Comp Sci Programs at Junior Colleges?

An anonymous reader asks: "What place does a Computer Science Department play in a Community College? I recently started taking classes out of an interest in learning new things and getting a few college credits toward my first degree. I come to find out (only 1 semester after I started) that none of these credits will transfer to a bachelor's degree at one of our state schools. Many of the courses here are 'applied technology' such as Linux Administration/Installation or Web programming with PHP, but the local University only accepts their own 'theory based' courses such as Data Structures, Theory of operating systems, and so forth. I was wondering where a community college fits in, has anyone seen a great community college program recently and if anyone knows how these programs are designed?"

Comments

Wrong courses

[MobyDisk]

Those 'applied technology' courses are IT courses. The 'theory based' courses are CS courses. That's usually a different department. You should ask the university if they offer IT courses and what is comparable to the ones in the community college. I know that in Maryland, the community colleges don't offer much in CS.

I don't know your state, but I know that in Maryland, the community colleges, colleges, and universities have a shared system. You are guaranteed that any course you take in a state community college will transfer to any state school (and most non-state schools too).

Re:Wrong courses

[jhoger]

In the California community college system, at least at Fullerton College, we had a complete array of undergraduate CS courses. Everything you would normally get in the first two years... introductory programming, data structures, and the general math courses that are required were available.

I was able to get my AA in Computer Science, and transfer most of my credits to University to come in as a Junior in Computer Science. There were still lots of classes to take, but that's just because CS is a heavy unit major.

You need to see the counselors at both the university you intend to transfer to and the community college you are transferring from to make sure you are getting the classes you need and nothing more, and that you transfer at the right point.
-- John.

Not computer science

[eztiger]

PHP programming and linux admin (or any kindof admin) are not computer science disciplines.

The things they want (data structures etc) are. A more abstract layer that can be practically applied in any programming language.

Computer science is, funnily enough, more about the science.

You seem surprised that computer science is theory based...I'm afraid (at least from my own degree and others in surrounding universities) it largely is. The programming parts are merely to allow a practical presentation of the theory learned.

They generally expect you to pick up languages by yourself (you may get a quick introduction your first semester but you'll probably be handed a book and told to go read) and whilst you will probably be taught a smattering of unix, it won't be from a sysadmin point of view it will be from an IPC / pipes / OS theory / thread handling slant.

I'm not from the USA so I can't comment on community college courses but I would suggest you double check the Computer Science courses you're looking at to ensure it is actually what you want to do...better now than getting there and realising it's not what you thought.

Kev

What junior and community colleges are for

[pocari]

I'm not sure that there's anything not "great" about the school you're attending. Junior and community colleges typically provide very applied topics, like system administration or training in particular software packages or even programming languages. Even though it is unfortunately called "Computer Science," it is not what a CS department at a 4-year school would offer.

For students planning to go to 4-year schools, junior and community colleges offer what California schools call "general education" requirements: English, calculus, etc. Offering the type of CS class that a 4-year school would offer would be too specialized for them.

If your plan is to get a job right away learning skills you can pick up quickly, then that's what the CC CS classes are for. If you are looking for credits that will apply toward a bachelor's degree, they are probably in more general things like English, math, and science. In a community college, it is usually cheaper, and you get those things out of the way so you can focus on your major-related classes once you transfer.

Good luck!

It also depends...

[Nos.]

what you're final goal is. If you're looking for a degree, then yes, check before hand if any credits you're getting will transfer over. However, if you're goal is a job, then you have to look at what the qualifications are for the jobs you're interested in. Do they require a university degree or will a technical type diploma suffice? Do you have experience?
I completed most of a University degree but got fed up with the fact that all I was learning was theory, I really had very little idea how computers worked and had next to no programming knowledge. I worked part time at a local computer store putting together and fixing PCs. I picked up a help desk contract and started doing a lot of learning on my own. I'm now in a fairly senior tehcnical position (actually, the next step up is management). The university classes didn't really help, except to network and learn from things other students did in their spare time. What helped me was experience and proof I did learning on my own.

Depends on the community college

[Red_Winestain]

I work at a major public research university. My department awards no credit for any courses taken at the local community college. The reason is that the state cc system is in disarray and has no assurances about the courses. In particular, they cannot assure us about (1) qualifications of the instructor, (2) topics covered, and (3) types of assessment of learning. It isn't that the course is always bad; rather, it is too variable. It also is not the case that we're snobbish or elitist: we give credit to many different institutions at many different levels. It is just that the local cc is in disarray (and has been for years and years).

That said, other states do things differently: the cc system is specifically set up as a "feeder" to the larger public universities. In many cases, your 2 years at cc give you 2 years credit at the uni.

This may not help you, but to others, please check before hand about your local cc and transfer credits. We see lots of students who waste two years (of time and money) and get nothing at the next level.

University vs. Community College

[kenneth_martens]

A university degree program and a community college/technical institute program do not have the same focus. The community college's goal is to get you a job as soon as humanly possible, so they offer:

• Practical courses, e.g. DNS and BIND
  
• Current hottest technologies
  
• Immediate job skills

A university is about a foundation of theoretical knowledge. You don't go to university to be trained for a job, you go to learn the knowledge to understand a field. Universities offer:

• Theory-based courses, e.g. Networking
  
• Exposure to good technologies, not necessarily the latest hottest thing
  
• Related knowledge, such as mathematics
  
• No specific job skills

At a university they won't teach you the specific skills you'll need to get a job. That does not mean you won't have job skills by the time you graduate. You're expected to learn the theory in class and learn the practical job-skill aspects on your own. If you aren't comfortable with that responsibility, a university degree is not for you.

Re:I can't imagine a community college Comp. Sci.

[SnowDog_2112]

Absolute flamebait.

For example, check out this CS program at Springfield Technical Community College in Massachusetts. It's designed specifically to transfer into a 4-year CS degree and includes such "hard and specialized" topics as Discrete Math, Linear Algebra, Digital Logic, and Data Structures.

Sorry to say, but your gut instinct is completely incorrect in this instance.

I know because I went through that program, transfered to a 4-year school (WPI), and stuck around to get my Masters. And I wasn't the only one; several of my classmates in CS and other disciplines stuck out the two year transfer program and ended up graduating and are working in industry right now.

It can be done, and in some cases is a great way to bypass two expensive years at a 4-year school.

Same here...

[identity0]

I am going to a community college majoring in IT with a Unix/Linux concentration. I am finding that I wish I'd gone into another major, like graphic arts or English or something.

I basically did it because I figured since I'm a computer geek, I may as well get a degree in it. However, I've found that the IT program at my school sucks. 40% of the students have left the IT program in the last year. Most of the credits will not transfer to another school, so if I go to a CS program I might have to start from scratch. And I do want to study CS more than IT.

In retrospect, I am thinking I should have used the comm. college to broaden my horizons a bit before concentrating on getting a BS in my chosen field.

I don't mean any disrespect to them, but I suspect that the other departments are not as inferior to their 4-year school counterparts as the IT/CS departments at a CC. Perhaps majoring in something like math at a CC will help you in your quest for a BS. It would be more likely to transfer credits, anyways.

most CS majors learn that IT stuff on their own

[cheezus]

actually, it's my experience that most CS majors have significant background in it/programming before they even start university; it's this background that's often the driving force behind choosing CS

Dijkstra

[Rufus88]

"Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes"
--Edsger Dijkstra