Texas Attorney General Sues Vonage over 911

bigtallmofo writes "Vonage VoIP customers and readers of many media reports should be aware that Vonage's support for 911 service is less than ideal. Now the Attorney General of the State of Texas is suing Vonage for failing to make clear the limitations of their 911 service. The issue was brought to the AG's attention after a 17-year old Houston girl was unable to reach police after dialing 911 when both of her parents were shot by an intruder."

Comments

Is Vonage the right person to sue?

[DeadSea]

I'm not sure that Vonage is the right person to sue here. 911 does need to be able to work from VOIP phones, but my understanding is that the 911 system is not easy to hook up.

The real number to which your 911 call is forwarded is some sort of state secret. The 911 call centers don't want to be called except for when 911 is dialed to avoid pranks, mistakes, and confusion. If you dial 911 from Vonage they forward your call to the publicly listed police number for your area. If they could figure out what the call center for your area would be, they would foward the call there. But my understanding is the list is not available to them.

The 911 problems with VOIP are that like cell phones, you can take a VOIP phone with you. It is not tied to a location. Unlike cell phones, you can't pinpoint the location as being near a tower. You are just "on the internet" which is not nearly as helpful. VOIP does not have embedded GPS either.

Here is a list of things that I think need to happen. Lets sue until the do (I don't care who):

1. Make 911 call center numbers available to VOIP providers
2. Embed GPS chips in black box VOIP boxes and configure them to send location information when 911 is dialed
3. Require VOIP providers to ask customers the expected physical location of their VOIP phone so that 911 will work when there is no GPS data
4. Require that VOIP providers inform customers that 911 will go to this location if they move their phone
5. Require VOIP providers to allow users to change this location easily either through their phone, or a web interface
6. Require VOIP providers to ask the "where is your phone" question again if other customer information like billing address changes

I'm not sure how well the GPS thing would work indoors. You might have to have the box say "I can't get a GPS signal, I won't work until I have one. Go plug me in near a window until I can see a satelite, then you can put me in the basement."

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Re:Is Vonage the right person to sue?

[WebHostingGuy]

I believe the logic behind suing Vonage is this--if you are going to be taking on a utility service to consumers but you (i.e., Vonage) still don't want to be regulated by collecting any taxes on 911 nor a telecommunications entity then you will bear the brunt of appearing to be a utility service, providing a utility service but not regulated nor subject to the laws applying to utility services. Therefore, you will be subject to taking responsibility for all actions coming from the use of your service. There is no doubt in the coming age Vonage and other VOIP providers will come under some modified regulations but until then states are going to have no mercy on them when they are being beaten by VOIP providers at each turn.

Re:Is Vonage the right person to sue?

[Chris_Jefferson]

If you read the article, you'll find Vonage are the right people to sue. They claim to support 911 in their adverts but:

1) You have to activate it manually and are never told this is the case (s you find out when you try to dial it.. great)
2) It's in many places only works during office hours(!!)

One problem is that the 911 service and the VOIP people have to work together more. At the moment the problem is Vonage claim they support 911, when it's badly designed and not automatically active. Thats false advertising and personally I don't think the penalties for that kind of false advertising can be high enough.

Re:Is Vonage the right person to sue?

[BrookHarty]

Landlines now have to be able to dial 911, even if you dont pay for service. I think its a FCC rule now. So even if you dont want phone service, you can still have a phone in your home for 911.

Re:Is Vonage the right person to sue?

[t_allardyce]

Theres an extra level of complexity added when people move - there was a case where a mother called 911 when her kid stopped breathing and she transferred through about 3 call centers before her kid died because there was some confusion about her address in the databases. There was some legislation to mandate GPS in cell phones if i remember right?

I think it would be useful if there was some number (say 922) that people could call that would let them know that their phone would go to the correct call center in an emergency and that the call center would know their address, the problem is that people are lazy and 8/10 homes will never check, sometimes socialism is needed to stop idiots hurting themselves lol.

Re:Is Vonage the right person to sue?

[gl4ss]

I've only seen their advertisements from which I base my opinion.

they clearly say that you can ditch your old landline.

One of the many reasons to keep a POTS line.

[mrshowtime]

Sigh, almost every major local phone service provider is required to keep every hardline connected capable of dialing 911, even if normal service has been disconnected.

cordless and base station power

[martin]

This also effects the cordless phones to a lesser extent too. Should the power go out most cordless phones don't have battery backup on the base station so the phone still works.

Many people get rid of their normal phone when they buy a multi-handset cordless, even though there's (in the UK at least) a big sticker on the phone that tells you about requiring mains power for the thing to work and the risk.

Huh?

[Cytlid]

I work for an ISP/Communications company in my area. I recently switched my number over to a beta voip test network we've been playing with. I seriously have no idea if 911 will work correctly. (Seeing as I'm geographically close to our switch, maybe it will).

So I'm a tad concerned about this.

On the other hand, I did have to dial 911 in the last year (or two?), *before* I had the VoIP service, while I had a traditional land line.

An electrical cable outside my house was about 60 years old and it decided it would short in the middle of the night. (Think this was last April or the year before). This was the main power to the house. I went out to investigate, and it was smoldering. I had no idea if the house was burning on the inside of the walls or not.

I run back inside and dial 911. Guess what? The girl didn't know my address. She fumbled for a few minutes and finally I gave it to her.

So if I know 911 had problems beforehand, why would I worry about my voip service? I've tried to make it completely clear to my family if something goes awry, we would need to use our cell phones...

I agree with Texas AG

[BrookHarty]

911 should be turned on by default, but using an excuse that it routes through call centers is absurd. Local 911 departments have been routing calls for the last few years due to budget cuts. Thats a lame excuse.

Also GPS doesnt work as well indoors, so people who said that, thats not really going to work. Right now, cellular companies use tringulation and RF timing to detect where you are, works pretty well. Cingular (Former ATT Wireless) has friend finder, where you can add your friends and family and see where they are. Or leave a phone in the your car, and find out all hours where the car is. ;)

911 isn't free...

[mecro]

This is easy.

While Vonage is great and all, they are not taxed by anyone, as of yet. If you look at your baby bell phone bill, you'll see a tax of a few bucks on there each month for Emergency 911 service.

I pay for my 911 service, and so does everyone who uses a landline or a cell phone. Vonage wants access to this system, but they don't want to pay for it.

That is why the baby bell's are refusing access to the PRIVATE 911 network which they have established. We take 911 for granted, but it is a service that is private, and it is a service that we pay for.

Re:This should be top priority

[DrSkwid]

how about this excuse :

where on earth are you ?

This is the internet, the IP connecting to the VOIP service isn't even necessarily in the same country as the handset.

Enterprising emergency service providers should start a low cost subscription service to hook up a batphone direct to the 911 center for you.

Re:Here I sit, cheeks a flexin'...

[RobotRunAmok]

Does Texas produce anything besides asshats?

Please tell us where you're from.

(I'm certain hilarity will ensue, and I could use a good laugh this morning.)

Paint it red...

[ImaLamer]

If you didn't want to paint it red, get one of these and put it under one of these.

Call it the "9-1-1 Emergency Phone" for the kiddies...

Was the service activated?

[portwojc]

The real question is did the customer have the service turned on?

From vonage's website:

911 Dialing Is Not Automatically Set Up for Use. You Must Pre-Activate 911 Dialing. You May Decline 911 Dialing.
We STRONGLY urge you to activate 911 Dialing. Even if you don't plan to make 911 calls from your Vonage line, there may be others who do. You can't plan in advance for all situations. For example, a residential line could be used by babysitters, young children, in-laws, and others who may need to make 911 calls. If you decline 911 from Vonage, you or others will not be able to call 911 from your Vonage line. Don't play games with your safety. Register today

Of course that really doesn't matter. The fact is it didn't work and that's enough for someone to sue.

It would be interesting to know if they had the service turned on or not. Of course it should be on by default...

Well, I'll disagree with the crowd.

[Gannoc]

911 is PRETTY GODDAMN IMPORTANT. Its taught to kids in Kindergarten. Everyone knows it. Its a universal number that connects you to the police. You can't say "Well, if people are too dumb to read the documentation, they shouldn't be upset."

Supporting 911 also includes having emergency services know your address, know your PHONE NUMBER, and other information. Its not just a macro that connects you to a PRIVATE company that might not even be open. A 5 year old who doesn't know what his address is can call 911 and have help arrive.

But according to some posters here, everyone should have read this fine print, buried in the terms of service:


2.1 Non-Availability of Traditional 911 or E911 Dialing Service
You acknowledge and understand that the Service does NOT support traditional 911 or E911 access to emergency services. Vonage does offer a limited 911-type service available only on Vonage Devices as described herein, but you acknowledge and understand that 911-type dialing is NOT automatic, that you must separately take affirmative steps, as described in this Agreement and on Vonage's website, to activate such 911-type dialing capabilities and that such 911-type dialing is different in a number of important ways (some, but not necessarily all, of which are described in this Agreement) from traditional 911 service. Vonage 911 dialing cannot be used in conjunction with a Vonage Soft Phone application and is only available on Vonage-certified Devices or Equipment. You agree to inform any household residents, guests and other third persons who may be present at the physical location where you utilize the Service of the non-availability of traditional 911 or E911 dialing from your Vonage Service and Device(s). If you activate Vonage 911-type dialing service, you agree to inform any household residents, guests and other third persons who may be present at the physical location where you utilize the Service as to the important differences and limitations of Vonage 911 dialing service as compared with traditional 911 or E911 dialing that are set forth in this Agreement.
2.2 Description of 911-Type Dialing Capabilities - Activation Required
Vonage does offer a 911-type dialing service in the U.S. (but may not offer such service in Canada) that is different in a number of important ways from traditional 911 service. You acknowledge and understand that 911-type dialing is NOT automatic. You must successfully activate the 911 dialing feature by following the instructions from the "Dial 911" link on your dashboard. You acknowledge and understand that you cannot dial 911 from this line unless and until you have received a confirming email. Once you have received a confirming email that 911 dialing has been successfully activated, you may dial 911 as needed. When you dial 911, your call is routed from the Vonage network to the Public Safety Answering Point (PSAP) or local emergency service personnel designated for the address that you listed at the time of activation. You acknowledge and understand that when you dial 911 from your Vonage equipment it is intended that you will be routed to the general telephone number for the PSAP or local emergency service provider (which may not be answered outside business hours), and may not be routed to the 911 dispatcher(s) who are specifically designated to receive incoming 911 calls using traditional 911 dialing. Vonage relies on third parties for the forwarding of information underlying such routing, and accordingly Vonage and its third party provider(s) disclaim any and all liability or responsibility in the event such information or routing is incorrect. As described herein, this 911-type dialing currently is NOT the same as traditional 911 or E911 dialing, and at this time, does not necessarily include all of the capabilities of traditional 911 dialing. Neither Vonage nor its officers or employees may be held liable for any claim, damage, or loss, and you hereby waive any and all such claims or causes of action, arising from or relati