Is Obtaining a Windows Refund Still Difficult?

Bubblehead asks: "A few years ago, everybody was talking about returning their copy of Windows to receive a refund. I plan on buying a Laptop shortly, and most manufacturers still insist on shipping it with some version of Windows. I was wondering what the state of the affairs is - there isn't that much information on the net. The most prominent piece of information is this 2003 Linux Journal Report outlining how the author had to go to small claims court to receive a refund. Any experiences - especially with vendors that do not offer an alternative?"

Comments

Shouldn't the question be:

[winkydink]

Do you value your time so little that it's worth going through the hassle?

I guess if you're extremely principled, I can see doing it.

Re:Shouldn't the question be:

[TeknoHog]

I'm somewhat principled. In this case, the principle is called market economy.

In market economy, you don't just buy things to get them for yourself. When you buy a product, you are giving a message to the manufacturer that there is demand, and that you like their products better than their competitors'. Your actions are shaping the industry.

If I'm forced to buy a copy of Windows I don't want, I'm giving the wrong message to the industry. For example, Linux drivers are not being developed well enough, because everyone thinks everyone uses Windows. It's not quite true, but the industry is getting the message that everyone wants Windows, because of this imbecile policy of OEM Windows copies.

In the end, I'm doing this because I'm greedy: I want good Linux drivers. It probably helps if I give everyone the message that I prefer to use Linux rather than Windows on my machines.

What??

[surefooted1]

Why would you buy a prefab machine with windows knowing that you didn't want it in the first place? If I buy a car and don't like the rims, I don't ask the manufacturer or dealer for a refund. Don't buy from that vendor. No one put a gun to your head. This is stupid.

Any experiences - especially with vendors that do not offer an alternative?"

The wording of that would lead me to belive that there are vendors that do offer an alternative. So once again...this is stupid.

Re:What??

[RealAlaskan]

If I buy a car and don't like the rims ...

When this was on slashdot almost two years back, I seem to recall that there were too many dozens of posts making bad analogies to cars and car dealers.

Folks, computers are fundamentally different from cars, and most other goods[1]. Argument by analogy is a bad plan in general, but argument by bad analogy is a sure-fire disaster. Let's try arguing by logic, or inspecting the entrails of goats, instead.

I suppose that I've just unleashed a thousand bad analogies which will prove my point while trying to disprove it. Sigh.

[1]So, why are they fundamentally different? Microsoft's monopoly, the unique dependence on software to make them useful, (and the unique characteristics of that software, relative to any physical good, including computers), the fact that they are general purpose machines to an extent that nothing else is, and on and on. You might find one of these exceptional circumstances in any field, but you're unlikely to find all of them anywhere else. Unless your analogy accounts for all of these and more, it's probably wrong.

Why shouldn't he charge you extra?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're asking for extra labor, you should pay extra money.

If all their drives are pre-imaged with whatever selection OSs their inventory system can tolerate, that's good for 99.9995% of all their customers, why shouldn't the guy who wants to be different and have the work done for him pay for it?

Re:Why shouldn't he charge you extra?

[yagu]

so, just how do they get pre-imaged? They're certainly not being shipped from the manufacturer (hard drive) that way! They've got staff doing the imaging... highly automated to be sure, but what is it going to take to "not" pre-image one? "Hey, Joe!, don't pre-image that one!" is my guess. And, am I a guy (you're assuming, btw) who wants to be different?, or one who has a specific requirement in a field that should but doesn't have options because of the illegal practices of one monopolistic giant?

Using a car as an example (I hate doing this) it might be like one tire manufacturer insisting through bullying and manipulating that ALL cars are delivered with their specific brand of tires, even though they are very specific and non-general tires, and there is ample evidence of a market for other types of tires (non-studded, low temp, etc)... It would be an unfair market place if consumers had to pay that "tax" (even if labor were involved to remove and replace said tires with other type) to get a product more suitable to their needs.

This isn't an issue of people being pissy and making snippy demands, it's an issue of a marketplace gone awry and still not corrected by the tactics still in practice by one giant firm, albeit practiced in a more nuanced and subtle way.

Simple answer to that...

[gosand]

Heh. The last time I asked whether it was possible to buy a laptop without a pre-installed operating system, I was told that selling one could expose the company to litigation. The reason: knowingly selling a non-functional product.

Simple Solution: Include a bootable Linux distro with the laptop. It proves it is working, but doesn't alter it in any way. It is about as close to free as you can get (cost of a blank cd). I would, in fact, recommend trying out the laptop with your bootable distro of choice before buying it. (if you can find the model you want in a brick-n-mortar store)

lawsuit?

[gosand]

To use the (slightly flawed) car analogy, can I return the spare tire because I don't feel I need it and ask for $50 back?

No, but you could sell that spare tire without the automobile manufacturer suing you.

Re:No windows

[cowscows]

It is functional though. As long as all the parts they sold you work. I can go to CompUSA and buy an optical mouse. It's pretty much worthless without a computer to go with it, but that doesn't mean that it's nonfunctional. My computer came with a CD burner, but no blank cd's. So I couldn't burn a CD without making another purchase, but that doesn't mean my computer was broken.

That's not a compelling reason at all.

DiscountLaptops.com ships GREAT laptops with no OS

[fmerenda]

I bought my laptop (A Sager 5690 - model no longer sold on their site) from http://www.discountlaptops.com/, and I couldn't be happer with it. No operating system, great value, and excellent customer service. I also paid about $1,000 less for my laptop than I would have paid if I bought it from Dell (P4 w/hyperthreading, 2GB ram, 1400x1050 LCD, over a year ago). If you don't believe me read their buyer ratings at the bottom of their web site. I actually had to return my laptop for repairs because of a faulty motherboard, and they paid for all the shipping and had my laptop back to me in a few days. The owner of the company emailed me several times before I bought the laptop and answered questions I had about it (like what ethernet chip it had), and made *objective* suggestions about which laptop I should buy. The owner also contacted me several times during my warranty work episode and I felt extremely comfortable that he was making sure that I was well taken care of by Sager. (Sager and Chembook are two of the main manufacturers that they sell on their site. These are the companies that sell to places like Alienware, Hypersonic PC, Pro-star, Voodoo PC and many others. I'm running Ubuntu Hoary on it now, and have not had any problems at all. Before this I ran Fedora Core 2 and 3 with no problems (save the faulty motherboard).

I can't recommend discountlaptops.com enough. I don't work for them or anything like that, I am just a happy, happy customer. You can bet my next laptop will be from them as well.

I did it

[Anonymous Coward]

and got an apologetic letter too. They EULA says that if you do not agree to the license, you can return it to the retailer for a refund.

I had to take watford electronics to court (small claims), though they backed down about a week before they court appearance.

The interesting thing about their defense was it was "The EULA is not binding on us because we are a third party, the license being between microsoft and yourself".

My reply was that they purchased the OEM copy with that EULA and that it was I that had no relationship to MS. If they didn't want to be bound by the EULA then they could have put a different version of Windows on there.