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MS: Beta Software Good Enough for Production Use

RMX writes "CNet is reporting that Microsoft is starting to license test software for real-world use . In particular, Visual Studio 2005 and the April "community technology preview" of SQL Server 2005 are both supposed to be released sometime in the second half of the year. But Microsoft is claiming the pre-release versions are stable already, so they're licensing the pre-released versions on the grounds that they 'are already suitable for running production business applications.'"

22 of 411 comments (clear)

  1. Accountability by fembots · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Didn't Google start all this?

    The main thing is, if something breaks, the company just puts its hands up and says "opps, sorry it's a Beta", and I bet there will still be plenty of users (businesses) who are willing try them.

    In addition to the accountability shift, companies can roll out patches in a more timely fashion. With beta-security-patch, MS is free to distribute patches to plug holes even on a daily basis.

    1. Re:Accountability by bmw · · Score: 3, Insightful

      At least Google's beta stuff actually *works*

      You can't even say that about Microsoft's production software let alone beta software.

    2. Re:Accountability by NeoSkandranon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      if something breaks, the company just puts its hands up and says "opps, sorry..."

      Doesn't Microsoft (and indeed most software comapnies) do that with *all* their products?

      --
      If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
    3. Re:Accountability by RevDobbs · · Score: 4, Insightful

      My first reaction was "I think what Bill G is really saying is 'our realeses suck ass anyway, just buck up and pay to be a beta tester'." But after readting the article:

      ...Microsoft will release updates every six to eight weeks until the product is finished, said Tom Rizzo, director of product management for SQL Server.

      ...Because of the change in the license and the quality of the code, Microsoft expects 50,000 customers to move production applications onto the beta versions of Visual Studio 2005 and the .Net Framework, the software needed to run applications.

      Oh, I get it... five years ago every body signed annual licence contracts, paid out the whazoo to get the next version 'free', but the next versions never came out. So now we have a new license where you get to spend a lot of money, and this time you really really will get some updates!

    4. Re:Accountability by ergo98 · · Score: 5, Insightful
      The difference is that Google isn't selling license of it's beta products.

      Where, exactly, is Microsoft selling licenses?

      This sort of story should have been declined by the editors because it is exactly what makes Slashdot bad- It's a bunch of inflammatory pseudo-facts taken out of context and incorrectly presented to get the anti-M$ minions riles up so they can spread the FUD far and wide.

      In reality Microsoft heavily discourages use of the beta software for production, but they realize that that...

      1. A lot of customers really like the new features, and for that internal site they're will to take the stability hit if it lets them use master pages and some of the other new features. For many firms the stability and API insecurity is worth the risk. We're all professionals, right?
      2. Those customers were going to do it anyway


      Due to this, they make you agree to a Go Live License that makes very sure that you realize that you're working with a beta, and presumably that you've tested your product thoroughly to ensure it meets the stability and security requirements for your product - it's your responsibility.

      One other note - I realize I'm not going to convince anyone in this crowd, however Microsoft's beta 2 products have been of remarkably high quality over the past several years. I'm sure I'll get the standard don't-threaten-my-illusion troll mods, however VS.Net 2005 beta 2 has a stability and quality level equalling or surpassing most or all of its competitors, on any platform.
    5. Re:Accountability by coopex · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I heartly agree. Windows 3.11 was pretty crappy, and 95/98 weren't that much better, but since switching to an NT core for 2000 and XP I've had absolutely no complaints with their OSs. Even using badly written software that doesn't properly deallocate memory, and generally running far too many programs at one, I consistently get uptimes of over a week, which is more than enough for anyone not running a server or doing some heavy duty computations.

      --
      The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
    6. Re:Accountability by svoid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I have been using VS 2005 beta 2 for my day to day work for about a month now. It is functional, but I crash half a dozen times a day. There particularly seems to be problems with the code parsing in header files. I've noticed that if I start a method definition and stop midway through the line of code, after a second or so the parser will come alive, choke and die. I'm tempted to send the crash report to microsoft, because I believe in being an active beta participant, but I'm not really comfortable sending dumps of all of my open file buffers to Microsoft. I guess that the moral of the story is that unless you get some perverse thrill out of using bleeding edge pre-release software (like I do), then No, this software is not really ready for production use.

      There are some very nice improvements in the new version though. One of my favorites is the visibility of data in the debugger. When you hover over a variable in the debugger, the popup tooltip is now interactive so that you can drill into structures or popup memory windows directly from the tooltip without have to add a watch variable.

  2. spyware beta by towaz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I wish they would just hurry up and push windows antispyware down with windows update. I know its not the best out; but it would stop 90% of support calls because some idiot has a pr0n dialer.

    --
    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire
  3. I agree... by bogaboga · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Just look at Google's email service (still in beta). It works like a charm. The same applied to Adobe's Linux PDF reader...even the [Linux] kernel itself, in most cases works, without any serious problems.

  4. This should read... by TedTschopp · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Well, normally in the past we would have released it by now, but becuase you are always complaining about security, the piece of crap is caught in a security review, and marketing is getting worried that we won't ship on time. So here have at it, and we told you so.

    Ted

    --
    Fantasy remains a human right; we make in our measure and in our derivative mode... -- JRR Tolkien
  5. Re:Google too by cd_serek · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think that pretty much goes for every software in development. The BETA is only a phase of programming. And it is not clearly defined. IMHO, all softwares remains in beta stages until they are abandoned. This is because bug-fixing and feature-adding are on-going processes, and are never fully completed.

  6. Well, before we get a little crazy here... by ndykman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Basically, Microsoft is allowing customers, if they so choose, to develop production systems using the beta software. If they want to, and you think it's a good idea, insert usual don't come crying to us if your computer exploded boilerplate here.

    The difference is that Microsoft hasn't usually allowed beta software to be used in production usage at all. They only licensed it for test usage, which, frankly, I'm sure most people were just fine with.

    So, Microsoft is saying, well, heck, if you really want to, sign this piece paper (see disclamier list, etc, etc.) and enjoy.

    I'd be surprised if this really had any impact, but it's interesting marketing.

  7. How much do it cost? by ShaniaTwain · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Did you pay for any of them there google betas? cause I sure didn't, and if you did some varmint mighta ripped you off.

    I also reckon you might want your database a tad bit more stable than you want your nifty little search engine doo-dad.

    1. Re:How much do it cost? by RonnyJ · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Did you pay for any of them there google betas?

      I don't think the price is the issue - people do have a choice not to buy/sign-up for a beta product.

      It's up to the consumer if they want to risk using a beta product (and thousands of people choose to 'risk' their e-mail with the GMail beta).

    2. Re:How much do it cost? by mingot · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Um, and the betas for VS.NET 2005 are also free (as in gratis). The only thing that has changed here is that MS is actually telling developers they can release software written with the beta versions in production environments.

      Now I can't understand why anyone would actually WANT to do this, but all they did was give people the option.

  8. Re:Heh. Not a good idea... by bmw · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Their language products have been pretty decent of late.

    Perhaps. I'm willing to give you that... but a SQL server? Yikes. I think I'll hold off for the final release... and then a round or two of patches, just to be safe ;-)

  9. Read your EULA: by Truth_Quark · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Microsoft has never accepted any accountablilty.


    And never will. Imagine the liability if they accepted responsibility for the work lost to a crash, or time spent finding a work-around for their bugs?


    It's make 5 million euros a day look postively mild!

  10. Re:Heh. Not a good idea... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why is a Microsoft beta less credible than open source 0.87 alpha 'releases', which tend to find their way into many a Linux distribution.??? ;-)

  11. Its just fine by Grip3n · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I like Microsoft as much as most people here, but this move doesn't really make me think "oooOOoo...so evil". Look at the Linux world! So much out there is plainly Beta, but we all still use it. How many of us were using Firefox when it was still in Beta? How about any other program? There are tons out there, I would assume half my linux box is all beta =)

    So why is it so terrible when Microsoft mimics Linux? They realize that some people are willing to take the risks, so why not let them? It increases the testing base, people are happy, if something blew up they knew the consequences. Really there's not too much of a downside to this, as any linux developer will attest.

    I won't be part of any MS bashing on this move.

    --
    To make a pun demonstrates the highest understanding of a language
  12. Microsoft Business Plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful
    1. Release Beta quality Software
    2. Get people to Pay You to do their QA for them - ON PRODUCTION SYSTEMS !!!
    3. Profit!

    Don't mod me as funny, because this joke microsoft's pulling on its customers is not funny at all.

  13. Re:Heh. Not a good idea... by mingot · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm not bill g and don't work at microsoft, but I'll wager my left testicle that the backlash from them breaking *every* vb app with a service pack or security update would be so violent and sudden that it simply won't happen. You have (or you may) no idea about the sheer volume of legacy custom code floating around out there that was written in VB. The idea that they would actually break all of that is nothing but the wet dream of a thousand open source zealots wanting to chirp "I told you so" over and over. Ain't gonna happen.

  14. gmail by Mr.+Underbridge · · Score: 5, Insightful
    It's up to the consumer if they want to risk using a beta product (and thousands of people choose to 'risk' their e-mail with the GMail beta).

    In all fairness, the only thing still "beta" about gmail is its business model.