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Flash Developers Fear Spectre of Spyware
SomeGuyNamedMike writes "I realize the thought of using Flash and Actionscript is considered beneath many Slashdotters, but here's this piece, anyway: Macromedia is receiving (and answering) a a lot of flack from several blogs over its decision to package Yahoo! Toolbar with its Flash player. Will your company develop Flash content knowing Macromedia is using its runtime as its own marketing piece?"
In case it's needed.
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http://www.turdhead.com.nyud.net:8090/index.php?p
http://www.hyperology.com.nyud.net:8090/?p=90
In case of Slashdotting, break mirror.
See here.
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
I looked at flash and was happy to see that a flash *.swf file saved and run localy, can't do anything more then when its on the web... unless it's saved to a folder with a 'command' subfolder and batch/scripts in it for each command. Much better then an java applet saved and run locally, which can do anything.
Thanks for putting on the feedbag. Thanks for going all out. Thanks for showing me your Swiss Army knife.
It is more than time for an open source Flash player...
Anyone know of any?
GPLFlash is a project to develop just such a player.
lasindi
I have discovered a truly remarkable proof of this theorem that this sig is too small to contain.
It seems Flash is going in three directions:
- Flex -- Enterprise Flash based on XML
- Central -- A way for them to use Flash to develop consumer apps
- Classic Flash
Classic Flash is completely hamstrung to prevent it from doing things like writing to your HD, communicating outside the basic arena of your own web site, etc. They are really paranoid about it becoming used for *other people's* spyware/malware.
Now, as far as Flash being spyware itself, they will go as far as the market lets them. If they, like any company, can make money through software add-ons like Yahoo!! toolbar, they will. But it seems unlikely that they will damage their reputation by overstepping, especially when the big money is potentially in Flex, etc.
But there is: http://www.swift-tools.net/Flash/
So how do I know that they are not going to install
anything else on the system. It does not matter much we banned macromedia's web site at the company as soon as we noticed it started installing yahoo toolbar. 100% loss of all trust, they just got placed in the same ranks as Real and Kazzaa
Got Code?
I just installed it. It asked me if I wanted the toolbar. I said no. End of story.
Paranoia.
vk.
There is an alternative. It's called Scalable Vector Graphics(SVG). It's a W3C recommendation, and adobe already has a free viewer on every important platform.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
http://download.macromedia.com/pub/flash/flash_fil e_format_specification.pdf
Check out Processing http://processing.org and Laszlo http://openlaszlo.org for some 'early' options. Processing is still scripting/programming based and outputs Java applets but is a decent start to a Flash alternative using Java. Laszlo is an XML + Javascript language for creating web applications that currently outputs to swf. There has been talk about publishing to Java and DotNet. Laszlo also has an IDE plug-in for Eclipse. While neither Processing or Laszlo are nowhere near as easy to use for designers as Flash is - they are a start. Problem is programmers are required to make the ide tools for non-programmers to use.
Actually, Flash content can be made *more* accessible than HTML content when authored properly.
i ty /features/flash/faq.htmlo m/macromedia/accessibility /
No, really.
http://www.macromedia.com/macromedia/accessibil
http://www.macromedia.c
Flash apps can be made section 508 compliant. You just need good developers and a bigger pot-o-gold.
Strong Mad - 2008: "I PRESIDENT!"
By your own definition, Yahoo Toolbar is spyware. See the Yahoo Toolbar's Privacy Page: http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us/toolbar/detail s.html
Some choice quotes:
etc.Now if you knowingly download and install the Toolbar yourself, you clearly are ok with this (you did read the privacy notice right?). But for someone to have this installed on their computer without their consent is definitely just plain wrong.
Well, show me an *implementation* of the standard that does the things I suggest and I wouldn't dislike it. However, since this is proprietary, the implementation is tied to the standard - they are the same thing. So I feel free to dislike both.
Slashdot - Mutual Assured Discussion
Yeah I like this.
I use the inkscape editor for it. Its fun having a wallpaper size image at 1k (For a simple image.)
Recently Macromedia actually experimented with the player, to see what effect increasing the size of the plugin would have on downloads. They found that once it got past a certain size (which wasn't revealed), downloads dropped off dramatically.
So I'm really surprised that they're bundling other software in the download now. I've no doubt that the total size is still below that threshold they found. But there's always a constant battle at MM to add features to Flash whilst keeping the player small. This ain't gonna make that easier and any bundling that alienates the user base is pretty self defeating IMHO.
One of these days I'm moving to Theory - everything works there
well, this isn't full blown yet, but it's a good start.
Not only are the blind not seeing your flash site, (well, hearing via screen reader, and yes, there are some workarounds) but search engine bots are skipping it too. Text in a webpage automatically gets included, Flash content and everything it links to is a black hole, the spidering stops. This means your site is irrelevent in search engine results, and you don't contribute to the web in a meaningful way. Add a 10% chance your viewer needs the plugin and will never return, a higher development cost, and a "broken" back button (last html page, not last flash screen) and I rarely recommend the use of Flash, and never for textual information sites.
Rule of the open mind
People who are resistant to change cannot resist change for the worst.
flack? what the heck is a flack?
The right word is flak, ab abbreviation of the German word "Flug Abwehr Kanone". Translated: Anti Aircraft Gun.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flak
That still doesn't explain why it is so leet to say "received a lot of flak by" instead of just saying "was met with resistance from" or "was opposed by"...
--- Eat my sig.
Flash is a much higher level language than java. Yes, they both (can) run in a browser, but you might as well compare Visual Basic and assembly. Flash, being higher level, is more suited to rapid application development for a fairly limited set of solutions.
While java allows you much more power and flexibility, when it comes to browser based apps there are few if any things java can do that flash can't. Java performs poorly when it comes to GUI-based applications, and requires far more code to get the same result. When it comes down to it, there are only two things Java really does well, portability and reliability, and as a result, it's a great server programming language.
Good flash sites always give reasonable defaults for killing the flash unless it's critical (see link #2) - the others below all have HTML equivalents for those who don't want, or don't need Flash.? bhcp=1
http://www.fordvehicles.com/trucks/f150/index.asp
Logoyes.com - 'Click here to get started'
http://www.fordvehicles.com/cars/mustang/launch/
http://www.kbhome.com/
OK:
http://www.kartoo.com/
Kartoo is a flash based search engine. It dsiplays the search results graphicaly.
Best feature is, that it connects search results with similar results. So you can drill down more and more.
Google is great if you are pretty sure what you are looking for. (ORACLE Error 1200501, now what?)
But if you have a problem and you don't know yet how this problem is described on the internet, you should definetly try kartoo.
I know that google does not use "keywords" but searching google with the wrong search terms will lead you nowhere. I know a lot of people who never really find what they are looking for, because they use some absurd search queries.
It's great for getting a few "offtrack" ideas.
we need an "-1 Plain wrong" moderation option!
Is that license binding in the state of California? I mean, if someone sends me a deep link to the download, an action which does not contradict the license, I'm allowed to download their documentation from their website without grumbling, as if it were any other form of publically accessable information. I know that California has ruled licenses which don't appear with a product aren't binding... Wired can't just decide that the magazine they sent can't be opened until June the 13th because of something they posted to a backwater area of their website.
Now it is my misunderstanding of IP law that a file format itself is not covered under copyright law, as the formatting inherently lacks expressive content, nor is it a trademark issue. It could be patented, but I fail to see any references to patents in the license. Plus if the file format is patented, you violate the patent whether you are aware of file format specification or not.
The only rights they have holding over your head is the right to copy the documentation, a necessary right for a download but made somewhat moot if a direct link is freely available.
Hell I can google "Flash File Format", and the first thing that pops up is a direct link to the file. In such a circumstance, not only have I not seen their license, I would have to actively search their website to find one, a license which is not referenced in the documentation itself.
The only license thing in their manual is pretty boilerplate. "This manual may not be copied, photocopied, reproduced,
translated, or converted to any electronic or machine-readable form in whole or in part without prior written approval of
Macromedia, Inc." Which is basically a simplification of their rights under copyright law. But you have a copy, freely available for download from their website, obviously with Macromedia's blessing.
What legally, prevents someone form using the information contained in the file to make a working SWF compiler?
The ______ Agenda
The Adobe version doesn't work in Mozilla 1.0+ and Firefox. It'll crash if you try and use it. The Mozilla developers blame Adobe. Adobe blames Mozilla. So nothing's been done on that. (Also, if you're using Mozilla/Firefox and turned HTTP pipelining on, it appears that Adobe's site really screws up. You'll need to set network.http.pipelining to false.)
There's an SVGViewer 6.0 beta that supposedly works with Mozilla.
SVG seems to have kind of died out, which is too bad, because it's a fairly nice technology. Unfortunately, the latest version on the Adobe site is 3.02 which was released November 2004, and the beta dates back to July 2003. 3.02 is a security update to the 3.0 SVGViewer which was released way back in November, 2001!
It's really annoying because four years ago in 2001, we decided to use SVG on a website because it looked to be a nice cross-platform solution that worked in all major browsers. Since then, it's effectively become IE-only, as the Adobe plugin has stopped working with Mozilla, and is underfeatures (specifically, doesn't support scripting) on most other platforms.
Hopefully it'll still come back, but right now, it really feels like SVG is dead in the water. And I'm speaking as a web developer who's used it for the past four years or so. It's just - not there yet.
You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
This was checked. A number of users have already reported that:
A) there was no choice provided to them - so it's not the same situation everywhere.
B) even if it's strictly to the browser (and not a part of the player), it is an add-on that will show up in some browsers where the toolbars have been declared turned off. Yet another factor to be concerned about.
C) as a toolbar add-on, it presents a danger as Yahoo updates that toolbar, or sells space/functionality on that toolbar to others. As I'm an IT manager, the last thing I can afford is Yahoo making updates that will further degrade system performance, or cause an unwanted reaction from a 3rd-party supplied toolbar or accessory to that toolbar.
"Love is like pi - natural, irrational, and very important." (Lisa Hoffman)
I am a slashdot reader who uses both, and let me tell you something; from my experience, it's not that it's beneath you, it's beyond you. 90% of the slashdot readers couldn't build an interesting interface if you lives depended on it, and I'm willing to put money on that. I know lots of other slashdot readers in my region, and guess what? They know this too. I could code in something other than actionscript, but I choose not to. I like design, I like graphics, and I'd appreciate not getting chastised for this choice, just as you (the rest of the slashdot world who believes Flash is "beneath" you) wouldn't appreciate unfounded criticism of your choice of profession. You, just as I, realize your place and your importance, and without your efforts and work, there would be a lot of people scrambling to get shit done. I make things easy, VERY easy for idiots; the rest of you make it work. We know the world we live in, and we know that without the effort we put into quality work and quality code, this world could be brought to it's knees, and you know as well as the next /.er that you've thought those same words. I would appreciate seeing a little less of this sort of sentiment from the readership here, and just a bit more appreciation for the world beyond C98 code, or whatever the hell you chose to be your weapon of choice.
Mod me down, do what you will, but I had to rant.
Hades, PoD: Official Advocate
Oh, and the swf format is open. There are 3rd party compilers available for both C# and Java.
You can let Macromedia know you don't want the Yahoo! Toolbar bundled with the Flash Player:w ishform/m ain.cgi
http://www.macromedia.com/support/email/
Regards.
Fourth, the site uses blind links. I don't know what will happen until I click.
Sixth, some advertisers abuse flash. I removed flash when mousing over a flash banner ad (to reach the URL bar) poped up a new window. No click needed. The same advertiser did the same thing on the right side of the page so I would get new windows if I tried to use the scroll bar. Flash completely lacks end user controls. It has no stop button unless the content provider is nice enough to include one. There is enough abuse of this to keep flash off my machine entirely.
The truth shall set you free!