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U.S. Government Wants Detailed College Data

Doofus writes "Apparently aggregate data are no longer enough for the trusty US Dept. of Education, as we can read in this opinion piece Alma Mater as Big Brother in today's Washington Post. As the author, a college president tells us, the governement would require schools "to report all their students' Social Security numbers and other information about each individual -- including credits earned, degree plan, race and ethnicity, and grants and loans received -- to a national databank". And the author counters by pointing out the obvious but real threat of such aggregation: "The creation of a gigantic database containing educational records and other personal data on millions would be a costly and troubling assault on privacy. This information could all too easily be shared with other government agencies or even with the private sector.""

24 of 78 comments (clear)

  1. God bless the Republic by oDDmON+oUT · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Cause the way things are going, it's damn sure that it's dead and someone needs to be saying the prayers.

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  2. what?? by josepha48 · · Score: 4, Insightful
    why so everyone can have their identity stolen after they graduate from college?

    Its bad enough reading about all these idetity thefts taking place, but when you find out its because someone decided to create this wonderful new database of only info that an identity theif could use.. does anyone else think this is a dumb idea?

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    1. Re:what?? by Short+Circuit · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's a little easier than that. First, a college can give semesters unique identifiers like "Summer 2004" "Fall 2004" and "Winter 2005", and report which students took which classes which semesters.

      But it gets even easier for the federal government...they need only dictate the format of data sent to them, and let the individual schools figure out the rest. That's part of the equipment and training costs that the artical mentions.

  3. Oh dear... by Morlark · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Won't somebody think of the children!
    Nice to see that they're still churning out complete screw-up policies like this. Oh wait, no it's not. Damn. It really saddens me how society seems to be going right down the drain, and the people who are supposed to be preventing this are usually the ones that end up causing it. This situation is a perfect example of why I really dislike the concept of politicians. Lets see, a group of people who desperately want lots of personal power. Uh, hello? Alarm bells ringing!

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  4. and thanks to FAFSA by museumpeace · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...no male who ever got a nickle in loans or scholarships has avoided being enrolled in this database from the get-go and which database is that? The selective service of course.

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    1. Re:and thanks to FAFSA by Short+Circuit · · Score: 2, Funny

      Eh? I was required to register when I turned 18. Did it online.

      And, while I applied for FAFSA aid, I never got a cent.

  5. These guys aren't Republicans by kshkval · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The people who are recommending this are not interested in your privacy. I recall a time when Republicans stood for a less intrusive government, or they did until they figured it served their interests to do otherwise. I switched my party affiliation from Republican to Democrat this year. Even Newt Gingrich doesn't understand what happened to the GOP. If it weren't for the fact that all the newspapers (except NYT) have rolled over in the face of the constant Bush terror propaganda, this kind of thing would be big news. Scary as fuckin hell.

    1. Re:These guys aren't Republicans by GreyWolf3000 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I feel the same way about Republicans, but wouldn't moving Libertarian be a more logical choice?

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    2. Re:These guys aren't Republicans by kshkval · · Score: 2, Insightful

      maybe... the one good thing that has come out of all this is that I'm looking at all the options, including Libertarian. The move to the Democratic party was as much a symbolic protest as a tactical move.

    3. Re:These guys aren't Republicans by slughead · · Score: 4, Informative

      Newt's gaining of power was directly related to the 19% Ross Perot got in 1992.

      You going democrat doesn't mean nearly as much as you going off the map. Off the map means they might get you back, democrat means you're in the "Us Vs. Them" mentality and are beyond convincing.

      Tactically, everyone should vote 3rd party. the lowest spending increases in 30 years occurred right after the 2nd biggest 3rd party triumph in over 50 years.

      Coincidence? Not a chance.

    4. Re:These guys aren't Republicans by sconeu · · Score: 2, Informative

      the USA PATRIOT Act, which gave most of this power to law enforcement, was approved under a democratically controlled congress

      WTF are you talking about? There hasn't been a Democrat controlled Congress since Clinton's first term!

      The Senate at that point was nominally Democratic (50-49, 1 IND, I believe -- Jeffries), but it was certainly not a "democratically controlled congress".

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    5. Re:These guys aren't Republicans by alexo · · Score: 3, Funny


      > I switched my party affiliation from Republican to Democrat this year.

      So you switched your affiliation from Kang to Kodos?
      Congratulations... I guess.

  6. This article is a bunch of FUD by 4/3PI*R^3 · · Score: 5, Informative

    The Department of Education already collects more information about students than you even imagine.

    First of all is the FAFSA. This has become the defacto student financial aid applications. Many institutions have their own financial aid applications but to receive any federal financial aid the person must fill out the FAFSA. All the data on the FAFSA is electronically transfered to the student's institution.

    Since federal financial aid can be administered by private banks as well as the government and this aid goes to millions of students in thousands of schools it is an enormaous exercise to track the data. Say hello to the National Student Clearinghouse. Not every school participaces in the NSCH but most of them do because everybody else does. From the NSCH, institutions can BUY your data.

    Each year ALL institutions that participate in federal financial aid programs, which is over 90% of them, must respond to the NCES IPEDS data collection. IPEDS is a complete, albeit aggregate, data collection tool but it drills down to such detail that for a small to medium sized instituion it's not difficult to get some good stuff.

    Many states have combined student data repositories that the state higher education committe can regularly utilize.

    This is just the start. Colleges regularly participate in data exchanges with other institutions. For those who want to scream FERPA right now, remember there is a big loophole called "legitimate academic interest" that allows the institution to use whatever data they so choose.

    There is more personalized data about each and every student floating around hundreds and even thousands of institutions that nobody has any control over any of it.

    The proposed list of variables the the department of education wants to collect per student can be seen on page 74 of the IPEDS SURS Feasability study.

    I work in an Institutional Research office in a major university what NCES is proposing in nothing compared to what is already available.

    1. Re:This article is a bunch of FUD by cgenman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The question, to a large degree, is "Why?" Why are they collecting this data? They stated reason is to get "better information on graduation rates and what students pay for college." However, that doesn't make any sense, as A: agregate information would reveal the answer to that and B: you just don't do a sociological study by polling everyone. Attempting to get data on every individual student in the US is a terribly, terribly wasteful study. Therefore, they must be looking for something different.

      And that is the fear, that the govermnet is fishing for dissidents. Lots of people subscribe to Mother Jones. But subscribing to Mother Jones, majoring in ecology at Berkeley, and flying out to Montana every 6 months? Must be a nut, they go on the TSA grey list. White, rich, and majoring in business administration? Must be OK.

      And that's really one of the major problems with data mining people. It's difficult to make such generalizations without being racist or discriminatory. Even if it is statistically justified, it still goes against a lot of the ideals of this country to say that being Muslim makes you more likely to hijack a plane, or that being poor increases your chances of trying to blow something up.

      There are volumes of aggregate information out there. There are huge repositories of privately-owned data that anyone can buy a piece of. But to have individual histories at such resolution and without stating the real reason you collect that data? It's a little scary.

      Of course, nothing that bad could ever happen here.

    2. Re:This article is a bunch of FUD by kabocox · · Score: 2, Insightful


      There is more personalized data about each and every student floating around hundreds and even thousands of institutions that nobody has any control over any of it.


      You know, although I don't trust the Federal Government that much, I wouldn't mind one agency having default ownership of all this data and be responsible for locking down the data sharing and keeping students privacy being intact.

      I always find it funny that people are upset at the federal government for tracking information about them. Hey, when I was born I got a birth cert. and a social sec. card., when I went to college I had to fill out FAFSA forms, when I got married I had to get a marriage cert. and it changes my tax status for some strange reason, when my two kids were born we had to get them birth cert. and SS cards. To attend public schools, we had to provide copies of shot records.

      We filled out the census.
      I and my wife have driver's license.

      We have a mortage on our house. We pay taxes to the IRS.

      If my wife and I decided to separate, that would be registered come tax time at a min.

      When my wife, one of my kids, or I die, their will be a death cert.

      What data do my wife and I have left that the government would care about?

    3. Re:This article is a bunch of FUD by cgenman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Will the current administration please repeat after me:

      The United States was never meant to have transparent citizenship. The United States was meant to have transparent government.


      I'm perfectly happy giving all of my data to the current administration. In return, though, I expect they won't mind my installing webcams around the oval office, tapping Bush's phone line, rifling through his financial records, and interviewing his daughters... I mean, unless he's doing something wrong, he's got nothing to hide. Right?

  7. What wouldn't be so bad... by kenthorvath · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...is if they collected this information, but didn't cross reference it between fields. Let them have my SSN, my majors, etc... but don't let them tie them all together in one big identifying lump.

  8. I'm not a historian by SunFan · · Score: 2, Insightful


    but governments cracking down on academia sounds stangely familiar to me.

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  9. What SSN? by MobyDisk · · Score: 3, Interesting

    How can schools report every students SSN when the colleges are required, by law, not to ask for SSN? Yes, yes, I know that they all DO ask for it, but it seems like this is going from ignorance of the law to intentionally going against it.

    On a note of that, I've been told that the social security act banned certain uses of the SSN as ID. Is that really really true? If so, where does it say that? I would love to actually take a university to court and make them change. Why hasn't anyone done this?

    1. Re:What SSN? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 2, Informative

      On a note of that, I've been told that the social security act banned certain uses of the SSN as ID.
      Is that really really true?


      Yes.

      If so, where does it say that?

      On the back of your social security card, "Not to be used for identification." At least they used to.

      I would love to actually take a university to court and make them change. Why hasn't anyone done this?

      Because it only applied to the card, not the actual number.

      Read the straight dope about it for more details.

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    2. Re:What SSN? by Kiaser+Zohsay · · Score: 2, Informative

      Even back in the mid-eighties, the fine print on college admission forms stated that you were not *required* to give your actual social security number, and that if you choose not to, a unique non-SSN number would be assigned to you. But then of course, you have two 9-digit ID numbers to keep up with, possibly more if you have psuedo numbers assigned by more than one organization.

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  10. Oh good by fuzzybunny · · Score: 2, Funny

    They'll probably store it on a laptop.

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  11. hellooooo draft. by SuperBanana · · Score: 4, Insightful
    why so everyone can have their identity stolen after they graduate from college?

    No. So that the US Armed Forces can recruit (or, if you want to be even more cynical, draft) who they please.

    Military recruiting is an an all-time low despite rather large bonuses for signing up, re-enlistment, and so on. If Iraq doesn't wrap up soon, the military will simply run out of people who want to be in the military.

    Rumsfield keeps telling us how they prefer a volunteer military, but if it comes down to "needing a soldier for that gun", they'll put anyone there.

    1. Re:hellooooo draft. by isotope23 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, but the Selective Service does not know WHAT skills you have. Although I do not necessarily agree with the parent that this related to the draft, there has been much more talk about a special skills draft as opposed to a general one.
      Having such a database would enable the feds to say : "We need people who speaks farsi, people with computer skills and medical skills." They would then have the ability to pull the records for people with those skills.

      IMO it is much more likely that this information will be used to target those people who do not fit the norm so they can be watched.
      One of the excuses I can see :

      "For your safety we need the records, so we know who took any biological or chemistry classes. Thus we will know who has the knowledge to make anthrax, nerve gas etc."

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