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MiniMo(zilla) Running on Windows Mobile
webgrappa writes "If you (yes, yes, you that like OpenSource but use Win all the time) own a Windows Mobile Device, in a near future you'll trash Pocket IE and NetFront. MozillaZine has photos of MiniMo running on Windows Mobile Device."
http://rebron.org/blogarchives/2005/03/minimozilla _com.html
That said I am often frustrated by PocketIE. While it works (and rather well) the fact that you can't have more than one window open (no tabs) SERIOUSLY hampers me. I can't tell you how many times I'd like to open a link in a second window/tab to look at in a minute or load while I continue reading, or open a collection of 2/3 links to look at. But instead I have to choose one or the other and read that now. Then I have to remember how to get back to where I was to find the other links, and remember which links those were. I haven't browsed using a single window on any platform in at least 5 years, probably more. So this feels like a HUGE limitation to me and really cramps my browsing style.
Having not only a second option from Pockete IE, but one that might allow me tabs/windows would be fantastic. I will download it the second it's released.
Horray for MiniMo!
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
I just noticed that Minimo for WinCE can already be downloaded at http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=6 097.
Clies are slow. You won't get very fast results.
Try a recent Palm, but if you really want something powerful, Pocket PC is the only way to go.
Here's an analogy: Palm OS 4 and below are like the original Mac OS or even DOS on the PC (simple, not very powerful, no multitasking), Palm OS 5 is like System 7 on Mac or Windows 3.1 (a bit more powerful, limited multitasking, a bit less simple), and Windows Mobile is like Windows NT/2000/XP (stable, powerful, and multitasking).
PalmOS didn't even get devices that used *true* filesystems until very recently (instead of the antiquated and outgrown database format, which didn't really support advanced applications).
Well, there's NetFront which supports tabs and is a lot better than Pocket IE. Didn't you research at all?
On my Zaurus SL-C860, I can run the real Firefox (or Mozilla) with pdaXrom, not to mention a whole load of other apps, including abiword, gnumeric, and other apps that, while not exactly full-blown on the PC side, completely blow away anything on the PDA side.
With the latest betas, things are working with very minimal headache. If you're looking for PDA apps, this is a dream come true; if you're looking for a unix workstation in your pocket, this is also a dream come true. Or if you want gvim and gcc in your pocket. Or if you want snes9x in your pocket. Etc. You get the picture.
It's really awesome to have a Linux workstation in your pocket that can dial via bluetooth through your cellphone anywhere you can get reception. Take photos with your camera, edit them right there with the latest GIMP, upload them to your server.
It may seem obscenely expensive for a PDA, but it's also obscenely functional. You can't find a laptop this size, and it does just about everything you'd want a laptop to, except play the latest 3D games.
Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
Difference is, you can browse the web now with Opera on millions of mobile devices powered by Symbian and Linux. There is even a test version of Opera for Windows Mobile Smartphone Edition.
That Minimo Google-on-phone screenshot didn't look exactly inviting. Getting small-screen rendering right is not the trivial effort some people think it is. Opera has spend a lot of time and resources on getting it right.
If you don't like having choices made for you, you should start making your own. - Neal Stephenson
http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=6 097
No, and from responses to previous times this question has been asked (it gets asked at least once every time someone mentions Minimo...), porting to Palm OS 5.x or below would be very hard. There was speculation that Palm OS 6 would make it a bit easier (but it'd still require someone to invest a bunch of time...)
Dan East
Better known as 318230.
Who uses the internet on there Pocket PC? It takes way to long just to type in a web address!
You don't have to type the URL every time you go to a site, you know? That's what favorites/bookmarks and links are for. I mostly use the PocketPC to check my favorite sites and not for general browsing. And for this type of usage it's great.
"Mínimo" is Spanish for minimal.
The revolution will not be televised.
Troll.
The older Palm OS devices did not have "files". Instead, they had "databases" and "programs". There were no directories - everything was stored in the same level. Databases had types and attributes, like other filesystems, but they were transparent to the user -- they would appear as files in programs. They had a file type field stored with them; it wasn't an extension in the filename, instead it was actually stored as an attribute (like Mac OS.) There was no separation between storage memory and RAM - programs ran right from where they were stored. (Windows Mobile divides storage and program memory into two separate areas. Palm OS 5 may do this, but I'm not sure.)
You could not just store files on a Palm or access it from a PC like a filesystem; nor could programmers access it like a filesystem. If I wanted to put some JPEGs on a Palm, I'd either need special software to convert it, or a brand new Palm that does use a filesystem, or a Palm with a SD/MMC card. Windows Mobile has a hierarchial file system... much cleaner and easier to work with. You can just copy/add/remove files as you normally would.
WinFS isn't a filesystem in the traditional sense. It still uses NTFS as its underlying filesystem, but uses SQL (and MS SQL Server 2005)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WinFS
Pictures
No way. Nearly impossible. Not only would it require an extremely long time to do this, such an application would be both enormously complex and so different than the original that'd it be much easier to write a brand new browser. Symbian platform would be a bit easier, as would Palm OS, but as you see here, Windows Mobile handheld platforms aren't too much trouble, and Linux is hardly any work at all. Java MIDP has many constraints, such as the lack of a true filesystem and memory/filesize constraints, that would make this very difficult. The one MIDP Java web browser (ReqWireless, I think) I've seen uses a special proxy to pre-render pages into an easy-to-digest format. An older version of Handspring Blazer did the same thing.
both require gnome and mozilla and are worthless on, say, a system running fluxbox with no other browser. the only dependency I'd be willing to put up with is -- maybe -- gtk. even that is pushing it.
New applications. Multimedia. More demanding games. Because the competition is both more advanced *and* has taken over market share.
The old database-style techniques were far more efficient. When PalmOne moved to a filesystem-based architecture with the Treo 650, users found that N megs of RAM in the new device was equivalent to N/2 megs of RAM in the old device.
It was never "equivalent". First, PalmOne should have included more RAM in the Treo 650. Second, a sacrifice in efficency is necesarry. However, the way in which they mapped old databases to files was not very efficent. The old system was hindering the platform greatly.
PalmOS has always been more efficient and far better than Windows Mobile for any embedded device.
PalmOS was very kludgy, not 32-bit, etc. If by "embedded device" you mean "plain-jane simple organizer", I agree completely.
PalmOS devices have historically been more usable despite 1/10 the processing power of a WinCE device
WinCE has had the same basic architecture from the beginning. While it didn't work out as well to begin with (the OS wasn't very mature and hardware wasn't too great,) it has evolved and is now a very decent platform. PalmOS devices have always been usable, and rather simple to use, but you can't use it for much.
As for processing power - clearly they needed more. The old Dragonball CPUs took a few seconds to decode JPEGs and had no hope at playing mp3s.
thanks to the fact that PalmOS was designed from the ground up for mobile devices
It was designed for simple organizers.
while WinCE and its bastard brethren are a horrendous hack.
That's an unsubstantiated anti-Microsoft troll.
PalmOS still does not have anything close to the mutlimedia support present on Windows Mobile (yes, people *do* like to put music on their PDAs and watch movies too), nor does it have the advanced gaming or emulation support (yes, people like to play games too.) For those that like to multitask... they can. I can run IRC, AIM, browse the web, and play music (streaming radio if I want it to be), all at the same time. And you can do so much from the device itself - you don't need to have a computer with the right software to be able to install software, mess around, etc.
Unfortunately, PalmOS 5.x is a step backwards. POS 5.x runs on significantly faster hardware than OS4, with practically no benefits in 95% of situations. It's still a hell of a lot better than any mobile version of Windows.
Step backwards? Do you think they switched to ARM because it was a step backwards? No. They needed to move forward. Windows Mobile does so much more, and people see that. PalmOne is really struggling to catch up now. People enjoy using their PDAs to go online and play mp3s. "95% of situations" of what Palm OS did originally won't benefit from a faster CPU, but what people want to do now requires a faster CPU.
In all truth, that was the first thing I went to do as soon as I saw how crippled Pocket IE was on my Dell Axim, but upon reviewing Opera's download page I realized that they do not have a solution for my platform. You can see in the right where it clearly states that the Windows Mobile version of Opera does not run on Pocket PC devices. Total bummer.
Now, with Minimo, I have another choice in browsers. Hopefully this will support the features that I want, not the least of which is the ability to have more than one window open.
If you really need a lightweight web browser for an older machine, I would recommend
Dillo - a nice lightweight browser, but no CSS or Javascript. Requiress GTK something.
Links 2 - Runs in X, frame buffer, SVGA. Some CSS and Javascript support.
Both are very lightweight and I've used both on ancient machines that needed "something." I'll usually include Firefox as a backup for sites that really need it.Mozilla has been available for the PS2 for ages. Just get the Linux kit. I think it was the third thing I installed. (Distributed.Net client, Moria, Mozilla...)
I've got NetFront 3 on my h6315, and it works fairly well. It definitely does a better (albeit still quite imperfect) job at rendering pages for easy hand-readability than Pocket IE. As anyone with a Pocket PC knows, the worst thing in the world is a page that renders in such a way that requires you to scroll left and right and back again over and over to read a column of text. It doesn't look like MiniMo does anything to address that (yet, anyway).
/. on Pocket IE? /. seriously needs to get with the program and create alternate layouts for this stuff. Google's smart enough to detect that you're using a handheld and arrange itself accordingly, why shouldn't /.? Has anyone else noticed that GMail has a non-DHTML version now that works with old/non-standard browsers such as Pocket IE? Of course, I just use the POP mail, but it's nice anyway.
Anyone here had the misery of trying to read
Other features of Netfront are some Javascript capability, and tabs, fullscreen browsing, and scroll mode (where your stylus moves the page, which helps a lot with the ones that don't render well). MiniMo will need all of these features before I consider switching.