Slashdot Mirror
Human Hibernation on the Horizon?
Mincemeat.net writes "The BBC is reporting that scientists at University of Washington have successfully induced a state of extreme hibernation in mice. The mice suffered no ill effects. Naturally, testing in larger animals will ensue. Humans wouldn't necessarily appreciate the smell of hydrogen sulfide while being placed into suspended animation. However, the applications are numerous if the usage of similar techniques can be applied to us. Cancer treatment, delaying death from injuries, interplanetary expeditions top the lists of possibilities. While it's not a quick freeze, maybe Fry will be able to meet Bender after all."
...an instant coast-to-coast flight.... "Fifth Element" is coming true. :)
-Palal
Now that they've got that done, they can work on getting people to function on less sleep. I want to be a microsleeper.
I'm up for a little hibernation for space travel, but for medical aid? Aren't we already saving too many people who should be dead and thereby contributing greatly to world problems like overcrowding and world hunger and fun stuff?
Remember, open source is free as in speech, not free as in bear.
Being deaf to the colon trumpet is not enough.
The gases used here sound louder.
The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
And what strikes me right off (because of my field) is, if a 'hibernation' state can be easily and mobily achieved, you could save a LOT of critical cases by slowing them down right at the point of injury or on the ambulance, maybe even before moving them. That would have a definite positive benefit for sure, though thinking about flying through space in slo-mo is a cool vision too, for sure. =)
-chitlenz
Imagination is the silver lining of Intelligence.
I thought the person who survived Rabies went through some sort of similar hibernation; where they deliberatelly slowed down and cooled her body (or at least her brain) until she built up an imune system?
The article and research paper note that they placed the mice in the hibernation state for six hours, without any long-term effects. Unfortunately, I can't find in either the article or paper if they tried longer hibernation periods. If they haven't, I suppose that's the next logical thing to try. Looking at their figures, it seems that the 6 hour mark is about when the body temperature finally finishes asymptoting down to the ambient temperature.
Anyways, here's the research abstract from Science:
H2S Induces a Suspended Animation-Like State in Mice
Eric Blackstone, Mike Morrison, Mark B. Roth
Mammals normally maintain their core body temperature (CBT) despite changes in environmental temperature. Exceptions to this norm include suspended animation-like states such as hibernation, torpor, and estivation. These states are all characterized by marked decreases in metabolic rate, followed by a loss of homeothermic control in which the animal's CBT approaches that of the environment. We report that hydrogen sulfide can induce a suspended animation-like state in a nonhibernating species, the house mouse (Mus musculus). This state is readily reversible and does not appear to harm the animal. This suggests the possibility of inducing suspended animation-like states for medical applications.
It can slow the metabolic rate alright, but does it really slow the aging of cells. If it does not do that, it cannot be of much use in space travel. Because there we measure distances in light-years and it will take several years to reach an exosolar object.
From eating you alive? Metabolism is down to 10% of normal conditions and almost all of our enzymes have an optimum around 310 K (37 Degrees C). Immune cells won't be very active in hibernation (282 K, 11 degrees C), while some microorganisms flourish at that temperature. Just put a piece of cheese in your fridge, wait two months and take a look to see what the effects can be.
Actually there's probably already a couple of billion of them on your skin and completely sterilizing a human being (alive) is long from possible. Six hours of hibernation is one thing, but I wouldn't want to try this for more than a day.
According to one of the articles I read, the researcher actually got the idea to use that molecule from a documentary about caving.
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
My main concern about "hibernation" as you call it, is what happens to your body in between. Your muscles get weaker (since you dont use em), and there is the matter of your body excrements (solids, liquids).
:)
I dont suppose that beeing in suspended animation would mean you could get up and go to the bathroom every day or so. Could be a pain if an application would be "interstellar space journeys".
Besides, we all know where we'll end up if we start playing with hibernation, all we're doing is setting up the technology for the matrix.
Red pill for me, thank you.
Our penal system is based on the "Penetentiary" concept developed by the Quakers. Basically, sitting in a room, unable to leave, and deprived of your senses gives you time to think about your crimes. It also turned out to be a reasonably heinous form of psychological torture.
So around the 1960s they watered down the Penetentiary concept, and we got what is more or less the modern "Convict Warehouse". Fitting as many bodies as possible into a confined space without them killing each other.
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
Its corrosive property is particularly nasty. Here's what happens to a copper seal in a H2S gas line over time. The inner part of the seal has been in contact with H2S and as you can see it's just flaking away. Aluminum, plastic or synthetic rubber seals don't do much better and a leak in a H2S line will definitely ruin your day...
The owls are not what they seem
Mice are also much smaller than humans (yes a statement of the obvious) and so their thermal mass is much slower - i.e. they cool down MUCH faster due to their increased surface area to mass ratio. I'll try to not become too enthusiastic until I see some larger animal studies - preferrably on cats (not dogs please - I like them) or also on a few of the weird looking guys who hang out at the gas station by my house.
..........FULL STOP.
The trouble is, not all criminals care about what they've done. Some of them just don't feel pity or remorse.
CS Lewis argued against a purely penetentiary model of justice on the grounds that it would lead to disproportionate punishment. If we discount punishment as a motive for putting people in jail, then the only reason to send people to jail is to reform them and protect the public. This means that instead of sending people to jail for a fixed time that matches how much punishment the criminal deserves, it is more logical to imprison people until they see the error of their ways and are deemed safe to release. But in some cases this could take a very long time, and there are some criminals who will never be reformed.
Are we really willing to put people in jail indefinitely? It was proposed here in the UK that "psycopathic" criminals who were judged a permanent danger could be subject to open-ended detention. This met widespread opposition from people who, I assume, feel that jail sentences should fit the crime (ie, they believe in just and proportionate punishment, rather than simply the necessary evil of reformative incarceration).
As another Slashdotter once put it, imagine if someone was in jail for sharing MP3s online. Should they stay there until they can convince the parole board that they're sorry and won't do it again, even if that takes years? I would say that the punishment for copyright infringement should be proportionate to the harm it causes. Those who make illegal copies should only be punished as much as their crime deserves to be punished. Under a purely penetentiary regime, the whole question of punishment and how much a person deserves to be punished is irrelevant.
Reforming criminals is a vital part of the justice system, but I wouldn't like a society where it was the only part. I don't believe in insanely heavy penalties for file sharing. Likewise I would be angered if a murderer got off with a light sentence on the grounds that he was unlikely to do it again.
This covers most murdered - the recidivism rate is low.
What we need (for lesser crimes) are expanded community sentences. Banging up a file sharer, say, where they can become a drug addict and learn to break into houses effectively doesn't really help. Community sentences need not be a soft option and could actually do something useful - there are a lot of tasks like cleaning, repainting public buildings and the like that could be done by people on community services for no more than the £300 it day it costs to put someone in prison, and could be hard, reforming work to boot.
How about a religion of sorts for the wise. they sleep and tend-one-another in turns. The membership can be self-supporting with replacments chosen by the group by invitation.
every x years, a 'class is awoken', it is shown an explination of the last y years developments by the previous class (the previous class is then put into hibernation for a spell).
each class digests and reflects on humanities progress, problems etc. and issues reports, runs for offices, give grants etc etc etc.
right now, our insect-like-lifespans cause chaos. there is no incentive to plan long term, there is no incentive to build real solutions to real long-present problems.
maybe if we all lived longer (or my flight-of-fancy "Cult of the Wise") we would stop thinking about our personal pleasure more and start to think about how to gaurantee pleasure for all... and taking reward in eliminating war, famine, global-pollution etc etc.
or, we could fly off to other planets - hell i dont know.
I mean since mice can't talk how do they know how this affects their memories? The normal human brain cannot go without oxygen for 5 minutes, and while oxygen wouldn't be completely cut off from the brain, it would still be greatly reduced. I wonder if this would send the brain into a "skeleton system" type of environment where it keeps on only the bare essentials to survive and therefore shuts out memories. Humans breathe roughly 12 - 20 times per minute, if we apply the rate change of the mouse (1/12 it's normal rate) then humans would be breathing between 1 and 1.5 times a minute. I wonder if this would be enough oxygen for the brain to retain everything that it needs so when the person wakes up they can still perfrom their lives and jobs.
The Technomancer
"Men of lofty genius when they are doing the least work are most active."-
One thing that they never explained was how the got the heads in jars of people who died long before the technology was developed, like George Washington and Thomas Jefferson. Yeah, I know. It's a cartoon. I shouldn't take it too seriously, but even a funny explanation would do.
Technoli
That is a solid reaming.
I get a cheque from my wife on thursday and deposit it that morning, and withdraw funds from that account. the cheque is funded by a paycheque that isn't actually present in the chequeing account until 12:01am friday.. I'm always amazed it works and they don't whine about it.
You should try taking your story to a local newspaper. Convince some journalist to write a good story about how this could screw over a single mom struggling to pay for milk even when she meticulously watches her spending!
That would also be good for security. Pretty hard to hijack a plane if you are hibernating. There would not even need to be access from the passenger area to the cockpit. There wouldn't even need to be any way for communication between the passenger area and the cockpit, so even if a terrorist was able to get on and wake from hibernation, they wouldn't be able to make any threats to take control of the plane.
Energy consumption.
It's a moot point unless an alternative to our dependance on fossil fuels is found. Starvation will quickly solve the popluation problem in short order.
It's all about energy. If you have energy, nothing is a problem - period. If you don't have energy, EVERYTHING is a problem. We're past the point where a retreat to an agrarian life is possible without bloody revolution.
The only answer is new energy technologies - efficient fusion, improved fission, better solar, clean burning coal extraction and liquification, etc etc etc.
..don't panic
The uses are almost endless. Anyone can build a home H2S chamber and just shut themselves down for days at a time. I can envision a time when people are freed of the need to wait for anything. Spiderman 7 coming out in 15 days and you just can't wait? Hop in the chamber, dial it up for 14 days and 23 hours, and just "chill out".
The cool thing is that since metabolic activity cease, your cells would stop dividing, and therefore the aging process would cease as well. Opportunistic viruses would not multiply since they require cellular mitosis, and most bacteria would also take a nap.
I would, however, worry about anaerobic bacteria, especially the kind that thrive on sulfur gases; they'd literally eat you for lunch while you were out like a light. If even one of those suckers got inside, then when someone opened your chamber six months from now you'd be pretty much a skeleton with a mass of oozing, smelly residues--ewwwww!
I would also wonder about undigested food sitting in your stomach and small intestine for days or months, not to mention feces still in the colon. You want to move that stuff through before you shut down the system. On second thought I think I'll wait before trying this one out.
it's = "it is"; its = possessive. E.g., it's flapping its wings.
After four years of daily exposure to HS during my time as a ammo "loader" in an Army artillery battery, my sense of smell is almost entirely gone. I can't smell anything noxious at all, and have to carefully control the conditions in order to be able pick up smells like perfume or coffee. So IMHO the olfactory nerve thing is very real.. Wish i could have hibernated through my foru years in the Army though...
No longer use my nose
The kittens run away from me and hide
Weird things between my toes
And people often think something has died.
I climb a lonely hill
On the Boulevard of Bad Hygiene
I frighten CowboyNeal
But he could learn to love it if he tried.
Something has died? Something has died.
Something has died? Something has...
My B.O.'s the only thing that walks beside me.
My B.O. makes strong men think of suiciding.
My Odor kills the flowers and the pine trees.
Smells like, something has died.
Arrgh ack, Arrgh ack, Arrgh ack, *Cough* *Cough*
Arrgh ack, Arrgh ack, Arrgh ack.
I'm walking down the line
diners flee the buffet so that's fine
so I can take my time
And eat onions, cabbage and... *sniff* something has died.
I can shower, fine.
Or I could on go slashdot tonight.
Closed window, pull the blinds.
But the neighbours think something has died.
Something has died? Something has died.
Something has died? Something has...
My B.O.'s clings to surfaces behind me
My B.O.'s beyond a mortal understanding
Sometimes they wish someone would put me in a... um...
Plastic bag, something has died.
Arrgh ack, Arrgh ack, Arrgh ack, *Cough* *Cough*
Arrgh ack, Arrgh ack, Arrgh ack.
Something has died? Something has...
I walk this empty street
On the Boulevard of Bad Hygiene
City evacuates
in it's pants and something has died.
My B.O. is worse than a Bush e-con-omy.
My B.O. gets UN weapons inspectors antsy.
My Odor could be casus beli if they could find me.
I think, Something has died.
from amiright.com