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Texas Attorney General Sues Vonage over 911
bigtallmofo writes "Vonage VoIP customers and readers of many media reports should be aware that Vonage's support for 911 service is less than ideal. Now the Attorney General of the State of Texas is suing Vonage for failing to make clear the limitations of their 911 service. The issue was brought to the AG's attention after a 17-year old Houston girl was unable to reach police after dialing 911 when both of her parents were shot by an intruder."
The real number to which your 911 call is forwarded is some sort of state secret. The 911 call centers don't want to be called except for when 911 is dialed to avoid pranks, mistakes, and confusion. If you dial 911 from Vonage they forward your call to the publicly listed police number for your area. If they could figure out what the call center for your area would be, they would foward the call there. But my understanding is the list is not available to them.
The 911 problems with VOIP are that like cell phones, you can take a VOIP phone with you. It is not tied to a location. Unlike cell phones, you can't pinpoint the location as being near a tower. You are just "on the internet" which is not nearly as helpful. VOIP does not have embedded GPS either.
Here is a list of things that I think need to happen. Lets sue until the do (I don't care who):
I'm not sure how well the GPS thing would work indoors. You might have to have the box say "I can't get a GPS signal, I won't work until I have one. Go plug me in near a window until I can see a satelite, then you can put me in the basement."
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Sigh, almost every major local phone service provider is required to keep every hardline connected capable of dialing 911, even if normal service has been disconnected.
"Jeremy, you need to get to an internet cafe and cut and paste some appropriate sentiments about me from the world wide
I'm sorry, but if you're an aspiring telco player, integration into emergency services should be priority number one. If they can do it with cell towers, they can do it with VOIP and there's absolutely no excuse.
The simple fact is, we've all been trained to call 911 in the event of emergency..and sorry, but all phones should be able to reach it in one form or another. I don't care if you have to open a call center to forward the calls to the proper local authorities, you do it, and that's that.
This kind of feature should have been in place before vonage even went live and I hope that the state forces them to comply. Now.
This also effects the cordless phones to a lesser extent too. Should the power go out most cordless phones don't have battery backup on the base station so the phone still works.
Many people get rid of their normal phone when they buy a multi-handset cordless, even though there's (in the UK at least) a big sticker on the phone that tells you about requiring mains power for the thing to work and the risk.
I work for an ISP/Communications company in my area. I recently switched my number over to a beta voip test network we've been playing with. I seriously have no idea if 911 will work correctly. (Seeing as I'm geographically close to our switch, maybe it will).
So I'm a tad concerned about this.
On the other hand, I did have to dial 911 in the last year (or two?), *before* I had the VoIP service, while I had a traditional land line.
An electrical cable outside my house was about 60 years old and it decided it would short in the middle of the night. (Think this was last April or the year before). This was the main power to the house. I went out to investigate, and it was smoldering. I had no idea if the house was burning on the inside of the walls or not.
I run back inside and dial 911. Guess what? The girl didn't know my address. She fumbled for a few minutes and finally I gave it to her.
So if I know 911 had problems beforehand, why would I worry about my voip service? I've tried to make it completely clear to my family if something goes awry, we would need to use our cell phones...
FLR
911 should be turned on by default, but using an excuse that it routes through call centers is absurd. Local 911 departments have been routing calls for the last few years due to budget cuts. Thats a lame excuse.
;)
Also GPS doesnt work as well indoors, so people who said that, thats not really going to work. Right now, cellular companies use tringulation and RF timing to detect where you are, works pretty well. Cingular (Former ATT Wireless) has friend finder, where you can add your friends and family and see where they are. Or leave a phone in the your car, and find out all hours where the car is.
While Vonage is great and all, they are not taxed by anyone, as of yet. If you look at your baby bell phone bill, you'll see a tax of a few bucks on there each month for Emergency 911 service.
I pay for my 911 service, and so does everyone who uses a landline or a cell phone. Vonage wants access to this system, but they don't want to pay for it.
That is why the baby bell's are refusing access to the PRIVATE 911 network which they have established. We take 911 for granted, but it is a service that is private, and it is a service that we pay for.
Does Texas produce anything besides asshats?
Please tell us where you're from.
(I'm certain hilarity will ensue, and I could use a good laugh this morning.)
I just listened to the sound clip of the call at:h p?id= 849
http://www.oag.state.tx.us/oagNews/release.p
I don't see how this lawsuit will have any feet to stand on... first the message CLEARLY states that 911 service is not available on that line.. and instructs you what to do (have a neighbor call or... HEAVEN FORBID!!! call the police number like you used to have to do 5 years ago)... it's not like Vonage is being negligent about this in any way...
If you didn't want to paint it red, get one of these and put it under one of these.
Call it the "9-1-1 Emergency Phone" for the kiddies...
Get your Unix fortune now!
The real question is did the customer have the service turned on?
From vonage's website:
911 Dialing Is Not Automatically Set Up for Use. You Must Pre-Activate 911 Dialing. You May Decline 911 Dialing.
We STRONGLY urge you to activate 911 Dialing. Even if you don't plan to make 911 calls from your Vonage line, there may be others who do. You can't plan in advance for all situations. For example, a residential line could be used by babysitters, young children, in-laws, and others who may need to make 911 calls. If you decline 911 from Vonage, you or others will not be able to call 911 from your Vonage line. Don't play games with your safety. Register today
Of course that really doesn't matter. The fact is it didn't work and that's enough for someone to sue.
It would be interesting to know if they had the service turned on or not. Of course it should be on by default...
Think about it. There are MILLIONS of cell phones out there. There must have been plenty of times someone with a cell phone tried to call 911 but couldn't. I've never heard of a attorney general suing the cell phone industry.
But, merely ONE time it happens with Vonage, and the lawsuits begin. You don't find that even a little bit suspicious?!
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
With my smoke detector, I can press the TEST button and hear the loud noises it makes.
How will 911 react if I ring them up and say "Just testing the service works." ?
Sure. my providor may tell me whether it _should_ work, but, as you say, it is my personal responsibility to make sure it _does_ work, no?
b3 4phr41d 0f my 4bov3-4v3r4g3 c0mpu73r kn0wI3dg3!
MadDwarf
The OP could have expounded a bit, but I ask you all to reconsider as this was also my first, and yes a tad callous, thought.
Her parents were shot by an intruder. Daughter was obviously either hiding or protected well enough that she didn't get shot. The article states that she is 17 not 7 so the expectation is that she would not only know her address but also be able to provide location information, even in a brief space of time.
911 is to dispatch as soon as possible in an ermegency. That does not guarantee that any further mayhem may not occur until the calvary arrives. Dialing 911 is only the beginning of help. It's not a direct guarantee that the the minute you call, you're safe. It just means that someone else now knows that something bad has happened and that possibly the danger isn't over.
If you dial "0" on a Vonage phone do you get a local operator? Does someone even think about any of this in a time of emergency when their life is in danger? Probably not. Maybe not especially a 17 year old kid who's parents have been shot.
However, I work in telecom. People call and cancel their long distance because they're switching all their land line based svc to switch to VoIP. And I ask them if they are aware that they may not be able to reach 911. And the response 9 times out of 10 is that the savings is worth the risk. Of course no one will think that after an emergency. I wonder if her parents took the risk, initialed the little box, checked the appropriate little form box and if so, the risk factor assumed is their own, not Vonage's.
This also speaks to the litigous depths we will sink too. I'm so very tired of people, especially over-eager attorneys, thinking of lawsuits first instead of, "this was awful, let's work on preventing it in the future". Once upon a time we realized the world was not a perfect place. Now when we get pissed off or hurt or even just on a soapbox, we sue.
I hope Vonage doesn't have to spend more time and money focusing on a lawsuit than they could on improving the service and 911 support. The original post poses the fact that will a lawsuit change what happened? The answer is no. Will Vonage improve their service, lawsuit or no? Of course. Time and technology will take care of that.
911 is PRETTY GODDAMN IMPORTANT. Its taught to kids in Kindergarten. Everyone knows it. Its a universal number that connects you to the police. You can't say "Well, if people are too dumb to read the documentation, they shouldn't be upset."
Supporting 911 also includes having emergency services know your address, know your PHONE NUMBER, and other information. Its not just a macro that connects you to a PRIVATE company that might not even be open. A 5 year old who doesn't know what his address is can call 911 and have help arrive.
But according to some posters here, everyone should have read this fine print, buried in the terms of service:
2.1 Non-Availability of Traditional 911 or E911 Dialing Service
You acknowledge and understand that the Service does NOT support traditional 911 or E911 access to emergency services. Vonage does offer a limited 911-type service available only on Vonage Devices as described herein, but you acknowledge and understand that 911-type dialing is NOT automatic, that you must separately take affirmative steps, as described in this Agreement and on Vonage's website, to activate such 911-type dialing capabilities and that such 911-type dialing is different in a number of important ways (some, but not necessarily all, of which are described in this Agreement) from traditional 911 service. Vonage 911 dialing cannot be used in conjunction with a Vonage Soft Phone application and is only available on Vonage-certified Devices or Equipment. You agree to inform any household residents, guests and other third persons who may be present at the physical location where you utilize the Service of the non-availability of traditional 911 or E911 dialing from your Vonage Service and Device(s). If you activate Vonage 911-type dialing service, you agree to inform any household residents, guests and other third persons who may be present at the physical location where you utilize the Service as to the important differences and limitations of Vonage 911 dialing service as compared with traditional 911 or E911 dialing that are set forth in this Agreement.
2.2 Description of 911-Type Dialing Capabilities - Activation Required
Vonage does offer a 911-type dialing service in the U.S. (but may not offer such service in Canada) that is different in a number of important ways from traditional 911 service. You acknowledge and understand that 911-type dialing is NOT automatic. You must successfully activate the 911 dialing feature by following the instructions from the "Dial 911" link on your dashboard. You acknowledge and understand that you cannot dial 911 from this line unless and until you have received a confirming email. Once you have received a confirming email that 911 dialing has been successfully activated, you may dial 911 as needed. When you dial 911, your call is routed from the Vonage network to the Public Safety Answering Point (PSAP) or local emergency service personnel designated for the address that you listed at the time of activation. You acknowledge and understand that when you dial 911 from your Vonage equipment it is intended that you will be routed to the general telephone number for the PSAP or local emergency service provider (which may not be answered outside business hours), and may not be routed to the 911 dispatcher(s) who are specifically designated to receive incoming 911 calls using traditional 911 dialing. Vonage relies on third parties for the forwarding of information underlying such routing, and accordingly Vonage and its third party provider(s) disclaim any and all liability or responsibility in the event such information or routing is incorrect. As described herein, this 911-type dialing currently is NOT the same as traditional 911 or E911 dialing, and at this time, does not necessarily include all of the capabilities of traditional 911 dialing. Neither Vonage nor its officers or employees may be held liable for any claim, damage, or loss, and you hereby waive any and all such claims or causes of action, arising from or relati
I could be wrong but I believe the phone companies are required to keep 911 available when existing phone service is disonnected. They aren't required to run a new line to anyone's house but once a line is established they have to maintain 911 access.
I don't know if that's federal or state or what.