A Parent's Guide to Role Playing Games

hapycamper writes "Role playing games are evaluated from the perspective of a concerned parent in the latest two editions of the GamerDad Unplugged column. The articles discuss some of the finer points of table-top gaming from a parental perspective, with the first article discussing just what an RPG is and the second addressing some of the main concerns that a parent might have about their child playing an RPG." From the article:"So, the most important things a parent should be concerned about in a role playing game are the game players. Who is your child playing with? As mentioned, these types of games come straight out of the imagination of the players, especially the GM..."

Comments

Incomplete and somewhat Uninformed

[Short Circuit]

I clicked on the link, thinking it might be a good read. And it is, but only from the perspective of someone who already knows something about it. The author stares at D&D, only making passing references to other genres, of tabletop RPGs. He alludes to cartoon, superhero and historic genres, but provides no links.

He also suggests historical-based games as a way to avoid exposing children to religious issues. Questions about maturity requirements aside, he apparently never heard of Egyptian or Norse mythology.

The author uses images of D&D books as illustrations for discussion of evil (Book of Vile Darkness) and religion (Dieties and Demigods).

Apparently, he never read Dieties and Demigods, because it's a fascinating source of information for Greek, Norse and Egyptian mythology. I'm not saying it's a definitive source, but it's certainly capable of spurring someone into doing their own research. The stat blocks for the *ahem* dieties and demigods in the book read like essays on the subject, if you're paying attention.

Re:Incomplete and somewhat Uninformed

[Austerity Empowers]

Explaining it's egyption or norse mythology probably would not have helped. Paganism, worshipping idols, even the acceptance of the concept of multiple gods is really not something even more mainstream non-church going concerned parents would want for their kids. They'd really rather see their kids taking up a sport. These parents are the ones asking "Is my kid normal for playing RPGs?", and they're asking because they know NOTHING about it but want to know what their kid is up to. It might scare them to know their child is participating in the worship of some strange egyptian god, even if they have no beliefs of their own. I'd want my child to be as thoroughly agnostic as I am, not a worshipper of Ra. Hell, I'd be happier if he chose a "normal" religion instead of some long dead one that has gone retro for no clear reason. That's my opinion but I think many parents would probably sympathize.

If the author had done a better job of dropping the reality from it, and explained how the various gods etc. made the game more interesting and added depth to this make believe world, then at least some resistant parents would accept it more. Belief in egyption gods is at least as insane as almost any other religion, but in the context of playing a game it can be fun. It's just yet another set of arbitrary rules that modify the game experience, only that by knowing the foundation for the rule it allows players to be more subtle and more creative. The author should give examples.

In chess you are given the rules for how each piece moves (and a few "special" moves that somehow worked in there). Your objective is simple, kill the opponents King. You can do this by, one turn at a time, moving your pieces around the board to trap the opposing players king (while he does exactly the same to you). Surely this is a very complex game, with no guaranteed strategies. But it's a bit arbitrary, and can get dull after a while, and ultimately there are only so many things you can do.

In RPGs you're given situations and objectives that may be more subtle. Maybe it's to kill the guy who killed your teacher, maybe it's to steal a thingamabob, maybe your objective is to craft a perfect piece of armor, etc. Each plan of action must be evaluated against your setting, situation, antagonists and friends. There is right and wrong, and a whole bunch in between. That's more fun. You don't have to REALLY believe in Poseidon to summon rain, but you can appreciate how useful it might be to summon a particularly nasty rain storm against people who use fireballs, or conversely use a certain characters desire to remain strong in that house of magic to also be his undoing. The more you put yourself in your characters place, the better able you are to think outside the box and solve problems creatively. You don't necessarily have predefined "moves", at least not in the better games with better GMs. I obviously have never played D&D but I'm trying to illustrate my point based on other games I did play.

I think that maybe D&D sometimes hit a bit too close to home created a lot of these misconceptions. If it were more obviously made up from nowhere, it might cause less trouble. If the author focused on how the games are played and what their kids are REALLY thinking (in terms of problem solving, meeting objectives, critical thinking), rather than how evil the books look, it would probably go further to helping parents understand healthy gaming, versus unhealthy gaming which I think is what parents NEED. Games, like guns, aren't evil, but the people playing with them might be.

Re:Incomplete and somewhat Uninformed

[zero_offset]

Perhaps parents should discourage their children from learning about the Romans so as to prevent the the little tykes feeding Christians to the lions?

ob: Why on Earth would you want to prevent that???

Hmmm...

[kniLnamiJ-neB]

While I'm glad that parents are checking into this stuff, I'm kinda wondering what's happening to Slashdot. This is the third or fourth article today about "family"-related matters or Christianity in gaming. Considering our usual fare, it seems a bit out of place. Did Taco get overthrown or something?

Re:Hmmm...

[Clomer]

I see two responses to this:

1: Despite how we joke that all slashdotters are pimple-faced nerds living in their parent's basement and have no social life, my guess is that more and more of us actually are getting out, getting married, and raising families. Articles like this do definately apply to the types of games that many of us enjoy, and it's something we can point out to our less-nerdy peers.

2: There are undoubtably a lot of slashdotters that are themselves teenagers, and their parents question their interest in tabletop RPG's. This is a good source that these teens can point their parents to to alleaviate their fears.

I skimmed the article, and I agree that there's not a whole lot in it that is new to many of us, but I think it is a good informational source to a layman.

The REAL Value of RPGs

[iridium_ionizer]

Parents need to understand that RPGs DO teach children real world skills.

Kids that play RPGs understand intuitively that winnning the Lotto is nigh impossible because you would have to roll 1d4 and 7d10 and have them all turn out as 1's.

Kids that play RPGs are better prepared for the workforce because they know what it is like to work together as a team to reach a goal, only to have that goal squashed due to the GM's (aka boss') preconceived notion on how the adventure (aka project) should turn out.

And finally, kids that play RPGs know that you should never open a door, package, or anything else for that matter without first checking for traps.

Re:The REAL Value of RPGs

[Short Circuit]

Love your last one. :) But you missed an important one. Under a good GM, participants learn to work as a team, period.

Picture a group of typical 12-year-olds playing gambling paladins and raucous fighters. Unless they're forced to, they're not going to work as a team to accomplish anything. Under a DM that pushes teamplay for the Big rewards, they get an incentive to do better in that respect.

Heck, I DM'd a D&D game where a 21-year-old player was only happy if he pulled off more stunts and accomplished more objectives than the rest of the player. He bitched whenever I made a mistake, complained whenever something he wanted to do would have required a called shot, and was a general nuisance.

Just to focus on one quote

[CrazyJim1]

"I personally only role play characters who have basically good motivations since I find attempting to role-play a purely self-motivated evil character uncomfortable and emotionally draining. "

This is something that I've been analyzing myself as of late. In the gaming community, its widely accepted that the game isn't real life, so whats the deal with killing innocents, slinging drugs, or torturing? A moral Christian view comes from the idea that what we feel in our hearts matters. There is a differnce between the following GTA players, but not the game:

A:Player just wants to maximize the high score in the game, so he does what the game favors most. If its killing bad guys, or sleeping with a prostitute, then killing her for his money back.

B:Player B is a real life gangsta, and likes a game that grooves with his actual lifestyle.

C:Player C is a wanna be gangsta, and does everything he can to emulate being a real gangsta.(I'm sure you've seen these clowns before). Someday he may actually break into the racket.



Its may be hard to understand this outside of a Christian spiritual context, but you should analyze why you find a game fun. The role you play in a game is something you'd like to experience. If something you like to experience is something thats acting out evil fantasies then you should really consider your desires.

Re:Just to focus on one quote

[SetupWeasel]

If there is one thing that a billion years of evolution has taught us, it's that violence sometimes is the answer.

In general, however, we live in a society that frowns upon the killing of other humans. There are exceptions (we kill plenty of innocent people in Iraq), but in general, you can't do it. The thing is that we still have the instincts. We can suppress them, but we need a release.

It's nice to say that no one should have these urges, but it doesn't help matters to act like good people don't. Kids need a release for their aggression. Some choose sports, some choose games. The important thing is that we have parents that help differentiate the reality from the fantasy.

This is not only true in games like D&D and GTA, but even in sports. So many athletes are bullies, and it is all the same problem.

Re:Just to focus on one quote

[WhatAmIDoingHere]

What about the person who doesn't care about the score, but plays the game for fun? High Score isn't fun for everyone.

Re:Just to focus on one quote

[Txiasaeia]

But constantly dwelling on *real* violence (like that found in Book of Vile Darkness, for example) is definitely a bad thing. Rolling a die and hitting a goblin with your mace is positively tame next to consciously attempting to torture an NPC over the course of a session in order to gain favour with your god, which is... well, quite frankly, disturbing.

Re:Just to focus on one quote

[Short Circuit]

I don't own that book, but I have skimmed it at the bookstore.

It's not really intended for use by players to come up with evil characters, it's intended for use by DMs to come up with convincing villains. Villains constructed from that material will disgust both players and their characters, giving them a goal whose urgency allows the characters to to set aside differences of race, alignment...even religion.

(ROT13 the following text to see an example. But be warned, it's graphic!)

V zrna, qrfpevovat n xvat nf "bccerffvir" naq "ungrq" bayl tbrf fb sne gb pncgher gur cynlref' vzntvangvba. Qrfpevovat ubj n cfvbavpvfg xvat culfvpnyyl naq zragnyyl zhgvyngrf uvf pbaphovarf orsber bofreivat gurz orvat encrq ol qrivyf naq qrzbaf vf tbvat gb eribyg gur cynlref naq punenpgref fb gurl (gur punenpgref) qrqvpngr gurve yvirf gb uvf bireguebj.

Heck...that description will probably revolt some of the people reading this comment.

For campaigns with mature players, such villains are useful and effective. I wouldn't dream of having that kind of villain in a game with kids.

And there's a reason I don't own that book. I find its contents disturbing.

Re:Just to focus on one quote

[Austerity Empowers]

I don't see any point in targetting Christian spiritual contexts as nothing you said doesn't apply Jewish, Muslim, Jedi, Wiccan, Pagan or followers of Humma Kuvala. Most of those, I think, have similar beliefs when it comes to wanton violence. Their followers would say such beliefs come from their various gods (who may or may not ordain certain acts of violence), but really that's just documentation, the belief is simpler than that. Either way I don't think you're right on any point.

You try to draw a parallel between performing bad acts in a video game (where you know no one is really hurt by your deeds), to reflections of what you may want to do in real life where people ARE really hurt by actions a tenth as heinous. You do so based on the concept that only what is in your heart matters, and doing bad things in a game reveals that what is in your heart is bad. I don't think your religion supports you on this.

Humans, like all animals, have enormous capacity for violence, it's a survival skill. (Even Jesus knew this, he lived a short life because of and in opposition to it). It's in there, no matter how deeply you lock it away. If you insist on being new-age Christian about it, see the original sin for confirmation (some Christians think it's impossible for humans NOT to be evil without God's direct influence). The difference is that people we allow to walk around the street know enough to know they cannot do evil to their fellow man.

Society is a collection of individuals who willingly suspend their bloodlust for their own benefit. Put that way it sounds morbid, but most of us realize deep down, that a world where people routinely kill one another for their own profit, will be unpleasant, scary, and doomed. There's always someone bigger, stronger or with more well armed friends. We hide it behind law, God and morality, but ultimately all that matters is NOT in your heart, it's in your actions.

Why do you stop at a red light? Because God said unto man "Thou shalt stop at red lights, or thou shalt be banished to eternal damnation"? I missed that verse. Because Mr. Police Man will give you a ticket? Eh, I've got cash. No you stop because if you don't, you'll likely kill yourself and/or someone else because we have this convention that people go on green and stop at red, and if we all abide, we can get to and fro safely. That's all there is to it. Similarly, if we all refrain from killing each other (except under certain controlled and semi-agreed upon conditions) we can live happier lives. It makes sense to me.

What's in your heart may at times be bad, though, because it is so tempting to do one small bad thing to make your own life better. It's always there, impossible to miss. I say it came from our primitive origins, you may say it came from an apple given to some woman by a serpent, either way we can agree that what's in our hearts is not always altruistic. What will distinguish you from a street thug, however, is not what is in your heart, but what actions you take as a result.

Doing evil in a video game has no consequences and is not wrong. You are not bad for having done evil in a game, because no one could possibly, even in the most contrived scenario, have been hurt in any conceivable way. This is fantasy, and unless you are disturbed, the difference between what you do in make believe versus reality should be very clear.

Re:Just to focus on one quote

[Txiasaeia]

Have you read it? I'm a conservative Christian and have no problem with my kids playing D&D. I *would* have a problem if their DM brought in material from the BOVD.

An RPG

[superpulpsicle]

An RPG is supposed to be a 60hr game. But it's really a 20hr game + 40hr video clips.

Addressing the religious issue

[KingSkippus]

I posted this on the forum at GamerDad as well because I grew up (and played pencil-and-paper RPGs) when all of the hysteria broke out about Dungeons and Dragons, and I don't want to see this kind of silliness again.

Characters can often be some type of priest serving a god who, in turn, provides that character with magical abilities like healing or protection. This could be uncomfortable for some families.

When I was growing up, I played RPGs a lot. My mom was a religious woman, and I knew that she was sometimes uncomfortable with me pretending to worship various deities and casting spells. (Yes, I was one of those who went through the occult motions that my character would.) As a kid, of course, I thought she was just being silly, since I was an active Christian member of my church and never got into any trouble.

The important thing for kids and parents to understand about these games is that they are just that--games. The worlds that gamemasters create are realms of fiction and fantasy. Although a quick spell may help a player's wizard get out of a sticky scrape, kids are smart enough to realize no amount of spellcasting will help them with that history test in fifth period tomorrow. If that is not true, then role-playing games are not the primary issue, and I suggest that you need to get psychological help for your child.

When I played role-playing games, it was for entertainment, nothing more. I also watched horror movies, like A Nightmare on Elm Street, and I was well aware of the difference between Freddy Kruger (the supernatural psychopathic killer) and Robert Englund (the actor that played Freddy). If I had met Robert in person, I would not have run away screaming in fear, I would likely have told him that I loved his movies and asked for an autograph. I also was well aware that there was no such thing as Freddy Kruger, and though I occasionally worried about various bumps in the night, I never was in any real fear of Freddy coming out from under my bed to get me.

Adults engage in this form of escapism as well. In The Passion of the Christ, an actor named Hristo Shopov portrayed Pontius Pilate. The actor, in his role-playing, recited lines to condemn Jesus Christ to death. I surely hope that concerned parents do not seriously have religious issues with Mr. Shopov accepting this role, and I surely hope that parents of children who play role-playing games do not mistake their entertainment as occult rituals.

I suggest that as a parent, it doesn't hurt to remind your child of the distinction between fantasy and reality occasionally, just as you would when explaining that the people on television and in movies are just pretending. But if you prohibit your child from playing role-playing games because of religious reasons, you could very well be creating or contributing to a problem with this distinction because you are assigning real qualities to something that is inherently make-believe.

I agree with Matt, a frank discussion of the issue is probably the best solution. Make sure that it is a real discussion in which the parent keeps a healthy perspective and truly recognizes these games for what they are.

Re:Addressing the religious issue

[jafuser]

I was denied any opportunity to attend RPG nights with the few friends I did have because my parents felt it was some kind of deviant behavior (due to some local news story about satanists playing RPGs or something).

Being a geek, this kinda shut off one of the best socializing opportunities I had. I was often invited to games by people at school, but I always had to turn them down. So I spent most of my younger days entertaining myself with solitary things like computers, electronics, LEGO, etc.

I figure this is probably why I don't socialize well these days, and have quite a difficult time dealing with people in general, even others in the INTx personality genre.

I think this also impeded development of some subconscious social skills that 90% of the population take for granted; for example, I often feel like I have to simulate social behaviors (i.e. consciously having to make eye contact, insert small talk, or interpret body language, etc) instead of them coming naturally to me as they appear to for most others.

I think RPGs are an excellent way to expand your kid's creativity and socializing skills. If I were a parent, I'd strongly encourage this kind of entertainmet, which is probably a lot more constructive than most forms of entertainment that are thrown at kids these days... =P

Slashdotter parents RPG advice: PLAY ALONG!

[Dr. Spork]

Gah, I can't believe nobody has said this yet: If you are here on Slashdot, you probably know quite a bit about roleplaying games. If you're lucky to also have kids who are interested in this sort of thing, you're stupid if you don't take the opportunity to play with them.

Having just restarted an AD&D campaign with other thirty-somethings, I can tell you that we can get more out of this game at our "parenting" age than we could have when we played heavily in high school. This is not one of those parenting duties, it's one of those parenting privilidges. Plus, in this era of personal separation, RPGs seem like the single best way to really connect with people.

I'd rather protect kids from just about anything (video games, exploitative porn, TV, religion, cigarettes, etc.) before I even began to worry about RPG's.

Re:Slashdotter parents RPG advice: PLAY ALONG!

[FLEB]

I'd say that protecting kids "from" RPGs in the same vein as TV, movies, etc., is not just unnecessary, it's downright counterproductive. RPG's even one-up books as a good "intellectual activity".

Not only are gamers learning to read well and use their imagination, they're learning to create their own worlds and problem-solve intellectually against active puzzles. Although I don't know for sure if it's cause, effect, or irrelevant, but the group of long-time gamers I hang out with is leaps and bounds more interesting, witty, and inventive than the general mass of idiotry I know outside. As an intellectual activity for all ages (I say, trying to head off the "Aren't you too old for that?" age.), P&P RPGing is a great pastime. ...

You mentioned D&Ding with your kids, and I remember a conversation with a friend I had a while ago, musing that a greater mass of gamers were coming of child-rearing age, and what great stories we'll have to tell our children. "You know, I threw a car at a guy in this parking lot one time. Right over there. He was trying to mind-blast me, but I ducked out of the way and used my Forces to lift the car, and..." (I'm a real-setting White Wolf fan.)

Re:Tabletop only!

[FLEB]

Wrong type of RPG, if I'm reading Runescape correctly. P&P RPGs are inherently social.

(Although, has anyone noticed that with some hardcore players it can be annoyingly antisocial, in that they're so in-character, you end up never actually talking with the friends you're with, but only to their characters. Maybe I'm not as heavy-duty a gamer, but I like a good mix of in-char and out-of-char during a game... otherwise it ends up as impersonal as an online RPG.)

Religious Nuts Vs D&D Roleplaying Games

[Octel]

When I was growing up in the early 80's I played D&D and military role playing games with my friends, most of whom were in band and were into nerdy things. We even had some 'freaks' who joined with us. Most of the time we would game at my friends house, even without his dad being around; most parents knew this but we never got into any trouble so it was cool. Then a new pastor moved into town and his wife found out about our D&D gaming. Of course, being the uptight, morally-holier-than-thou-type she was, there had to be something done to save us!:( She got all of our parents together for a discussion and started in on the "evils" of this game. My one friends mother stood up and asked her, "so you want them to quit playing this game?! Should we just go out and buy them booze and let them party?" Unfortunately her logic was lost on a few parents and we lost several of our players.:( This didn't stop us though, albeit the preaching continued. Forward to a couple of years later when I was in the USAF stationed at a northern tier base. I brought my D&D and Axis and Allies games with me, but saw a notice posted on our barracks dorm from the ultra-rightwing First Sgt stating that no role playing or dice games allowed! Sensing another zealot trying to control what I did I went to complain to our company commander. During the hearing I stated that since we were in the military wouldn't it be foolish to ban a military game (I left D&D out of it)? And, using the same logic as my friends mom, asked him would it be better if we went downtown to drink and possible get into trouble? He agreed and our group was allowed to enjoy a hobby with my new friends.

Just remember: The Computer Is Your Friend.

[Richard Steiner]

Keep that in mind, and all will be fine.

Short Circuit (52384), I have good news! You have been promoted. Please report to promotion chamber 14 on Level C-H27 immediately. There is absolutely no danger. Failure to report for this scheduled promotion is treason, and is punishable by death.

Be happy! The Computer is your friend.

Are you not happy?