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MGM Concedes Some Fair-Use Rights Exist

jambarama writes "MGM seems to have given a little in the Grokster case. After getting nailed on the possible implications of banning P2P software, they've now admitted it is perfectly legal to rip one's own CD and store it. Is this a return to the stripped down 'fair use' rights or a temporary court concession?"

13 of 417 comments (clear)

  1. 'stripped down fair use rights' by Richard_at_work · · Score: 3, Informative

    Uhm, I know that most Slashdotters like to think otherwise, but Fair Use doesnt actually cover most of the things that are commented on on this site. Yes, its may be Fair Use to rip your own CDs, but this is an 'if possible' right, nowhere in copyright law is fair use actually a requirement of distribution - copyright owners dont have to make any considerations for it when implementing copyright protection.

    1. Re:'stripped down fair use rights' by mark-t · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually, ripping your own CD's isn't fair use, it's personal use, which at least in Canada is _specifically_ described in the Copyright Act. Fair use is something else, covering things like satires, research purposes, and the like.

    2. Re:'stripped down fair use rights' by kraada · · Score: 3, Informative

      If it's Fair use to rip your CDs, then it's Fair Use to rip your CDs even if there is DRM in the way. You are converting from one medium to another. This would severely weaken the DMCA, a law about which we have all been complaining profusely.

      You're right that the music and video industries can try and implement more and more complicated DRM in order to make it very hard for people to rip said materials. However, they will continue to be broken. And if the conversion is legal, the tool used to do the conversion (via the Betamax decision) is legal as well.

      All of which is indeed important and good for the consumer in the long term. (Now I'm just hoping this wasn't an april fool's joke by the zdnet bloggers . . .)

  2. Re:Completely meaningless statement by jasomill · · Score: 5, Informative
    There is no such thing as "judicial estoppel". If he meant collateral estoppel or res judicata, those only apply to rulings by the court, not statements made in court.

    judicial estoppel. Estoppel that prevents a party from contradicting previous declarations made during the same or a later proceeding if the change in position would adversely affect the proceeding or constitute a fraud on the court. --- Also termed doctrine of preclusion of inconsistent positions; doctrine of the conclusiveness of the judgment.

    --- Black's Law Dictionary, Seventh Edition
  3. Re:Thank you, MGM by Fjornir · · Score: 5, Informative
    opps, wait a minute, Privacy isn't expressly listed in the Constitution either.

    You missed the part about "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches..." I take it?

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  4. Re:Thank you, MGM by xgamer04 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Privacy isn't expressly listed in the Constitution either.

    From the US Constitution:

    Article the fifth [Amendment III]

    No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

    Article the sixth [Amendment IV]

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

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  5. Comparison to DVD... by doormat · · Score: 4, Informative

    I like the last question in the article. Basically it poses the question that since MGM admitted its legal, vis a vis fair use, to rip CDs to put on an iPod, shouldn't fair use cover ripping DVDs to another device (like a PSP, or some portable media jukebox).

    The answer involves the DMCA and encryption and how the DMCA is worded to excerpt fair use, even though you broke the encryption. I'm quite interested to see what legal geeks say about this (since IANAL).

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  6. Re:Completely meaningless statement by WebHostingGuy · · Score: 3, Informative

    You can see the key word in that defination as "declaration". This word has special meaning is is not what happened here. The attorney was arguing a case and not making a legal declaration. Further, it was in response to a question, and could be constued as a hypothetical.

    In real life attorneys state a lot of different things in arguments and easily go back and forth on positions. This case does not have the issue of fair use in front of it so a passing statement like this will get news headlines but will not be binding.

    Furthermore, even if this does come back up it can be easily defended by stating that one interpretation under the law is that it is fair use. However, at any time a client can assert a position contrary if they feel the situation has changed or they believe an extension or repeal in the law is now proper. That is, "I changed my mind and a better reading of the law now is that it is now fair use." That's okay to do.

    If you had the situation where MGM was relying on fair use to win a case where they copied something as used it and stated that ripping a CD was okay under their circumstances then later they try to win another case where they are now asserting that it is illegal--that's was the defination is talking about.

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  7. Re:Thank you, MGM by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 4, Informative
    This comment if just an FYI to everyone who feels that Fair Use ranks right up there with Privacy -- opps, wait a minute, Privacy isn't expressly listed in the Constitution either.

    Pragmatically, in this case what matters is what the SCOTUS thinks. Here's one opinion:
    "The primary objective of copyright is not to reward the labor of authors, but to promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts. To this end, copyright assures authors the right to their original expression, but encourages others to build freely upon the ideas and information conveyed by a work. This result is neither unfair nor unfortunate. It is the means by which copyright advances the progress of science and art."
    - Sandra Day O'Connor

    A popular quip around the SCOTUS, due to its divided nature, is "let's just take the case to Sandra Day O'Connor".
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  8. MGM OKs Ripping [Re:Thank you, MGM] by chronicon · · Score: 5, Informative
    Once the case is over MGM can always go back to claiming otherwise

    No they can't, according to this article:

    ...if they actually win this case they ll be barred from challenging ripping in the future under the doctrine of judicial estoppel.

    This is a very important point. They cannot have it both ways--whether they like it or not. They have let the proverbial cat out of the bag.

    1. Re:MGM OKs Ripping [Re:Thank you, MGM] by ePhil_One · · Score: 4, Informative
      FYI Judicial Estoppel precludes a party from asserting a position in a legal proceeding that is contrary to a position taken by him or her in a prior legal proceeding.

      Still, This isn't why they are trying to implement copy protection and it won't affect their attempts to create an uncopyable media. If they can stop you from ripping to MP3, they can keep the song/movie/whatever off the P2P networks. The fact that its impossible to make it uncopyable without making it unlistenable won't stop them from trying.

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  9. Fair Use doesn't apply to private collections by wombert · · Score: 4, Informative

    http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107

    Read sections 107 and 108 -

    "Fair Use" refers to reproducing works in part or in whole for comment, criticism, or scholarship. It doesn't work for your private DVD collection

    Archival copies are permitted for public libraries or research archives. Again (and unfortunately), this doesn't apply to your private DVD collection.

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  10. Re:Thank you, MGM by Alsee · · Score: 4, Informative

    Do you realize that 17 USC Sec. 107. - Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use doesn't actually do anything? That it could be stricken from law and nothing would change?

    Section 107 does not define or grant fair use.
    Section 107 was first added to copyright law in 1976. Fair use was established by the courts in the early 1800's. It is impossible for a law passed in 1976 to grant or create something that had existed well over a hundred years.

    If you check the 1976 congression record when 107 was added to the text of law you'll find the legislators explicitly stated that 107 was not intended to expand, diminish, or alter existing fair use in any way. That it was merely intended to reflect the existing fact of fair use.

    If you read the text of 107 very carefully the only thing is actually enforces as a matter of law is "the fair use of a copyrighted work [] is not an infringement of copyright", period. The rest of the text merely gives a list of examples of things that are usually fair use, and the last half lists four examples a court shall consider in determining fair use. Courts are perfectly free to consider other factors, and courts routinely do consider other factors such as whether a use is "transformative". The courts are perfectly free to give the four listed factors zero relative weight if they wish. So the only part of the law that actually says anything binding is that fair use is not infringment.

    There is a reason the law does not attempt to define or restrict fair use in any way, a reason the law allows the courts can define fair use however they wish. The reason is that fair use was established by the courts on constitutional grounds. The court had found that the raw text of copyright law was unconstitutional. That copyright law would be struck down as null and void if the courts did not invent 'fair use' to rescue copyright from being stuck down. The courts assumed that copyright law implicitly does not actually attempt to restrict what it claims to restrict. That copyright law implicitly flees in the face of fair use, to avoid being unconstitutional and invalidated.

    Most of fair use was established on First Amendment grounds. The raw text of copyright claims to restrict any and all copying. The raw text of copyright claims it would be infringment for a critical review in a newspaper to copy even a small excerpt of text for that review. The raw text of copyright law claims to make effective criticism illegal. This is an unconstitutional prohibition of vital free speech. In this case it is also a violation of the copyright clause of the constitution stating that the purpose of copyright is to promote progress. Suppressing effective review and criticism would not only burden free speech, it would be an intolerable hinderance of progress. Doubly unconstitutional, and making copyright law doubly invalid if it actually restricted what it claims to restrict.

    Fair use is the embodiment of Constitutionally protected rights. Copyright does not grant ot define fair use, it is fair use which sweeps away and restricts copyright. Fair use is the only thing saving copyright law from being null and void. Any attempt to pass a law to infringe or revoke fair use use would be unconstitutional.

    Fair use does indeed trump copyright.

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