Comp Sci Programs at Junior Colleges?

An anonymous reader asks: "What place does a Computer Science Department play in a Community College? I recently started taking classes out of an interest in learning new things and getting a few college credits toward my first degree. I come to find out (only 1 semester after I started) that none of these credits will transfer to a bachelor's degree at one of our state schools. Many of the courses here are 'applied technology' such as Linux Administration/Installation or Web programming with PHP, but the local University only accepts their own 'theory based' courses such as Data Structures, Theory of operating systems, and so forth. I was wondering where a community college fits in, has anyone seen a great community college program recently and if anyone knows how these programs are designed?"

Comments

Wrong courses

[MobyDisk]

Those 'applied technology' courses are IT courses. The 'theory based' courses are CS courses. That's usually a different department. You should ask the university if they offer IT courses and what is comparable to the ones in the community college. I know that in Maryland, the community colleges don't offer much in CS.

I don't know your state, but I know that in Maryland, the community colleges, colleges, and universities have a shared system. You are guaranteed that any course you take in a state community college will transfer to any state school (and most non-state schools too).

It also depends...

[Nos.]

what you're final goal is. If you're looking for a degree, then yes, check before hand if any credits you're getting will transfer over. However, if you're goal is a job, then you have to look at what the qualifications are for the jobs you're interested in. Do they require a university degree or will a technical type diploma suffice? Do you have experience?
I completed most of a University degree but got fed up with the fact that all I was learning was theory, I really had very little idea how computers worked and had next to no programming knowledge. I worked part time at a local computer store putting together and fixing PCs. I picked up a help desk contract and started doing a lot of learning on my own. I'm now in a fairly senior tehcnical position (actually, the next step up is management). The university classes didn't really help, except to network and learn from things other students did in their spare time. What helped me was experience and proof I did learning on my own.

Depends on the community college

[Red_Winestain]

I work at a major public research university. My department awards no credit for any courses taken at the local community college. The reason is that the state cc system is in disarray and has no assurances about the courses. In particular, they cannot assure us about (1) qualifications of the instructor, (2) topics covered, and (3) types of assessment of learning. It isn't that the course is always bad; rather, it is too variable. It also is not the case that we're snobbish or elitist: we give credit to many different institutions at many different levels. It is just that the local cc is in disarray (and has been for years and years).

That said, other states do things differently: the cc system is specifically set up as a "feeder" to the larger public universities. In many cases, your 2 years at cc give you 2 years credit at the uni.

This may not help you, but to others, please check before hand about your local cc and transfer credits. We see lots of students who waste two years (of time and money) and get nothing at the next level.

Firsthand Info (albeit dated)

[SnowDog_2112]

I received a 2-year degree from a Massachusetts community college back in the early 90s, at a school which had tailored the program specifically for transfering to a 4-year school. They even had agreements with many schools such that as long as you had a 3.0 or higher GPA, you were guaranteed a transfer into the school.

I was at Springfield Technical Community College, and transfered the degree to WPI, where I eventually ended up getting my MS in CS. I absolutely feel my 2 years at STCC were no handicap to me in my academic knowledge.

URLs:
List of transfer programs
CS Transfer Program ... looks like my favorite professor is still hanging around there!

I actually feel I got an excellent grounding in CS from my introduction at the community college. I had, like you say, a Data Structures class. It was taught using C++, so I picked up some practical knowledge to go with the theory. Same with the introductory programming class, which used Pascal. Same with the machine language class, which had theory elements.

Basically I came out of the school with all the math I needed for a BS in CS (including linear algebra, DiffEQs, and discrete math), almost all of the science, and almost all of the humanities classes. I was a litle behind in CS theory classes, so when I got to WPI as a "Junior" I ended up enrolled in a couple "Sophomore" CS classes to catch up. It was really no big deal, and I had a little more practical knowledge than some of my classmates, too, because WPI at the time wasn't teaching C++ to its freshmen and sophomores.

Considering I saved, oh, maybe 15K+ each year by taking the first two years at a CC, I'm thrilled with how it worked out. Plus I could overload and take even more classes, at a cheaper cost per credit.

There's definitely a place for Community Colleges in science and engineering. You just need a program designed around it. Maybe your state has something similar....

Check more carefully

[DukeLinux]

I teach part time at a community college and we have courses that transfer and courses that do not. The ones I teach all transfer to the big schools so students can save a bit of money getting the lower division course work out of the way. We work closely with the larger universities in the area to ensure that we cover all the required material so that our students are properly prepared when they transfer.

Transferring as a CS major

[keebler]

Some time ago, I transferred out of a junior college into a four-year school as a CS major. Here's a basic howto:

1. If your JC offers discrete math, take it. Even if the university won't (automatically) accept it as transferable, take it. You can always petition for course credit, and discrete math is the most important intro class in a proper CS curriculum.
   
   
2. Ignore any language-specific programming classes, with the possible exception of Java (being the intro language of choice these days). Again, try to petition credit for the intro classes after you transfer, since they're largely a waste of time.
   
   
3. Take as much math as you can get, especially discrete math (see above), linear algebra and differential equations. Many 4-year schools lump linear algebra and diff.eq into one (terrible) class, and you'd be better off learning them separately. Believe it or not, they are useful in some upper divison classes, especially if you go into hardware.
   

Basically, junior college CS programs aren't designed for the same thing as those in universities. Find out what general (and not-so-general) classes you'll need for prerequisites after transferring, and try to knock those out of the way.

At the JC I attended, there were separate CS and IS departments. CS was there for "programming" and IS was there for "job skills". The really important stuff was all in the math department.

One thing I noticed once I had transferred, and this may just be a symptom of the particular university, but the transfer students in general had a better grip on basic math (ie calculus and discrete math) than the students who entered university as freshmen. The moral of the story is that universities focus more on the upper-division (ie interesting) stuff than the intro classes, and JC's are good for intro classes if you know how to game the system.