wisdom breeds restraint by whjwhj · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Haven't we all been in a social situation (out to dinner or a bar, for example) where a serious conversation starts up about a serious topic and what ends up happening is that the folks with the least informed opinions do much of the talking, whereas the ones with a more enlightened view say very little? There must be some facet to the human condition that predicates that ignorance breeds arrogance, and wisdom breeds restraint.

    Our current U.S. political climate bears this out.

    There are plenty of articulate and educated bloggers, certainly. But there are many many more who aren't. We should slow down and think more about the quality of our information, not just the quantity.

  7. Can't replace a good book by PingXao · · Score: 4, Insightful
    "It is entirely possible that their intellectual needs are met by an accumulation of random facts and paragraphs."
    Hey, it was good enough to score a few million for Ken Jennings!

    But seriously, who thinks blogs are where great literatire is to be found anyway? The best blogs-with-a-purpose seem to be the ones that report news stories the mainstream media won't cover. The blurring of the Tinfoil Hat as it were. Anyway, when I want good literature I usually turn to a book. For example in the wake of last weekend's suicide by one of my favorite writers, Hunter S. Thompson, I decided to finally crack open a copy of Hey Rube given to me last year which I had not gotten around to reading. I found this in the Author's Note at the very beginning:
    "What has gone wrong with our communication system since then? Why are we more ignorant and less informed today than we were in 1941? ... If World War III can start in a vacuum of silence and stonewalling by the White House, we are doomed like rats in a maze of fear. We are slaves to mendacity and hostile disinformation. Bread and circuses were not enough to sustain the Roman Empire and they will not be enough for the United States of America."
    You don't need to wear a Tinfoil Hat these days to see that the plutocracy now in power in the U.S. controls the message and the media. Bloggers who attempt the lost art of Journalism can become a powerful force for truth and justice, keeping the old-guard media whores honest (if that's even possible anymore). But I don't think the ALA has to worry about dumbing down Americans' interest in literature. For 90% of the masses television finished that off decades ago.
  8. this guy is hurting his cause by wintermute1000 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm no blogging cheerleader, but the patronizing tone he uses is bound to alienate a less enthusiastic booster of the blogosphere than I. He comes across as an arrogant prig who's using his (extremely limited) bully pulpit to bash those about whom he admittedly (and rather proudly) knows little. I have nothing but regard for the ALA and love my local libraries, but this mocking, snobbish attitude isn't going to win anyone over to his side.

    What I got out of it is that the president of the ALA is afraid that his way of life and his preferred methods af acquiring information are becoming less relevant, and rather than changing the way he and his association do business, he figures he'll stand up and mock the people who are changing things in hope that others wil listen. Nice try, man.

  9. It's about links between information by yintercept · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It seems to me that blogs help people develop an understanding of the links between information. For that matter, I think the main value of blogs and homepages is the building of links between the blog and world at large. A well linked blog becomes a discussion with the world.

    In someways, blogs are a welcome relief from published literature which can be a bit too introspective or polished. I do agree with the librarian who is dismayed at the hype given blogs. Everything in computers gets overhyped. Individual blogs like mine really mean nothing. In aggregation, they provide an interesting topology of the concerns of our culture.

  10. Oh, no, not the Gandhi quote again! by ggvaidya · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I hate how often that quote is used online to support ANYTHING where one organisation ignores/laughs at/fights another one. Not blastingt the parent or anything, I guess it is appropriate to this context, but really ... in any case, I offer a contradictory Carl Sagan quote:
    They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.

    They're both true, of course, but it's silly to forget either one in a debate.
  11. He needs to get out more by serutan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If the head of the ALA were a publisher, he would know that the overall quality of bloggers' work is no worse than the output of the vast majority of so-called "writers" who submit manuscripts. The fact that some people have talent and others don't is a trivial and uninteresting observation. His reaction sounds more like resentment that mediocre authors, whose work otherwise wouldn't be published, are able to attract large audiences on the web. Maybe he thinks they don't deserve it. Or maybe there's a crumpled up rejection slip in his wastebasket.

    1. Re:He needs to get out more by joFFeman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > Maybe he thinks they don't deserve it. Or maybe there's a crumpled up
      > rejection slip in his wastebasket.

      he's the president elect of the ALA. he's not really going to be getting any rejection slips. as someone who keeps an online journal, and as the son of a librarian, i have to agree with him. that's why robots.txt has an exclude rule for my 'blog'. i don't want to pollute the contents of the internet[s]. maybe my friends enjoy what i write, and that's fine- i just think it's more responsible to keep it out of the search engines. people often go to search engines for information on a certain subject, and weblogs are all they find in the first few pages. these are mostly sources they do not know, and thus (hopefully) will not trust.

      and what he said about the quality of writing in blogs... that's quite hard to argue against. the vast majority of blogs are written by youths for youths- basically public diaries. they are wholly uninteresting as anything but what is considered 'outsider art' by hipsters, who ironically enough compose the upper echelon of the 'blogosphere'. i don't like radiohead, i don't think strongbad is funny, but i do keep a weblog. it's a way to vent, and i don't think it should be considered serious work by anyone. some bloggers are seeking journalistic integrity, and that's great. some people write novels in the form of post-by-chapter blogs. that's cool- but blogs are for the most part internet pollution, redundant, inane, ego-stroking, and self-serving.

      --
      "Life is great; without it, you'd be dead." -Harmony Korine
  12. noise issue by ethank · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think what he fails to realize is that the benefit of blogs over mainstream press is that the amount of noise present directly equates to more information from which to sift.

    In the sense of traditional information theory, noise is information (to simplify a bit). Without noise there is homogenization of signal equating to a lack of movement toward chaos or entropy. Information therefore is created by breaking down communication channels, altering the signal (in this case news) between source and destination. The creation of noise hence creates a dynamic system of information in which all elements are going toward a state of complexity.

    Complexity = good.

    When extrapolated toward blog vs. popular press, blogs present a situation in which subjective filtering and emergence from it creates the content, rather than content coming from one source.

    It is a distributed publishing model which puts the onus of interpretation, use and distillation upon the reader rather than the propagator of said content.

    So taking information theory and applying it to blogs, blogs create more dynamic states from which useful information can be gleaned, but it changes the practice of information dispersal to the extent that the hierarchy which typified the dissemination of information pre-Internet has been flattened and in some sense elimnated. No longer is there a differentiation between the reductive properties of grass-roots press and large press.

    The issue I see with this guy is not that he is a Luddite, but that he is threatened by the breakdown of the hegemony imposed previously be the hiearchy created by movable type and the publishing industry.

  13. Irony: by uhlume · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Having read TFA, I find myself struck by nothing so much as how very much like a blog entry this alleged "article" reads...

    --
    SIERRA TANGO FOXTROT UNIFORM
  14. Who should be allowed to write? by Per+Abrahamsen · · Score: 4, Insightful

    SMS, instant messaging, E-mail, message boards and blogs are all from time to time trashed by professional writters for not containing the same standard of writting as the traditional media, like (paper) letters, newspaper letter columns, and diaries (by grown-ups).

    That is probably true if you look at average numbers. Well, apart from newspaper letter columns, which I find slightly below Usenet posts in quality. And we don't really know about the private media, we tend only to see written diaries and letters from famous people.

    However, they also mean that a lot more people are writting than ever used the old media. Honestly, how many in here would ever consider writting to a newspaper letter column? And would you write long, carefully formulated letters to friends and family if you could not use SMS, IM or email? And how many of the bloggers among you would write a diary instead?

    What the professional writters are really complaing about is that they no longer have a virtual monopoly on writting. It is now for everyone. And of course, we are getting better at it. Much of the communication (like here) is done in public, and we can see which formulations get the point across and which doesn't. So while the writting may not become beautiful, it slowly becomes effective. At least for those who have anything at all to contribute.

    The other part of it is that we become less impressed by the written word, now that it has become a daily tool of our own. We are much less likely to believe in something because it is written (in a a paper or book) than our parents were. Since we know no special skills are required to write and publish, we intuitively know that the written word is no more trsutworthy than the spoken word.

    This also annoyes the professional writters, even if they don't know it.

  15. What liberal media? by gad_zuki! · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Correct. Everytime I hear the ignorant claim of "the liberal media" I politely ask the person who said this to tell my how Judith Miller got all those NYTimes (you know the big gay liberal paper) front page pieces about Iraq's WMD from anonymous sources. If they plead ignorance I then ask them to show me ANYWHERE in say, Harpers or The Nation, where those liberal stories intersect at all with what's presented on CNN et al. If they again plead ignorance then I ask them to debunk the propaganda model of media as described, with many examples, in Manufacturing Consent.

    The "liberal media" is a nice meme that helps right-wing politicians get their way and keeps their supportoers from experiencing too much cognitive dissonance. its also completely and utterly false. Bias for all commercial media outlets can be traced to the ownership of that media outlet, profitability, nationalism, and fads.

  16. To be fair... by el-spectre · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There are a lot of EDUCATED people (nationality is not important) that just like to think they are right.

    Like just about everyone. The 'Confirmation Bias' is a characteristic of human psychology.

    That said, my problem w/Fox "news" isn't that I disagree with the politics, it's the cheap pandering to the masses.

    Example: Just before the invasion of Iraq, most news channels were, reasonably enough (given that most americans at the time, when polled, were against an invasion) discussing the 'should we/shouldn't we' issue. I flipped over to fox news and every commercial break ended with a big animated flag / F-16 / eagle montage and big shiny "Freedom on the March!" banner. C'mon guys... let's try for a semblance of restaint.

    --
    "Faith: Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel." - A.B.
  17. The real problem. by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    99% of everything is crap. Blog are no different. This is their only problem. Could everyone please now shut the fuck up about blogs? Thanks.

  18. Re:Librarians by xSauronx · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Getting back to the article, I do tend to agree with the general idea that we are becoming a fast food people who just gobble information without thinking of where the information came from and what it represents.

    I'm not sure that we are becoming that kind of people....but rather that we already are. Look at the politicians we have in office, the decisions they make, and the laws they pass with little resistance or interest from the average American.

    My dad was reading what he thought was a funny email to me, something about left-wingers wanting the guantanamo bay priosners charged with something or released, and a right-winger saying how bad those people were and would the liberals like to baby sit a gun-toting terrorist.

    He stopped laughing when I asked how many cases he'd read about in the paper of those prisoners being charged and proven to be terrorists...when he realized he hadn't. He hadn't ever realized that the government that locked those people up is based around a constituiton that says *everyone* has rights to things like a fair trial.

    And he's not the only one who has no idea what the fuck is happening in the world outside his pretty little town. And he's not the only one who probably doesn't really care that much.

    --
    By and large, language is a tool for concealing the truth. -- George Carlin
  19. Re:Librarians by bawb · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Frankly, I think librarians are not putting any filter in place, and only presenting ALL of the information, not what a select group considers good or bad.

    Having been married to a librarian and consequently having known a great many librarians, I can attest that this statement is almost entirely true. There are instances where librarians are allowed to put filters in place, but largely in only two ways: their "top picks" display(s) devoted to personal favorites - if the library even sports such a section or display, and also - as guessed at in an earlier post in this thread - in the promotion of favorite authors and genres/subjects via [usually] temporary and rotating displays/themes. Beyond that, the vast majority of librarians I've encountered are extremely fanatical (yes - fanatical) about unbiased presentation of all available information to users. If you doubt this, I invite you to walk into a library and ask the librarians themselves and the people who frequently use their services.

    This equal dissemination of information is what librarians live for. Ask them just how far they, the library, and library system are willing to go to find you the book/subject you want - regardless of how obscure or unpopular the author, book, or subject matter.