Slashdot Mirror
Fortress: The Successor to Fortran?
An anonymous reader writes "A draft specification of the Fortress language was recently released. Developed by Sun Microsystems as part of a DARPA-funded supercomputing initiative, Fortress is intended to be a successor to Fortran. Guy Steele, a co-author of Java and member of the Fortress development team, hopes that Fortress will to 'do for Fortran what Java did for C.' Steele admits that Java isn't probably the best choice for numerical computing, and that 'it's a mistake to try to make a programming language that is all things to all people... because the needs are so diverse.' Fortress has a number of interesting features, including support for Unicode characters in code, enabling code to look more like formal mathematical expressions. More information about Fortress is given in interview with Steele, and in a talk by Steele. There's also some interesting commentary on Fortress, including some commentary by a member of the Fortress development team, in response to two stories at the programming languages weblog Lambda the Ultimate."
Hardly. In fact, as I read the introductory sections of the spec, I found a lot of it was exactly the ideas I would have designed into a language myself, as someone who writes mathematical code for a living.
I took a bit of a sideswipe at the whitespace rules in a post below, but aside from those (which I think will die long before the final language is released, "natural" notation or not) a lot of the features look good. Things like first order functions and multiple dispatch suggest much stronger handling of functions than any mainstream language today, which is always good for a language that's going to talk about maths seriously. The consideration given to issues of parallel processing is also well beyond anything else in common usage at present, and that's surely one of the key directions serious programming languages are going to go in over the next decade as hardware becomes more and more about multi-processing rather than just Bigger And Faster(TM).
I must admit, though, that I did start to get bogged down towards the end of the section on the basics, and found it difficult to get stuck into the more advanced stuff at all, even with my CS language theory hat on.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
I wouldn't call Fortan the worst programming language ever; COBOL takes the cake (all of those long words for everything, geez!). It's actually still used heavily in scientific computing, and even though it started out like something that looks like the monostrities of COBOL and BASIC (such as goto statements everywhere, forced indentation, verbosity, and other stuff), the lastest standards of Fortran look decent and have a lot of features that languages such as C has and looks like it has became a much better language. For example, Fortran now supports dynamic memory allocation, structure (such as if...else statements and looping), recursion, arrays, operator overloading, records, and more. The features of the language aren't bad.
Fortran's niche is in scientific computing and numerical computing, since not too many languages come close. It's not the best language for every application, but it works well for scientists and mathematicians.
As far as I understand it, it is due to the inability of a compiler to optimise execution flow where pointers are involved.
With C etc. you cannot know at compile time how much space the data referred to by a pointer will consume, or what it will be. This makes optimising certain routines w/regard to data alignment and packing difficult or impossible compared to FORTRAN.
Various mathematical routines run a hell of a lot faster under FORTRAN than they do under C becauase the FORTRAN compiler knows ahead of time exactly 'what it is getting', and can thus make a decision as to how to feed that data to the CPU to take advantage of its register, cache and instruction scheduling characteristics but sacrifices the flexibility of the 'data structure languages' like C.
Implementing complex, dynamic structures of arbitary 'objects' is childs play with C but something that would drive you batsh*t crazy using FORTRAN.
I gots ta ding a ding dang my dang a long ling long
Having only this information, the compiler has no way of knowing that 'a' and 'b' do or do not point to the same piece of memory, and thus it cannot optimize this loop (as b might point to a-1 for instance). In Fortran the compiler does have this information and can optimize accordingly. Note that this is only a problem with C, not with Pascal. Pascal can in principle run as fast as Fortran, but is probably even more annoying.
Interestingly enough, C++ should be able to reach Fortran speeds when the C++ compiler writers would finally use the leanage they've gotten for optimizing the hell out of 'valarray'. This class doesn't have aliasing problems and can be used in the same way as Fortran arrays.
For the rest, the freaks and weenies have simply been brought up with Fortran and therefore prefer it.
For C this is true, but C++ has gained alot of ground on Fortran through the use of templates and template metaprogramming.
Blitz++ performs very close to or better than Fortran on many numerical calculations.
- These characters were randomly selected.
I know java and use it where it's approiate but I can't understand why people think it's such an amazing language. I understand it's merits but it's still a normal programming language.
There are many reasons why Java is an important programming language. (1) It is probably the first really mainstream general-purpose widely-used language with garbage collection. (2) It was specifically designed for safety at the start, with things like exception handling, bytecode validation and security managers. (3) It is the first mainstream language to run mostly on a VM, so you get portability not just at the source code level, but at the level of compiled programs. (4) It was designed from the start to handle multiple threads safely.
Java is certainly not the most exciting language for developers to use, but that is not its point. Java is not a language of clever tricks and obscure code, like C++ can be. However, it is a very practical language that has learned from many of the mistakes of earlier designs.
If you have been developing for decades like me, switching to Java and finding the ability to write a program, compile it and then decide where it should be deployed (and have this work almost perfectly most of the time) is pretty amazing.
There are also reasons why Java its over-hyped:
(1) You give up speed for a marginal increase in features. (1b) If speed is not a factor, languages such as OCaml have many more features suitable for high-level programming. OCaml is also slightly faster than Java in general. Thus Java is both more primitive and slower than a language that came out in a similar time frame.
(2) You give up source portability for binary portability. Almost every platform has an ansi-C compiler, yet only a handful support Java, especially if you use a recent library. There are more platforms that support OpenGL than Java3D, for example.
(3) A company controls your language. The future of Java is at the whim of a single for-profit entity. Furthermore, this entity has displayed that it wants to control the Java language and the Java platform to the greatest extent possible.
(4) It's one of the most difficult languages to interface with C, and it pushes 100% of the glue required to the native language. It is easier to interface Lisp and Haskell with C than Java to C through JNI. Given the large difference between the former pairs, and the small differences between the latter pair, this is pretty ironic.