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BitTorrent Inherently Illegal?

Nohbdy001 asks: "Today I received a letter from my university's network administration advising me that my network access would be terminated due to 'illegal P2P activity.' The P2P activity that the e-mail cited was BitTorrent and the file being transferred was an update to the Azureus BitTorrent client. The letter stated, 'Until the courts decide that student P2P activity is permitted we will continue to block this activity on our network,' implying that BitTorrent is inherently illegal. It seems such misunderstandings are common, but it is particularly frustrating when coming from people in the IT field. How can a student respond to such an accusation in order to defend the validity of BitTorrent and continue to benefit from its legitimate uses?"

19 of 857 comments (clear)

  1. It's unfortunate by daveschroeder · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't have any advice in particular. It's unfortunate because this really amounts to censorship and stifling academic freedom. Who's to say that the content you're accessing with a network tool - say, even a web browser - is appropriate? Sure, you can say that downloading pirated software or movies is inappropriate, but, in my opinion, academic institutions should have as hands-off an approach as possible. Illegal content can be accessed via the web, or email. Most would say it's absurd to suggest blocking port 80, or port 25. Why? Why is that any more absurd than blocking something such as BitTorrent, especially as BitTorrent's legitimate applications are increasing?

    During the heyday of Napster, the University of Wisconsin - Madison had a difficult decision. As it watched the traffic for Napster consume over 70% of total inbound bandwidth at its peak, we asked ourselves: do we start blocking Napster? After all, it's mostly used for stealing music. Right?

    Fortunately, the answer was a resounding "No," but not because we condoned illegally downloading copyrighted material. It was because the university didn't want to become de facto censors of information, in any form it may come. We decided that things like Napster were part of the cost of doing business as a major public research university. The solution was to add bandwidth, and deal with the technical aspects of the problem separate from any social aspects that may exist.

    Granted, some smaller institutions might not have been able to afford - economically or legally - to take this stance. But the University of Wisconsin felt it important enough to allow academic freedom and freedom of exchange of information to trump any other potential concerns, real or imagined.

    The university does respond on an individual basis to people clearly running warez servers, owned machines used for warez, specific C&D orders or other notices from copyright holders, etc., but we don't take a proactive approach. In fact, ironically, a proactive approach could be more dangerous, because it may mean that safe harbor provisions of some elements of copyright law (e.g. DMCA) won't apply: an ISP can't be held responsible for things it doesn't know about.

    1. Re:It's unfortunate by hendrix69 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Bandwidth considerations and legal issues are very different things. You can always limit the bandwidth that's allocated for p2p application in your network. But if RIAA decides to sue the university for huge sums of money it's in for a financial burn. The cost of the legal battle in itself is enough to deter almost any institution.
      Of course I agree that universities should not censor information, especially not in such unclever ways as declaring a protocol illegal. But I can understand why some universities have to kneel before the commerical powers that be.

      --
      The power of Christ compiles you!
    2. Re:It's unfortunate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Indeed, if you don't get 'first post' with an "ultimate platinum" subscription then the editors will keep posting the story until you do.

    3. Re:It's unfortunate by The+Snowman · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Why is that any more absurd than blocking something such as BitTorrent, especially as BitTorrent's legitimate applications are increasing?

      Color me naive, but I never realized BitTorrent had a following of pirates until recently. I always saw it billed as a way to grab large files (e.g. Linux ISOs) in a lot less time than HTTP or FTP transfers. In fact that is the only thing I ever use it for. To see organizations ban or restrict it pisses me off.

      Fortunately, the content industries seem to be taking a halfway correct approach: find people violating copyright using a technology, and prosecute those people. Even if BitTorrent gets a bad reputation, there are enough of us using it legitimately that 1) we won't go to jail and 2) BitTorrent will still have a legitimate user base and stay alive (thank you, OSS!).

      --
      24 beers in a case, 24 hours in a day. Coincidence? I think not!
    4. Re:It's unfortunate by Rei · · Score: 5, Insightful

      First off, IANAL. However, the person involved does probably have legal recourse. It's not libel, as some have suggested; the University is not publicly defaming the student, and it'll be hard to prove malice. However, it might be breach of contract.

      For example, in Guckenberger, et. al. V. Trustees of Boston University, et. al, they found the University liable for breach of contract simply by putting out promotional brochures claiming that the university was more accessible to the disabled than it was. In the words of the judge, they "form the basis of an enforceable contractual agreement." This is called "promissory estoppel". Basically, if someone promises something that makes you take actions to your detriment in order to gain that promise (i.e., paying to attend a university under the expectation of having full network services) and then fails to deliver, they're liable to you and you can sue for damages.

      If it's the case of a vague threat of RIAA/MPAA lawsuits that haven't materialized, faced with a very real threat of a student lawsuit, I think they might reconsider. If the student is concerned about this more than just a willingness to post an "ask slashdot", they should start a collection among similarly concerned students and retain a lawyer. Just a letter from a lawyer to the University threatening legal action for their stance would probably be enough, since they don't have any direct threats from the RIAA or MPAA to counterbalance it.

      --
      "It felt almost as good as stealing cars from grandma." -- Margaret Thatcher, probably.
    5. Re:It's unfortunate by rizzo420 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      you have this all wrong... a university limits bandwidth to p2p applications for reasons beyond the legality issues. they do it because (1) they can't afford to increase the total amount of bandwidth to campus in general without a major increase in tuition or a grant to do just that. they limit these applications because, regardless of legality, they are generally not being used for academic purposes (a student downloading legal music, such as concerts from bands that allow taping/trading, is not using the network for academic purposes). the primary purpose of the bandwidth to a university is academic and business related. everything else takes second to that. when p2p apps take over 70+% of the total bandwidth, it makes other uses difficult, including plain web browsing.

      i went to the university of connecticut. i worked for resnet at uconn. at the time, they did something similar with the bandwidth, throttled it way down during business hours. increased it a little from 5pm-8pm, a little more from 8pm-10pm, and it was no holds bar after 10. this was to allow night classes and any straggling professors or grad students doing research the ability to do their jobs. however, there was still a problem, so they throttled the upstream p2p bandwidth 24/7. this made everyone happy. i graduated in 2001. i think things are different there now, and they block most p2p all day, every day. things went downhill after certain staff members left there...

      i now work for providence college. a much smaller, private school. we don't have the money uconn does. p2p is throttled down completely, along with IRC. those that use IRC can have their ip adresses removed from the block. these blocks are because p2p took over our entire amount of bandwidth and made it difficult to do anything at any tiem of the day (including late night). we also don't have the time/money to deal with RIAA/MPAA issues, but that's not so much part of the reason for the block as the lack of bandwidth.

      --
      please me, have no regrets.
    6. Re:It's unfortunate by Audacious · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It is unfortunate. But like others here have stated, the thing to do is to NOT do anything rash or is a knee-jerk reaction. Instead, write the dean of the college with a CC to the head of the computing department. Cite the court cases where the judge has found in favor of those using BitTorrent.

      In the letter I would also cite that when cassette tape recorders first came out the music and movie industries screamed and yelled about these items being illegal for the common person to use. Their reasoning was that people would make millions of copies of songs and soundtracks. People did - but no where near as often as the music and movie industries tried to make it out to be. When VCRs first came out the music and movie industry again went to court and fought tooth and nail to prevent people from being able to use that technology. Then laser discs came and they again filed suit. Then CDs came out and they filed suit again. The United States of America was one of the LAST countries to have DVDs because of the music and movie industries lawsuits and lobbying of Congress. In all cases the technology could be used for illegal as well as legal copying of information. Whether songs, movies, or even games. In every single case the courts and Congress together have made it extremely clear that just because there is the opportunity to use a technology for illegal purposes it doesn't mean that everyone is going to use it for that purpose. (After all - cars are used to help bankrobbers, kidnappers, and others yet everyone still drives cars.) Further, after all of the hysteria, screaming, finger pointing, jeering, hyperbole, accusations, misleading and often outright lies propagated by these industries it has always been found that their fears were nothing more than ignorance of how the technology works. As well as how these industries should use them to increase their incomes. (For my part, I believe they really are just dragging their heels on implementing the new technologies because they don't want to spend the X number of dollars to install the new technology and use it. After all - they've got things pretty well locked up as is.)

      So that is what I would do. Write the dean of the college as well as the head of the computing center and lay things out for them. That you feel you are being punished unjustly for a crime you have not committed. Expain to them what the Azureus BitTorrent client does, how it helps to keep the bandwidth usage low (thus saving the university money), and I would imply that it would make everyone who is already using Azureus think less highly of your university (which they probably would). I would also ask those who use Azureus to send an e-mail to you with examples of what they are using the application for and I would include those into the letter to the dean and manager of the computing center.

      Hope things work out for you! :-)

      --
      Someone put a black hole in my pocket and now I'm broke. :-)
    7. Re:It's unfortunate by mjanosko · · Score: 5, Interesting

      working in the IT department at a MAJOR U.S. college has taught me a few things. One of them is: you never know what you agreed to. We have a security policy that is roughly 50 pages, and much like EULAs, wether you read it or not, you agree to its terms by using said system. (especially since our school has a user id/password process to get on the networks, and a special housing policy that must be signed.) and basicly in there it says that they can remove access to whatever they want whenever they want, and they can tell you want you cant and cant do at any time. now considering this is outlined in the policy you are agreeing to, i think all other legal precidence goes away. If the school pays the bills and offers the service free, and ESPECIALLY if they have you sign something acknowledging what they can/cant do, they can close anything they want and youre basicly shit out of luck. IANAL. my 2 cents.

  2. Legal Precedent by NorbMan · · Score: 5, Informative

    There is already legal precedent that P2P file sharing technology in itself is indeed legal. The Federal Appeals court that ruled was talking about networks like Morpheus and Grokster, but I would think the precedent set also applies to Bittorrent.

    Here's a quote from a news story back in August:

    "History has shown that time and market forces often provide equilibrium in balancing interests, whether the new technology be a player piano, a copier, a tape recorder, a video recorder, a personal computer, a karaoke machine, or an MP3 player," Thomas wrote. "Thus, it is prudent for courts to exercise caution before restructuring liability theories for the purpose of addressing specific market abuses, despite their apparent present magnitude."

  3. Easy question: by Ironsides · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Ask them what you were doing that was possibly illegal. If they can not name any possible source of infringment, you might be able to do something. As for all file sharing being illegal, point out to them that a webserver (such as the universities webserver) along with google does essentially the same thing.

    --
    Fly me to the moon Let me sing among those stars Let me see what spring is like On jupiter and mars
  4. You have no real alternative by Hanashi · · Score: 5, Informative
    As long as you're using the school's network, you have to abide by the school's policies. If they ask you not to do it, you pretty much have to comply if you want to keep your net connection.

    Still, it's probably worth a polite note to the network administrator to request "clarification". State your case concisely (they're usually busy) and politely, and you may get lucky.

    --
    Check out my eclectic infosec blog at InfoSecPotpou
    1. Re:You have no real alternative by Homology · · Score: 5, Insightful
      As long as you're using the school's network, you have to abide by the school's policies. If they ask you not to do it, you pretty much have to comply if you want to keep your net connection.

      It's the reason (i.e. need a court decision that P2P is legal) for not permitting P2P that is very odd, even by US standards. A policy based upon that P2P is not permitted due to excessive bandwidth usage is at least understandable.

  5. legitimate uses by Darkon · · Score: 5, Interesting


    Keep in mind that your definition of "legitimate use" may be quite different from theirs. University IT departments tend not to consider anything to be "legitimate" unless it has a valid academic application. Do you know of any academic uses for BitTorrent? Not trying to rain on your parade, but "I need it to download X" probably won't cut much ice.

  6. I work at a University by oni · · Score: 5, Insightful

    and I can tell you that the larger issue is the amount of bandwidth used by students. Universities pay by the bit and budgets are tight. The network has two purposes: first, it is there to help with your education. second, it is a recruiting tool - nobody would want to attend a school without network access.

    But beyond that, it's an expensive utility and the school really can't afford to open it up 100%. So, they are always looking for some way to justify restricting its use. It's sad that they have basically called you a theif, but don't take it personally. They're just trying to save money. It's wrong and it sucks for you, but that's the bottom line.

    Don't worry. college is only four years, and then you can get a good job and a real internet connection. For now, just concentrate on beer and girls

    and grades of course.

  7. Re:Well... by Nohbdy001 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I did indeed send a reply back citing several legitimate uses (linux ISOs, legal large multimedia etc...). After which, I agreed to suspend my BitTorrent usage temporarily until the issue was resolved. However, the reply I received seemed less than understanding. Aside from being thanked for discontinuing my use of BT, I was told that what I was doing was potentially dagerous. To quote part of the e-mail: "I think the issue is potentially dangerous for you and the university. Thanks for suspending BitTorrent."

    Which is why I bring the question to the community. Obviously using BT for legit purposes is not anymore dangerous than, say, browsing the web.

  8. Re:Let the NetAdmin scan your pc.... by akzeac · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Because if you're innocent, you don't need to be afraid?
    I thought the whole problem was of being thought guilty until proven innocent, now are you going to sell your right for privacy too?

  9. Talk to your Ombudsman! by bakaorg · · Score: 5, Informative

    Many univeristies have an Ombudsman, whose job it is to talk advocate for those trapped in meaningless rules which do not or should not apply.

  10. Re:Letter to IT by flydude18 · · Score: 5, Funny

    A better letter to IT:

    Dear IT Department,

    I will discontinue using unauthorized P2P protocols on your network. I appologize if my usage of such protocols has caused any problem for your department of for the University.

    From now on, I will only use allowed protocols, such as FTP and HTTP, to illegally download copyrighted material across your network.

  11. Re:Well... by bugnuts · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When someone tells you something they believe is true (BT is illegal) which you know is false, you cannot use logic. Simply don't argue with them or demand proof, since they can't produce any evidence that it's illegal. Besides that, the person that sent you the mail was probably not the person that made the policy, but is responsible for enforcing it.

    The only real recourse you have is to go to the dean which controls the networking group, and get a Decree From Above.

    It might've been he who implemented the policy at the behest of the networking dept, but since you're the victim, it's up to you to set him straight. Go prepared with many examples of legitimate uses of not only BT, but of other p2p applications, and even similar ones such as FTP. Show the obvious falsehoods of calling it illegal, and demonstrate the slippery slope.

    If this is a state school, the decree from above can actually come from a legislator. Write a (paper) letter and you'll probably get a response.