Slashdot Mirror


Munich Court Again Enforces GPL

BrianWCarver writes "Despite earlier concerns reported on Slashdot that the GPL might be particularly difficult to enforce in Germany, that country's courts now hold the distinction of having enforced it twice. The first enforcement came in 2004 when Harald Welte of the netfilter/iptables core team sought to enjoin Sitecom from distributing its WL-122 router, which used netfilter's GPL'd code, without also providing the source code and a copy of the GPL, as that license requires. The Munich Court granted Welte a preliminary injunction and then upheld that injunction (Court's decision in English pdf) and now Sitecom provides the source code from their website. Welte, who also now runs gpl-violations.org to track GPL violations, and who personally handed over warning letters at Cebit to companies not in compliance with the GPL, reported on his blog today that he has obtained a new preliminary injunction enforcing the GPL, this time against Fortinet for distributing their firewall products (FortiGate and FortiWiFi) that include GPL'd code while Fortinet refuses to release the source. Congratulations again to Welte and his attorneys!"

14 of 311 comments (clear)

  1. So, basically by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So basically, people go around seeking license infringers and go after them legally when they don't follow it?

    How is this different from the RIAA going after its infringers? In both cases, they're intellectual property violations.

    Are we only for the idea of intellectual property when it applies to GPL authors? I mean, why should I follow the GPL anyway? I'm told in one situation that copyright is flawed and evil, and in the next I'm told to follow GPL copyright.

    Just playing devil's advocate here.

    1. Re:So, basically by Krach42 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The RIAA suing filesharers == someone taking something prohibitive and making it free

      GPL developers suing people who steal their code out of compliance == someone taking something free and making it prohibitive.

      There's a fundamental difference in that those stealing GPL code are stealing from EVERYONE, not just from the author.

      --

      I am unamerican, and proud of it!
    2. Re:So, basically by klingens · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Welte doesn't do it against private citizens by threatening them to sue, extorting money for settlements. A typical filesharer doesn't sell the downloaded music for money either.

      The first thing a filesharer sees from the RIAA is a C&D letter demanding money. Welte tells the infringing companies "We know you use GPLed code in your products you sell. Clean up your act or we will do more than just remind you about it.". At this time, there is no fine to pay if the company complies.

      The company in question, Fortinet, ignored him and did what all scumbags do then: they tried to hide the GPL violations by obfuscation.

    3. Re:So, basically by Krach42 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Exactly, this is what's getting me about all these GPL violators.

      We're not asking for money, we're asking for a simple compliance. What the hell is wrong with you that you'd rather spend money paying lawyers to defend your belief that you can take GPL code and use it how you please, than not pay a lawyer, keep your money, and just comply.

      Some of these GPL violators have to be idiots, or have idiot lawyers.

      --

      I am unamerican, and proud of it!
    4. Re:So, basically by kebes · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Most people who support the GPL view it as copyleft, not copyright. The GPL is a compromise for a non-ideal world. Basically it is exploiting the nature of current freedom-restricting legal structures (copyright) in order to guarantee freedoms that would otherwise be removed.

      In an ideal world, we wouldn't need the GPL, since everyone would play nice and information would be free. In the real world, the GPL (and similar licenses) are a compromise that safeguard our freedoms.

      Therein lies the difference. It is not hypocritical to be in favor of GPL but be against conventional copyright, since the root ideology is very different in the two cases. If it were merely a legal issue, then it would be hypocritical to favor one over the other. However it is not merely legal: it is a matter of ethics and wanting the world to be a certain way. Put more simply: I can be favor of law and order and civilized society in general, but still be against certain laws in particular. This is not hypocritical.

    5. Re:So, basically by DickBreath · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Every time there is an article related to either the GPL or the RIAA someone raises the same argument. And it should get the same answer...

      The purpose of the GPL is to ensure freedom. If it wern't for the possibility that someone monopolist would take free code and use it to make obscene profits, while at the same time making that code incompatible with the free versions, most of the "open source" or "free software" work would probably have been Public Domain instead.

      The reason RMS devised the GPL was as a great way to subvert the system to force freedom.

      The RIAA on the other hand is an immoral, corrupt organization that keeps artists poor, charges obscene prices for music, while using those profits to lobby congress to get themselves infinite copyright against the intent in the US constitution, and stamp out any competing form of music distribution. I don't see any moral comparison at all.

      Here is an excellent article that might inform you on the subject.
      New Arguments Against P2P: The Phony Moral Debate


      Are we only for the idea of intellectual property when it applies to GPL authors? I'm told in one situation that copyright is flawed and evil, and in the next I'm told to follow GPL copyright.

      I am for the original intent of copyright and patents in the constitution. Not what they have been corrupted into by mega corporations. Again, the GPL wouldn't need to exist if it wern't for the misbehavior of corporations. Copyright in its present corrupted form is flawed and evil. You should follow the GPL because its purpose is to ensure freedom. Your freedom even. The GPL is to ensure YOUR freedom to use and study the code.

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    6. Re:So, basically by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You're an idiot.

      One: In a free market, things are worth what people will pay for them. I could spend years painstakingly making a car out of matchsticks. My exorbitant time and effort costs would NOT mean that my idiotic matchstick car is worth more to anyone who just wants a car to drive down the shops. Similarly, artists can rant all they want about how much time and effort they put into some work.

      Two: If you break a window of my car, take it downtown so anyone else can drive it, etc. - I don't have my car anymore. If you could take a magic COPY of my car and leave me still with my car, anyone (here - maybe americans are so brainwashed that they would act differently) would rightly consider me a complete asshole if I objected.

    7. Re:So, basically by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't listen to music that I don't have a right to listen to

      There's no such thing as music you don't have a right to listen to. There's music you don't have a right to copy. There's music you don't have a right to broadcast. But there is no music that you don't have the right to listen to. Copyright regulates copying and broadcasting, it does not regulate use.

    8. Re:So, basically by Dun+Malg · · Score: 5, Insightful
      If I break the window to your car, hotwire it, and then leave it in the middle of downtown so that anyone else can drive it, too, I'm taking something prohibitive and making it free, but that doesn't make it right.

      Please, this tortured analogy comes up evry time. There are fundamental differences between real property and "intellectual" property. The two are not comparable. The former is diminished by sharing, while the latter is not. The former is covered by laws about real property while the latter is covered by (in this case) copyright law, which has no relation whatsoever to real property law. So leave your analogies about stolen cars, walking into my living room, and transferring money from my bank account to yours, because THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING.

      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
    9. Re:So, basically by jusdisgi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Geez. I have to assume you have heard the FSF party line by now: "Without copyright the GPL would be unenforceable. It would also be unnecessary".

      That's not the way I've ever heard or read it. I've always read it just like that, but without the last sentence. Because that doesn't make any damned sense; why would the absence of copyright law make the GPL unnecessary? I can see how it would make it unenforceable, but it seems to me that in a world without copyright law companies would easily be able to take free (GPL) software and distribute it binary-only without releasing their changes or the source. Which is to say, the GPL would still be necessary if you want to accomplish its goals......it's just that the necessity would be unfulfillable, and it would simply be impossible to do the things that the GPL does. Well, without hired goons.

      Why? Because copyright is a good thing. It just needs to be used for the right purposes. Enforcing the GPL is one of them.

      --
      Given a choice between free speech and free beer, most people will take the beer.
    10. Re:So, basically by Bradee-oh! · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There is a key difference - not between right and wrong, but between tactics.

      The RIAA SHOULD stop copyright infringers just as FOSS groups SHOULD stop GPL violations.

      But the RIAA collects coinicidental evidence for high volumes of people and, without nearly enough proof, accuses them all of breaking the law. Yes, alot of them are violators. But everytime you hear "RIAA sues another 200 people" in the headlines at least a handful of them are let off because the accusations were so outlandish compared to reality.

      These GPL enforcements are neither broad nor hasteful. These people do their research. They take a suspected GPL violation. Research it until it is a LIKELY GPL violation. Research it until they have PROOF that it is a violation. They then contact the infringer and file for an injunction after fulfilling every RESPONSIBILITY that the ACCUSER should be required to fulfill.

      Is copying and sharing music illegal? In most cases yes!
      Should perpetrators be stopped? Yes!
      Does the same apply to GPL violators? Yes!

      It's not a question of legality or right vs. wrong. It's a question of ethics in the quest to stop the violations.

      Maybe thats just my $.02, someone "correct" me if they have a different opinion.

      --
      "This is Zombo Com, and welcome to you who have come to Zombo Com" - www.zombo.com
    11. Re:So, basically by CodeBuster · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There may indeed be some hypocrisy among Slashdot members with regard to the issue of copyright, intellectual property rights, and licensing. However, for my part, I am not against the RIAA or the MPAA licensing their copyrighted works in any manner that they wish as long as the terms of the agreements are consistent with the applicable laws. The grievances that I and many others have against organizations (MPAA, RIAA, et al) stem from several sources. First, these organizations are engaged in aggressive attempt to undermine the balance of copyright by rewriting the copyright laws in their favor. They forget that the purpose of copyright is, as determined by our founding fathers in Article I, Section 8, Clause 8 of the United States Constitution:

      "To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries."

      It is not, as the RIAA and MPAA would have us believe, to protect artists against those who would steal the fruits of their labor. Copyright is a contract which defines a balance of power between creators and the public to promote the common good. It does not exist to protect profits and revenues that are derived form coincidental past inefficiencies in production and distribution which brings me to my second point. These organizations also seek legislative protection against new technologies which threaten their entrenched business models when it is clear that no compelling reason exists for the Congress to override the overwhelming public interest in the beneficial economic process of creative destruction to artificially shelter, through legislative Fiat, the existing firms from the discipline of the marketplace. I am not against copyright, nor am I anti-business, but I feel that organizations like the RIAA and MPAA are acting in bad faith to the detriment of us all when they seek to beat the marketplace into submission with the cudgel of draconian, un-American, and unconstitutional legislation.

  2. Re:nice try by Unit3 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    haha I love how you classify a "real" court as being a "US one". I mean, never mind that the US legal system is the worldwide example of "what not to do", and has no bearing whatsoever on any country that is *not* the US (ie, the majority of the world population, and these days, the places where most of the OSS development is taking place).

    --
    -- sudo.ca
  3. Damn pro-business GPL haters by hellfire · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I guess I've not been paying attention to all the posts in other threads that are so anti-GPL, but I had no idea there were so many asses out there who believe GPL is anti business.

    Let me be clear... the GPL is anti-bad business. GPL is pro-good business and pro consumer. And remember businesses are consumers too, the bad businesses are primarily the huge bureaucratic companies which turn out buggy lame software that doesn't always do what you expect it to do.

    Now let me define what is bad business. Bad business consists of companies who do their best to create software libraries and intellectual property manifests with the sole purpose of maybe, possibly, making money. That information is sealed and protected so that in order to get at it, you have to pay someone for it.

    This is based on the idea that companies have make something tangible to make money. Proprietary software is tangible enough to make money from the masses because they often buy it as tangible.

    Big businesses build up this repetoire of "intellectual property" and sit on it for years. It's okay to benefit from a good idea, but copywrite laws these days take it too far. Copywritable material now has an age of 90 years, it used to be 20! Current copywrite laws therefore allow companies like disney to sit on their repetoire and continue to make money off it and don't encourage them to make new material. These businesses are not sensitive to consumer wants and needs, and stifle competition because having huge amounts of Intellectual property that no one else can ever touch is an unfair competitive advantage.

    Customers who use GPL are forced to be more creative, because everyone has access to the same software! Consumers win because companies have to be more competitive. Microsoft can sit on their ass right now and say "You want an office package? Great, here's our package for $600 a person. What, you don't want to pay that price? Lick my ass n00b, you can't do shit without my software, we 0wnz j00r ass!"

    Here's another way to look at it. Before the internet, most networks were proprietary. Closed off and not communicating with each other. Companies had their own networks, colleges has theirs, and some of them even tried to create VANs (value added networks) to perform EDI (electronic data interchange). Most of those attempts were novel but they sucked. When the internet came out, everyone was suddenly connected. Now EDI is easy, because as long as your computer is on the internet, I can build something that communicates with you seamlessly.

    I believe I once read in an article that innovation is increased when you unbundle functions of a system. For example, if IBM owned the internet, and you had to pay a fee to use it, this would stifle innovation because not everyone would be able to or want to pay the fee. Think about the internet vs phone networks. Phone networks have features like call waiting and call blocking and voice mail and caller ID. However, phone networks can only be used for phone calls (without DSL of course). The internet is simply build on a protocol of information transfer from point a to point b, but it has unlimited uses. You can take phone calls over the internet now, and not use the phone network at all. what's even greater is that if you have 5 ISPs to chose from, you can take your VoIP to any of those ISPs and use it seamlessly, because each ISP implements a standard internet connection. They compete on service!

    I'm getting off topic but it all has to do with competition. Competition has been lacking in the last several decades, because people think it's okay for big companies to hold big power. The GPL is simply taking current overly controlling law and turning it against itself by guarenteeing that information released under it is free.

    --

    "All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"