Microsoft Uncertain About WinFS for XP

Ant writes "As a follow-up to WinFS to be available in WinXP story from a few days ago, BetaNews reports that Microsoft (MS) stopped short of confirming reports that it plans to back-port its next-generation WinFS file system architecture to Windows XP. MS tells BetaNews it is only evaluating the move while also acknowledging WinFS is still years off. "We are currently evaluating making the WinFS storage subsystem available on this platform and will make the decision based on what is best for customers." a Microsoft spokesperson told BetaNews."

Comments

Why the push in the first place?

[EggyToast]

All of the information coming out seemed to show that WinFS was simply a metadata layer atop NTFS. It wouldn't add any actual data handling to the file system, it wouldn't speed up read/write, and it wouldn't make NTFS more accessible to other operating systems.

All it would do is make locating files easier, at least that's pretty much how they were shopping it around. You could do that without adding another layer to the HDD by simply having an element of the OS scan in the background efficiently.

Conversely, though, I wonder if the reason they're starting to back off of WinFS now is because including it would mean that all of those obscure file locations where companies like to hide setup files would be that much easier and faster for people to locate. I've lost count of the number of times I've needed to hunt through hidden folders to find some stupid file to edit or delete. And the search taking 30+ minutes didn't help.

Maybe instead of working on WinFS, they should focus on coming up with an alternative to the registry.

Best interests?

[ImaLamer]

From the posting, my emphasis:

"We are currently evaluating making the WinFS storage subsystem available on this platform and [We, at Microsoft] will make the decision based on what is best for customers." a Microsoft spokesperson told BetaNews.

Thank you...

...and please order those Microsoft WinVoting units, I don't want to do any thinking come the begining of November anymore.

Re:Best interests?

[ImaLamer]

In fact I do use FAT with XP. My second drive is partitioned into several FAT drives, one for "Temp", one for the pagefile, and one for the system catalog....

FAT needs to access the disk a quarter of the amount of times for each read/write operation. It only makes sense to take all of these "extra" I/O operations and off-load them onto another drive. After I learned about this little trick (which is centered around the original strategy of moving the swap off the main drive) I've been a Windows user again in fact. I've setup and forgot about two Win2K machines with this strategy because they _never_ crash. [Of course you've got to admit that people get click happy and say the PC is frozen when Windows enters "trashing" mode and they reboot that bad mo-fo..]

Can't customers make choices on their own? Make it available and if it sucks we won't use it, problem solved.

Re:clearly

[dsginter]

Its in consumer's best interests to force them to upgrade lest they be left behind and forgotten.

Normally this is standard MS mentality but I disagree in this case. Here's why:

Hard drive space is friggin' cheap. Look closely there. The 80GB unit is $55 while the 40GB unit is $48. Wow... For that kind of bang/buck, manufacturers might want to start bundling Linux with Windows in a dual-boot configuration. And coming soon, virtualization - you'll be able to run Linux and Windows simultaneously on the same damn PC.

What better method of migrating people from Windows?

WinFS, however, throws a monkey wrench in that. While linux NTFS is coming along nicely, Microsoft is fearing the loss of the proprietary-ness that has locked them in for so long.

Linux on the desktop is close (though ever so frustrating at this point). WinFS is Microsoft's last ditch at thwarting it for another couple years.

The turtle and the wabbit

[3seas]

While MS is all on about how much better they are or going to be, the fact of the matter is that you'll get there, where YOU want to go, sooner by going more direct and without incompatable file formats, DRM type of constraints, etc..

How often does a company use a cracked version of some sofware package that they actually purchased, so to avoid the problems of the additional protection complexity?

I see a security hole...

[yuriismaster]

Database FS's make things easier to search for... but that can be a bad thing too.

If someone found an exploit to run queries on that database, then you can surely find passwords, addresses, vital documents, etc. in a snap!

At least when you obfuscate your folders, you make it harder for both you and intruders to find your info.

WinFS vs Tiger Spotlight?

[Amiga Lover]

I've seen many comparisons between Tiger's Spotlight, and MS's WinFS in features... and heard from people I know that have Tiger betas running as full time desktops who say the spotlight problems & updates seem to be where the most work is going into Tiger at the moment.

Does anyone know just what the differences are in concepts here? Is Spotlight going to offer much the same functionality from the point of view of a user? Is it really even the 'killer app' it's supposed to be?

I'm curious as I've heard so much mentioned about it these last few years (10 now with Windows).

Re:2 Alternatives That Work Now

[2nd Post!]

You know, it's pretty hard to keep 'your' files organized on shared systems; say a lab or business share. Even harder when they aren't 'your' files; system files, program files, etc.

This makes a common network drive so much more accessible; imagine 20 users with 30 shared folders and 30 personal folders all on a network storage unit.

The OTHER point of view to yours:
I want the computer to do the stuff it's good at (organization and storage) and I want to do the stuff I'm good at (creation, manipulation, modification).

So if the computer can do a better job of keeping my files organized than I can, I say, let it.

Is Longhorn the new Copland?

[earthbound kid]

With all the delays for Longhorn, I wonder if Microsoft fans don't feel like Apple fans during the late 90's, eternally waiting for Copland. During the wait for Copland, Microsoft was basically ahead of Apple, since it already had a true preemptively multitasking OS and Apple fans had to put up with cooperative multitasking and frequent crashes. Now, while Apple is poised to ship OS 10.4 Tiger with Spotlight (aka all the functionality of WinFS) and CoreImage (aka all the functionality of Avalon) before July, Microsoft faces delay after delay. Of course, Microsoft OSes are frequently late (who can forget the many delays of Windows 95?), but though the release came fast and furious for 98, ME, 2000, and XP, Microsoft has been stagnating since then. Even a simple service pack has turned into a huge production for MS to produce and ship.

I think all of these signs point to MS's code base being too big and unwieldy. I don't think anyone doubts that IE is too bloated to fix. Just compare the time between the release of 5 and the release 6 to the time between the release of 6 and now. If Microsoft could implement full CSS selector support and non-broken PNG display, I'm sure they would have by now, but IE is just too tangled to fix quickly anymore.

So, if MS is wandering in a Copland-esque desert, what's to be done? As unbelievable as a suggestion as it may seem, maybe they should take the OS X route and just buy a competitor and cut their loses. Starting over from (not quite) scratch will give Windows a shot in the arm. WINE has already proven that backwards compatibility with Windows applications doesn't have to be dependent on using their existing OS code. They should just buy out Be (a good choice since they already have a metadata filesystem) or someone else with a Unix-like underpinning, and rewrite Windows the right way. It will take another 3 or 4 years, but at this rate, they're going to need that much time anyway. Spinning their wheels on Longhorn won't get MS anywhere. If MS wants to innovate (and that's a reasonable question), it's time to take a chance, kill Copland, and try something new.