Slashdot Mirror


Distributed Computing For Businesses?

Meostro asks: "I've run several distributed computing clients in the past, and it felt nice to contribute to these projects that are saving the world. I recently became the admin of my company's branch datacenter, so my access to computing power has gone from 4 assorted boxes up to 20 servers and around 400 desktops. My ambition has grown by equal bounds, so I want to do some distributed processing on at least a few of these. We do food warehousing and distribution, so there's no protein folding, DSP or weather modelling work that would significantly contribute to our business. I've done some simple work with optimizing routes for our trucks, but our business doesn't seem to present many other problems that require lots of processing. What are some good business-specific tasks you have used distributed or grid computing to work through?"

28 comments

  1. Date modeling. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Imagine the possibilities. . .

  2. Use your freaking head.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Look, I understand your impulse -- I really do. But you've been given a responsibility so put your energy into carrying it out as fully as possible. You're supposed to be contributing to your employer's business, not digging around in a new box of toys and introducing new points of failure.

  3. Hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, they must need the processing power for something. After all they didn't buy 20 servers and 400 workstations just to look cool. Maybe they need the processing power for suff like groupware, inventory control, accounting, human resources and general "work stuff".

    While these functions may not require grid computing per se, they do require a fair bit of modern computing power. Perhaps you should forgo the grid computing and use the right tool for the job at hand.

    By the way, it seems that you don't have enough to do at your new job. Perhaps you should ask your boss what would be the best way to allocate company computing resources and your leet admin skillz. I'm sure he wouldn't have thought of Slashdot.

    1. Re:Hmm by Meostro · · Score: 1
      Well, they must need the processing power for something. After all they didn't buy 20 servers and 400 workstations just to look cool. Maybe they need the processing power for suff like groupware, inventory control, accounting, human resources and general "work stuff".
      For a desktop box though, how much processing time do you use in a day? I don't know the equivalent for Linux (maybe uptime?), but check task manager if you run Windows.

      For my desktop PC, even when I was doing a LOT of Access database work (as opposed to a dedicated db where it has its own server), I was running at about 7 hours of idle processing time in a 9-hour day. There are maybe 10 people in the company that actually use their computers to the fullest, everyone else runs e-mail, Excel and a mainframe client.

      Servers are mostly in the same boat, although we don't have nearly as much overkill for them as we do for desktops. The specs for most of our apps require a dedicated server with the appropriate redundant hardware, so even if there are only four people that run on our contract management server, we must have separate, dedicated hardware for them. As of Q4 last year we started running VMWare virtual servers to consolidate that somewhat, but for the time being we have more horsepower than we could use in a decade.
      By the way, it seems that you don't have enough to do at your new job. Perhaps you should ask your boss what would be the best way to allocate company computing resources and your leet admin skillz. I'm sure he wouldn't have thought of Slashdot.
      I have enough to do that I can't comment on /. at 4:16PM EDT, I have to wait until I'm done at 7:30.
  4. Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You could just do what the rest of admins with too much processing power do - benchmark the re-encoding process of whatever the latest movie thats out.



    Although there are various other worthless projects that you could do instead (e.g. S.E.T.I), as you mentioned there are a lot off good projects you could contribute too as well..



    How much publcity would your company get if you discovered a full/partial cure for cancer? I doub't they'f fire you for doing something as significat as than (or even firing you for using up CPU time to try and cure something like that). -- btw i'm a cancer veteran.

    1. Re:Well... by Meostro · · Score: 1

      It would be great to do charity computing, but that idea has already been nix'd. I had that in my original posting, but it got edited out before the final submission:

      I asked about charitable computing and that was shot down. "They" did say that a project that would contribute directly to the business (read: contribute MONEY) would be allowed, as long as some minor points were addressed.

    2. Re:Well... by unitron · · Score: 1

      Did you explore the question of whether or not your company could have taken a tax write-off for that charitable contribution?

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

  5. Don't go overboard by Kaamoss · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It's silly to waste time optimizing something that dosn't require it. If there is no need you can think of for using distributed processing why bother? The key is simplicity. Robustness stems from simplicity. The more unneccesary things you add to the system, the more break points you have. Do you really want to spend all day trouble shooting a problem which is cause by something that's not needed in the first place? If you feel the need to waste time read slashdot and maybe do some coding.

  6. Business specific task by bherman · · Score: 2, Funny

    What are some good business-specific tasks you have used distributed or grid computing to work through?
    I put our servers to work to find out what the most optimized route would be for me to take to sneak out of work early.

    The only problem was there seemed to be some "quirk" in the software that kept suggesting to walk by the bosses door.

    Once I get that fixed, I'll be on easy street.

    --
    Error: Sig not found.
  7. Patience, grasshopper... by Roadkills-R-Us · · Score: 2, Insightful

    On the 1 hand I agree with the above poster.

    On the other hand, there may be something that fits your bill. But if you don't see it yet, just wait, get to know the business better, and keep your eye on all requirements documents, purchase requests, and so forth. Listen in on gripe and bluesky sessions. If it's coming, and you're plugged in and paying attention, you'll recognize the opportunity when it arrives.

  8. Rendering cluster by dtfinch · · Score: 1

    We had turned our office into one of those for a while. Imagine 100 frame 3D views of hundreds of products.

  9. Not free by Jerf · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Distributed computing is not free.

    Compute the power costs of what you are proposing.

    Knowingly wasting that sort of money is often a firing offense; at the scales you quote, we're easily talking hundreds a month and it may well exceed your personal salary. Not a great way to ensure you have a job tomorrow.

  10. Optimization problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Look for other optimization problems in your organization. Maybe you should be using optimization algorithms to do things like work out what size box or crate to pack orders in, etc. Anything that's complex combinatorially (lots of permutations) might be a candidate for optimization. Scheduling is another area that can create complex problems.

    Some of it just depends on the size of the company though. Even problems that exhibit a "combinatorial explosion" in complexity can be very easy to solve, for very small numbers of inputs.

  11. Looking for a job is a good use of all that power. by bergeron76 · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    I suggest you get started soon. Because once your boss finds out that you're using his computers for trite personal projects, you'll be unemployed.

    Enjoy it while it lasts.

    --
    Don't think that a small group of dedicated individuals can't change the world. It's the only thing that ever has.
  12. distcc? by stevey · · Score: 3, Informative
    What are some good business-specific tasks you have used distributed or grid computing to work through?

    The only time I've used distributed computing for legitimate purposes was using distcc for compiling across multiple machines.

    This only works if you're a software shop though ..

    1. Re:distcc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The only time I've used distributed computing for legitimate purposes was using distcc [samba.org] for compiling across multiple machines.

      This only works if you're a software shop though."

      How does it know that you're a software shop?

  13. Let the user drive the requirements by metoc · · Score: 1

    Let the user drive requirements, and you provide a solution that meets those requirements.

    Sometimes the user doesn't ask to have something solved because they think that it can't be solved, or don't realize it is even possible. Find out by having the IT department ask everyone for their wishlist. Sometimes it is something simple (I want to be able to fax from my desktop apps), and sometimes it is earth shattering (CERN users wanting to share physics experiment data).

  14. Actual suggestions by justanyone · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I have a close friend that is in the food shipping business.

    She's said that her first job was trying to optimize the amount of stock in the warehouse at any given point, given that stock (in this case, frozen potatoes, hash browns, etc.) goes bad if stored too long. Yet, if they don't have supply, they miss out on tremoundous money making opportunities.

    The problems would seem to be (at least with her work, and you can comment about how applicable this is to your situation):
    1. Warehouse supply chain - prediction of needs;
    2. Given several warehouses, where to move stock given disparate and sporadic ordering;
    3. As you mentioned, routing trucks and how much they carry;
    4. tracking unethical short-shipments (where the invoice says they shipped 12 cartons but they only really shipped 11);
    5. tracking ethical short-shipments (where you order 12 and only get 11 and are properly invoiced for 11);
    6. tracking suppliers on-time percentages, trucker's reliabilities, speeds, and costs;
    7. doing predictive modeling of demand cycles given inputs of time of year, price of raw product, going rate (sales price) (and thus profit margin), availability of trucking and rail, etc.

    This kind of stuff is why Walmart is huge (no flames on them being evil here, this is just a comment on their technial prowess in supply chain management). If you want to be successful, keep track of everything and run some queries to see what you could do to improve.

    1. Re:Actual suggestions by Meostro · · Score: 1

      We actually have people that do each of these things.

      1. Our Buyers have to track stock versus demand to keep products on the shelf but only at the minimum level possible, otherwise we're storing more than we need and that extra storage costs us extra money.

      2. Buyers have to do this also, in relation to #1 and supply-versus-demand across multiple markets.

      3. Routing people do this, but they do it manually AFAIK. For this, as for some others on this list, reality becomes a problem.

      Logistically, it makes the most sense to re-optimize your drop schedule every night to account for new customers, larger demand, changes in traffic flow, etc.

      Reality says that Driver A knows these twelve stops and has run the same route for two years, so he/she knows the intricacies of those customers and/or that route.

      4 and 5. AFAIK, these are dealt with on a one-off basis, when they happen someone fixes them. I'm sure there's some global strategy on how these are tracked, but I haven't investigated it.

      6. This is handled by our transportation and operations people. I'd bet hard cash that it isn't tracked as well as it could be, but there have been a lot of incremental process improvements globally since I started working with this company 7 years ago, so we're probably in the top 10-15% of our business in efficiency.

      7. Again, handled by buyers, and again part of the supply-demand problem they face in #1 and #2.

      Overall, every metric referenced on this list can come out of our enterprise data warehouse, so we CAN track all of this. I even think that we DO track most of it, and adjust our business processes accordingly.

      The only downside to this, from my wishful perspective, is that most of these are one-shot deals. I can write the query to give me any of these current metrics along with past performance, then I can process the result set with just my PC in 5 minutes. There's no magic to it.

      (From a user's viewpoint though, this is practically frickin' nirvana!)

  15. More politely by bruciferofbrm · · Score: 1

    To put it the exact same way, but maybe more politely:

    If there isn't a task that depends on massive amounts of computational horsepower, then doing distributed computing is not a goal you should be seeking for your boss.

    (I can't count the number of times I have had to stop my manager from bringing in some new product (or vendor of a product) to buy without having a problem that needs this solution).

    However, that being said: Don't close your mind to possibilities. Understand your companies business better. Think outside the box. Perhaps there actually is something that may not be a problem, yet could benefit from this kind (or some other nifty kind) of solution. Google didn't get where it is today by thinking a single or few big iron boxes were the only answer to the search engine game.

    1. Re:More politely by bruciferofbrm · · Score: 1

      okay.. I have no idea why I said:

      'distributed computing is not a goal you should be seeking for your boss.'

      Terminate that thought at 'seeking'

  16. Try These by Ed+Almos · · Score: 2, Informative

    1) Optimization of goods warehouse layout, use to ensure that the fastest moving stock is the easiest to get at.

    2) Optimization of shipping times. If this is done right then you will get either the slowest trucks or the trucks with the greatest loads out the door first.

    3) Work out the most efficient use of your loading bay(s). If movement space is limited in your loading yard then this could be a problem.

    4) Examine stock levels with reference to as many external factors as you can. If it's always cold in May in your part of the world then you don't want to be stocking up on popsicles. Also, examine stock levels with reference to annual local or international events and festivals.

    5) Report generation (the bean-counters always love their reports). If a report takes thirty minutes to generate on your existing system then consider re-optimizing the code for running on a cluster and see if you can get the time down.

    Ed Almos
    Budapest, Hungary

    --
    The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws. - Tacitus, 56-120 A.D.
    1. Re:Try These by Meostro · · Score: 1

      1. Already done, stock demand sheets are generated daily as FYIs and warehouse is reconfigured as necessary. Don't have to worry about finding slots, stocking and picking lists are generated based on these sheets and on inventory levels. I'm quite proud of the Ops folks on some of this, they use some really clever, simple technology to improve their efficiency by leaps and bounds.

      2. Not sure if this makes a difference, most locations are load overnight, drop overday, repeat ad infinitum. A faster or slower truck would still be cycle-limited.

      3. If movement space is limited then this could be a much bigger benefit, but I think this is done inherently since we can't put 550 cubic feet of stock in a 500 cubic foot trailer, we automatically route it to a bigger truck or split to two trucks, whichever makes more sense.

      4. Done, to some extent. Product Buyers account for seasonal swings in demand (Cinco De Mayo = lots of salsa, Thanksgiving = lots of turkey), but I don't know how specific they are in their forecasting.

      5. This might be the best option for my wandering mind, there are lots of reports that have to be run overnight because they take too long, running on a desktop cluster could make relatively real-time reporting a reality. Really!

      This would be a good one to test, too, since each group would be willing to give up idle time to process their own reports that much quicker. I think we even have a cluster-enabled database license for some other one of our apps, so we have the personnel in-house to support it.

  17. Re:Looking for a job is a good use of all that pow by Meostro · · Score: 1

    Thus the reason that any distributed project must contribute directly to the business. If that weren't the case, SETI would be running on everyone's desktop already because it's a pretty screensaver and it's completely worthless from a business perspective.

  18. You are looking at things the wrong way... by sr180 · · Score: 1
    You have found a solution, and are looking for problems for your solution to solve.

    Try looking for your current problems, and then find some solutions to solve those problems.

    --
    In Soviet Russia the insensitive clod is YOU!
  19. make a business case for it by mqx · · Score: 1


    You need to make this a business case and get buy in from senior people in the company.

    For example, the consequences of the work could get you or the company in big trouble. Constant use of CPU time will perhaps degrade performance of networks and desktop, or reduce the lifetime of computing components (e.g. extra swapping may reduce the life of hard drives on machines you're using), and not only that, cost time (e.g. support problems) and money (e.g. not only power requirements: but offices often don't have aircon enabled over the weekend, and excessive computing use may actually cause some problems with heating up the office).

    On the other hand, if you put your case well, you could indicate how these costs and risks will actually pay back with the problems you're solving. You really do need to demonstrate concrete and business relevant outcomes: and possibly the different options for solving these. For example, the warehouse optimisation problem: why can't it be run on two commodity pc's: even if it is going to take an extra 2 weeks to finish the task, this may be considered safer alternative.

    In summary: assess the problem you're trying to solve, look at it from all the business angles, come up with a proposal that takes into account the other options to give you an objective perspective, and if your case is good, put it forward, and ensure that you get buyin from others in the company: just don't go out and do it yourself alone.

  20. a new twist on an old saw... by biglig2 · · Score: 1

    When there's a sexy new hammer in the tool shop window, every problem looks like a nail.

    --
    ~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
  21. Obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1. Run http://www.informatics.sussex.ac.uk/users/mmg20/dh e/ on all the boxes.
    2. Evolve and use Skynet to run the business.
    3. ?????
    4. Profit!!!