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Open Source Tax Products?
sub7 asks: "That time of the year is upon as again: Tax Season. Those of us living in the U.S. are busy fumbling with various forms with awkward names and meaningless garble on them. Being a lazy BOFH, I went to H & R Block to see how much it would cost for them to prepare and file my taxes. They estimated -at least- $175, if not more! I knew it was cheaper to buy some software to handle my taxes. So I headed down to my local office supply conglomerate and picked up Turbo Tax 2004 Premier for $69.99. Being an OSS user for nearly 6 years I have never even considered an OSS tax solution product (probably because I ph34r t4x s34s0n!). So I turn to Slashdot to ask: Are there any projects equivalent to Turbo Tax or the other tax products out there for the OSS community?"
Why did you buy the software? You can fill the entire thing out online and save half the cash.
:)
The site actually works flawlessly in Firefox too
The price is always right if someone else is paying.
Open Tax Solver
you can fill the entire thing out online and save all the cash!
You're not really buying programming there, you're buying a lawyer's time through proxy. All the lawyers I know bill out in six minute increments and earn every freakin' penny they make (and it's a lot of them), so I don't think you're going to be getting this kind of stuff for free. You could make the program free, but you'd still have to buy the advice.
That said, TurboTax for the Web is cheaper, works for everyone who only lived in one state this tax season, and will run in Firefox on Linux and Mac, so at least you don't have to use Windows if it's not your cup of tea.
adam b.
Since I started having an accountant prepare my taxes three years ago there has not been a year where he did not save me far for than the small amount of money he charges to to my taxes. If you have kind of investments or run a small business then the reduction in liability from having a professional do your taxes is worth it.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
I use this (IRS Form 1040, pdf format), this (IRS Form 1040 instructions, pdf format), and XCalc. Seems to work fine for me.
I toggled a toggle and buttoned a button, but when I got done, I was done doin' nothin'.
http://www.taxfreedom.com/v /app/freeFile/jsp/index.jsp?
or
http://www.irs.go
for a complete list of freefile services
gnuTaxes is looking hopeful, if you're still living in 1999. From their "future release section":
1.0.0 - release gnuTax application with complete tax system definitions by end of 2000..
Seriously, these applications are not simple to write, and they change quite a bit, every year. Further, there's probably a certain amount of liability involved. You're better off sticking with one of the big commercial applications, or a web filing service. Hopefully they'll eventually write one in Java...
Actually not: there's a online filing fee. What you could do is fill out the paper form (or electronic using the dreaded Acrobat reader and print it out) and mail it in, saving all of the cash.
What do you call this?
Agreed. Just go to www.irs.gov and download the PDFs. You can get the forms and the instructions. The forms are fill-in so you can just type in your numbers. When you are done print and sign. It took me longer then the parent poster, it actually took me about a day to do Federal and State. When I was done I printed, my wife and i signed and I mailed them in. Why pay to e-file when I can mail them for less then a $1 each!?!? That's what really gets me about taxes...it costs the Govnmt quite a bit less if you e-file but they charge you to do so! i'll mail them and make them spend more the process my taxes until they make e-file free.
Well, if there was ever a need for support and updates... which last I heard was the OSS business model. However, since you only need it once a year, it'd be too easy to get it from someone else. Maybe a duel license model, where you have a "basic" OSS app, and some extended for-pay features to catch you once the taxes get too complex.
However, I think it is the double tranlation that is the killer. First someone needs to translate the tax code from legalese to english, then from english to code. And I'm sure it'd have to come with a big fat label saying we're not responsible if the IRS come knocking. I'm sure TurboTax isn't either, but I'm not sure I'd like to be head scapegoat of such a project...
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Apparently the IRS isn't allowed to do this because it would compete with private tax software providers. Go figure.
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
they certify the MATH is correct.v ersion/ind ex.php/t138.html
http://support.turbotax.com/forums/lofi
Accuracy of TurboTax Calculations. Intuit diligently works to ensure the accuracy of the calculations on every form prepared using TurboTax tax preparation software. If you are a registered user that has updated your Software with the most recent update available prior to filing your return and you pay an IRS or state penalty and/or interest solely because of a calculation error on a form prepared using the Software, and not as a result of, among other things, your failure to enter all required information accurately, willful or fraudulent omission or inclusion of information on your tax return, misclassification of information on the tax return, or failure to file an amended return to avoid or reduce an applicable penalty/interest after Intuit announced updates or corrections to the Software in time for you to file an amended return, then Intuit will pay you in the amount of the IRS or state penalty and/or interest paid by you to the IRS or state. (A "registered user" is a user who either registers his/her purchase with Intuit, or has purchased a license to use the Software directly from Intuit).
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
They won't do this because the IRS has already agreed to not compete with private industry.
--You will rephrase your request for me to go to hell. Goto statements are not acceptable programming constructs
The IRS is specifically banned from doing so, thanks to the lobbying effort of the tax preparation industry. It's just like the "free" electronic filing the IRS offers. The only way to use it is to buy a nonfree tax software product or go to a professional that has a product that can e-file.
In this environment, I think we're pretty lucky that the telefile option doesn't require us to call 1-900-HRB-FILE or something.
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
Yields how I've been doing my taxes for the past three years:
http://hrblock.com/goto/free
If you don't mind filling out your state paperwork yourself, it doesn't cost you a dime.
mstyne: real name, no gimmicks
The Dutch IRS has been giving away tax software for almost a decade now. It's not Open Source, but starting next year, it will be platform independent (Java based). Although it won't be GPL, at least we'll be able to file our taxes again :)
Ummm, no.
http://www.irs.gov/app/freeFile/jsp/index.jsp?
And if you're too rich to qualify for any of those, then you're too rich to bitch.
go read the heated debates they had releasing it, but in the end OSS won
http://www.turbocash.co.za/
http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/turbocash/
so go contribute (all languages and many countries supported), its the only free open source dedicated accounting package that you can actually do buisness on
Also, I believe, tax software provider takes on some legal responsibility, significantly more than other software. It is hard to give software out to anyone and still be help responsible.
...remember good 'ol times when IP used to mean Internet Protocol....
In Brazil the government allways developed the program used to it. They even developed a Java version, so you could use it on linux.
They banned paper forms last year, and those who send all the data by internet have some advantages. I don't know all the functions Turbo Tax has, a government developed program can be better.
Where you can use e-tax currently unavailable cause the tax year is July to June. The software is very good and the need for tax accountants is dwindling.
Umm.. TurboTax is one of the products you can use to e-file your federal taxes for free. Did you even look at the irs site? These are full function tax tools, not just fill in the blank forms. Names like TurboTax, H&R Block, and TaxCut. Some have restrictions on income level, but pleny of good ones don't.
This is exactly what Inland Revenue has done in the UK. They have their own web application that you can fill in online, in addition to allowing you to upload your returns from the commercial software packages. I guess if your tax situation is remotely complex, the commercial packages will still make life much easier, but for simple PAYE, you don't need much more than the online forms.
Eh?
Go to the IRS website. They've got a bunch of "partners" that will e-file your taxes for free. My federal return last year was free through a link to H&R Block's website from the IRS website. I still had to pay for my state return, though. But the return check more than made up for it.
tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
For Mac users, MacInTouch has info about these services as well as info about US and Canadian tax software for the Mac.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
This is totally fucked up, but completely true.
Actually you're both wrong. The taxpreparer can take the clients word that they have a certain deduction, there is not a requirement that you show the documentation to the preparer. But you better have it if the IRS comes knocking. On the other hand if the preparer makes up deductions they are guilty of aiding and abetting criminal tax evasion. The rub comes in when the client has to pay the tax and penalties. The taxpayer can get out of any criminal problem if they can show that they in GOOD FAITH relied on what they believed to be competent professional advice. In other words you can't let your taxpreparer take bogus deductions if it is done with a nod and a wink. That's what the real story is.
Replacing the income tax with a sales tax would makes people less willing/able to buy things, which would mean less income for the corporations that sell those things. Given the amount of influence corporations have on the US government, the chances of such a reform passing seem slim.
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
You should consider using the IRS Withholding Calculator. It will help eliminate that "loan" to the IRS.
There are already FREE (BEER) solutions to e-filing your taxes for nearly everyone in nearly every state. No OSS person is going to take on the liability or complexity of the US tax code for "fun", especially when the FREE (BEER) solutions work so well and there are plenty of better projects to which you can devote your limited time.
The federal government has forms online and they also have a "Free File" for eligible taxpayers which is nearly everybody. Check out www.irs.gov for the site and a link to a variety of supported vendors who will e-file you for free using web-based forms.
I like www.taxact.com -- they are among the federal "Free File" vendors so you can use them for free and have the Fed gov't pay for it - just make sure you start at the www.irs.gov website or you'll have to pay for it. You can file the state with TaxAct for about $10 more but realize that MOST states (like IL where I live) have online FREE tax filing as well at their state websites.
However, if you're like me and want to do it at home instead of on the web for free, you can purchase TaxAct's fed and state for use at home for $20. Their software is very easy to use and asks you simple questionaire to make sure you get all your deductions. Additionally, TaxAct isn't as bloated and is not filled with crapware (like nasty DRM that writes to your root sector on your HD) like the other major vendors have done in the past. I don't work for or have any relation to taxact, but I do like them compared to other products and I would recommend them for people who want the actual program at home versus the FREE (BEER) solutions above.
The free online products allow you to file your taxes, guarantee accuracy of computations (not accuracy of what you enter OF COURSE!), print out your taxes for a personal copy, and verify their online filing. If you need a program, you can spend $20 for a fully guaranteed tax suite and save over the $175 or $69.99 charges mentioned in the post.
This year, I hired an accountant (and EA: someone why has worked within the IRS previously in a return-related way for five years), paid $700, and definately got my money's worth: he found about $600 in extra refunds that even I, in my pennypinching, hacker-scheeming, diligence missed. (Of course, I expected this level of work, even though the extra refund was a pleasant surprise).
A good tax accountant will provide a 30 to 60 minute consultation session for free that will give you an idea if it is worthwhile to retain their services.
In my case, I'd already researched a bunch of strategies that I thought would work, but they involved the use of tax treaties. I was over my head in tax legaleese and nomenclature, and I needed someone to refute or verify what I though, and get the i's dotted and t's crossed to make sure I filed correctly.
You could've hired me.
It's actually much better than that... in order to be a company that CAN charge for efile you have to give it away to a bunch of people.
Essentially the IRS said that industry had to come up with a way to make it largely free or else they WERE going to come out with a universal solution. And industry said ok.
It's a nearly perfect example of this kind of cooperation between government and the free market.
Looking for freelance Actionscript (Flash/Flex) or ColdFusion work and/or freelance developers. Email me, put Slashdot
The same in some cantons of Switzerland. The software is free, runs on Windows, Mac and Linux and is written by the gouvernement, covers everything needed. Although you don't send a file at the end, you print out a sheet with a long barcode on it which contains all the necessary data.
The gouvernement provides this software for free, because it saves them a lot of work and money by avoiding to go through hand-written and often wrong filled paper forms.
The CPA is always, ALWAYS the better approach. Not only do they get you more money back (if you choose), but they know exactly how to work the deductions, so you pay the least amount necessary to meet your tax obligations. They also look longer-term, vs. how H&R block looks to you as a McDonalds customer: "Next!"
Also, the CPA is responsible for defending you, or them, in court, if there is ever a discrepancy with your taxes. H&R block doesn't, because they're not legally accountants.
Big difference, and if you make close-to or over 6-figures, have children, own a home, or many other things (I was able to deduct a significant portion of my home and expenses due to my Free Software work, for example; H&R block wouldn't even know to ask), H&R block can do a LOT more damage than a properly-qualified CPA.
Moving to a consuption tax from income tax is not so easy.
Many of us are getting older. We have already paid income tax on our savings and investments. For the people at retirement age, a move to a consuption tax means that they pay the full tax TWICE (which would be Very unfair.)
A better solution is to just move to a fair flat tax, or simplified graduated tax, with Very few deductions. The current tax code is amazingly complicated. The tax code should be able to be summed up in 40 pages instead of 400 volumes.
To respond to the main OP, I wouldn't use H&R Block ever. The preparers are not accountants. In fact, I know one that is a warehouse worker at Walmart. My taxes are complicated - owning a small business, dealing with AMT from stock options, buying and selling real-estate, trust funds, etc. I use a CPA. We go over all the issues in detail to find all the deductions, how to deal with investments in a way that is best from a tax prespective, etc. 4They charge me $250. Why would you pay $175 for someone who is not even an accountant, much less a CPA? I know way too many people that use H&R that ended up with major tax problems due to errors. Stay far far away.
Furthermore, unless your taxes are pretty simple, I wouldn't consider doing them myself. If you just have a normal job, single, rent an apartment, don't invest, then sure! Use Turbotax or whatever. Otherwise you are better off with professional advice and service from a qualified CPA.
There is a free Canadian tax filing software called Taxman. Can't vouch for it as I've never tried it.
http://pacificcoast.net/~gthompson/
If you have a business in Canada you may write off tax preparation fees and expenses. I don't know if non business owners can do the same.