Slashdot Mirror
Anatomy of a Successful Enterprise Linux Distro?
phenix asks: "With the new release of Novell Linux Desktop, and the upcoming release of Sun JDS3, I am curious to hear how these two suites, and their underlying enterprise infrastructures (JES and OES) compare. Specifically, I am interested in their ease of management/deployment in these areas: directory services, productivity (office) applications, centralized application serving, centralized document storage, groupware, and remote application installation. All of these, of course, without the use of Windows products like Exchange and Windows technologies like Active Directory. Is there a better alternative?"
The anatomy of the unicorn. They're both mythical creatures.
This is just a veiled "which distro is best" post (most of what poster asks is at application level, not distro level), this entire discussion will be a flamefest.
At risk of wandering offtopic, the parent post is a microcosm of why people don't try OSS. A user asks for help/opinion, and it gets thrown back at him/her. Almost as un-helpful as "RTFM".
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
1. Get rid of Berman and Braga
Ohhhh, were on about Linux in the enterprise.
The problem with Sun and Novell is that they are both approach the problem: how to be Microsoft. As such they are trying to be all things to all people (their own OS, own directory services, own productivity, etc.). I support the effort, but there are two many years and too much functionality of built up Microsfot competitive status to comprehensively replace in one package.
A more feasible / successful approach the "assimilation" that is being led by Xandros. Let the user keep his productivity suite (Crossover), keep his Active Directory (Xandros authenticates against it), keep their NTFS, etc. Above all, get the home and corporate user on the right OS (Debian in Xandros' case) and migrate the other functionality in a best of breed fashion in the future (when it is easier).
In some of the cases, Xandros did build out functionality that Linux normally lacks: e.g. remote application installation. In this case though, they also built Windows hooks so the same manager can control both Linux and Windows boxes: clever.
Hunger is the best sauce.
You're all just mad because i didn't mention Red Hat.
/... readers who have tested these yet; meanwhile, please comment on these companies past performance with their products (JES, SuSE Enterprise, Red Carpet).
Seriously though, the question really has nothing to do with the distribution, I'm concerned primarily with the infrastructure provided by Novell and Sun to support and implement the distribution.
I'd love to test these myself (and will), but nothing is more informative than real-world users who have done a real-world implementation; I'd be very surprised to hear that there are no
I'm not looking for Windows clones, or Windows compatibles, and am rather disturbed that both Novell and Sun seem to be touting their "Exchange connectors" as one of their key features.
Current users of OSS are constantly bemoaning the lack of wide adoption but also have their personal identity and self-esteem heavily reliant on the elitism associated with the communities surrounding OSS. The natural urge is to bar membership to this community to perpetuate the elitism, greatly harming new user adoption.
I always save my last mod point to mod up a good troll. You people are too serious.
I can think of one big reason not to do this: Oracle.
Some enterprise applications have very rigorous support and compatibility matrices. Unless your idea of running Unix servers is just playing around with apache, you will likely have some serious support considerations.
In this case, RH and Suse enterprise are the only options if you happen to be in the US or Europe.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
What an odd question. NDS has existed almost 10 years, providing centralized appliation serving via NDS integrated applications. Look at Pegasus Mail (I assume this is what you mean). Install the app on the server, and the programs INI files are stored in the user's home directories. Users can move from PC to PC without migrating anything that's PC-specific (such as the registry). Hell, if there's any reason to get MS Source code, it would be to get the source to Outlook and rip out the registry crap.
Zenworks takes care of the rest of the desktop 'distribution', like installing and upgrading pc-centric software.
I would guess you didn't know Novell's Border manager could be thought of as IPChains based on NDS login.
It sounds like you really don't know much of what is out there, and you need to read some whitepapers at Novell.com. Or goto some tradeshows. Get exposed.
"I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)
I think that Linux Distributors need to help get distrobutions configurations optimized.
/etc/passwd and /etc/shadow Just don't cut it anymmore.
In Linux, often, the needs of the Enterprise have to translate into the needs of the Home User. I know you likely think that the Home User doesn't need OpenLDAP, when in reality, with the amount of information they have to manage using computers, they absolutely need OpenLDAP, MySQL, Samba, and other things.
Alot of Linux "Bugs" are fixable out of the box configuration issues. I have a friend of 8 years who much to my emotional devistation, is moving from Linux to Windows XP. The major issue he had? There was always something wrong in how something was configured.
The permissions not being set right on the CD Burner, Gaim not being absle to direct connect from behind a NAT, even a well configured Shorerwall NAT.
Linux can be configure such that it does "Just Work(tm)." The issue is the distributors, even Mandrake do a hard time gauging what the real needs of the Enterprise and Home Users are.
This isn't a "Linux Software is inferiror" issue its a "Why did you set the CD Burner to 600 when it should be 660" issue. These configuration issues cause Linux to fail. Giving people the impression Linux Software "Doesn't work" Like my friend.
Linux Distributors Underestimate the needs of Home Users and Distributors of this day and age with half-hearted configurations and sometimes downn right "Wrong" information. They substitute Universal comprehensive Linux Applications like Linuxconf for Proprietary ones like thee Mandrake Control Center.
The Distributors need to start creating more dynamic and sophisticated DEFAULT CONFIGURATIONS to meet the growing dynamic needs of today's home and Enterprise Users.
This is my wish for a linux distro. I work in a Windows only company where linux is slowly creeping in (embedded, specialised application servers, a small beowulf). I have ZERO chance of getting admin rights on the network or influencing the IT dept. towards Linux. What I need is a distro which not only coexists with windows, but automatically sucks its settings, copies email settings, home drive and printers. Automatically install the correct autentication module so people can log on with their active directory password. Read the windows drive letters and mount them. Note I write this from a linux box. I am trying, but it could be easier.
10 ?"Hello World" life was simple then
Or maybe the poor guy is aware that sometimes issues crop up during a full deployment that don't show up in a test environment, and just wants to see what issues or concerns others have come across in their deployments.
:). But it could happen.
Or perhaps he just wants to supplement his testing with other opinions of the products which might bring to light issues that he hadn't thought of.
I'm a pretty pessimistic guy but it amazes even me the amount of negative feedback that is generated whenever someone asks a question.
Maybe he is just being lazy and not wanting to try it on his own but you don't know that. It's pretty rude to slam him on the basis of something you don't know anything about.
Not to mention the fact that by posting it in a public forum, he's bringing an important topic into public discussion which could produce a productive idea or two on the topic. Sure I know it's a slim chance, this is Slashdot after all
ender-
Nothing to see here
The other extremely important factor is the "Warm and fuzzy feeling(tm)" in your manager. It boils down to covering his ass. Having a really big name behind your distro really helps. Novell/Suse have a winning hand here. We all know that in the real world vendors won't cover jack-shit but it's all part of the big lie. Various bogus partner programs can also help here but not as much.
The more insecure your maneger is the more important these factors are.
But having your key applications certified on your distro of choice is essential unless you've got source for them and can roll them yourself.
TCAP-Abort
it only takes three commands to install Gentoo
/dev/hda && mkfs.xfs /dev/hda1 && mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/gentoo/ && chroot /mnt/gentoo/ && env-update && . /etc/profile && emerge sync && cd /usr/portage && scripts/bootsrap.sh && emerge system && emerge vim && vi /etc/fstab && emerge gentoo-dev-sources && cd /usr/src/linux && make menuconfig && make install modules_install && emerge gnome mozilla-firefox openoffice && emerge grub && cp /boot/grub/grub.conf.sample /boot/grub/grub.conf && vi /boot/grub/grub.conf && grub && init 6
cfdisk
that's the first one
Source Bash.org
Yet Socrates himself is particularly missed.
A lovely little thinker but a bugger when he's pissed.