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Charter School Firm Attacks Online Criticism

Posted by timothy on from the so-here's-some-more dept.

Lane writes "News-Press.com reports that 'Charter Schools USA is threatening legal action against parents who use an Internet discussion board to air grievances about Gateway Charter.'" This despite comments which the parents say are based on the public record, and posted anonymously.

23 of 273 comments (clear)

  1. So much for freedom of speech by jnmontario · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Another great example of somebody with expensive lawyers telling (read: threatening) the average person what they can do or think. Yay America.

    1. Re:So much for freedom of speech by karmaflux · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Listen closely: this has nothing to do with freedom of speech.
      Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
      See anything in there mentioning that you're allowed to lie about a company in order to defame it and damage its business?

      Looking at some of the comments on that site, I can see why CSUSA thinks they have a case. Most of the worst posts have now been deleted, but the parents were in there accusing teachers of all kinds of horrible crimes, as well as CSUSA of condoning them.

      If CSUSA takes Reigelman to court and successfully proves that the parents were falsely defaming CSUSA on that website, then it is an open and shut case of libel, which is against the law.

      You're so worried about "freedom of speech" -- a concept which you seem not to understand -- but you seem to have forgotten all about "due process of law."
      --

      REM Old programmers don't die. They just GOSUB without RETURN.

    2. Re:So much for freedom of speech by Entrope · · Score: 4, Informative

      Where does due process come into the picture? (Answer: it doesn't, since due process is about a person being able to protect himself against one-sided legal action.) The Constitution provides no penalties for libel, and corporations generally have as little ground as public figures do when it comes to making defamation claims. The joke has a nugget of truth in that in America, everything that is not prohibited is permitted.

      You also confuse the company's claim that the posts are defamatory with that actually being the case. Since the company refused to identify -- even as an example -- any post on the site that was defamatory, I doubt even they believe they have a case that would stand up in court. They just want to scare people into compliance.

    3. Re:So much for freedom of speech by Vellmont · · Score: 3, Informative


      Looking at some of the comments on that site, I can see why CSUSA thinks they have a case. Most of the worst posts have now been deleted, but the parents were in there accusing teachers of all kinds of horrible crimes, as well as CSUSA of condoning them.
      I read through some of that website, the worst post I saw was something about stealing pizza. I didn't see anything approaching libel.

      If CSUSA takes Reigelman to court and successfully proves that the parents were falsely defaming CSUSA on that website, then it is an open and shut case of libel, which is against the law.
      The proper approach would be to subpoena the forum owner for the names of the libelous parents. Then sue those parents for libel. The vast majority of the posts on this site are nowhere near libelous, so the school has no right to shut down the entire site.

      This clearly sounds like it's just a threatening action designed to silence people rather than merely stopping libel. If it were about libel they'd being going after individuals, not trying to shut down the site.

      --
      AccountKiller
    4. Re:So much for freedom of speech by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Charter schools aren't just any corporation. They receive taxpayer money to do a job usually performed by government bodies (public schools) and are therefore acting as an arm of government. So yeah, I'd say this is a First Amendment issue.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    5. Re:So much for freedom of speech by m_evanchik · · Score: 5, Interesting

      IANAL, but this is not such an open and shut case. These ignoramuses at CSUSA don't know what real criticism is, so I am going to show them.

      These are CHARTER schools, which means that they perform an essential public service, education, with a special dispensation from the government. Their role is not strictly private. They are taking over a service that would normally be publically administered, and therefore open to the same type of broad criticism that public figures and institutions may be subject to. As such their openness to criticism is much greater than your average private business.

      The public has an essential and compelling interest in promoting good education. This forum promotes that interest by fostering said discussion, a compelling and essential service. The interest of the corporation in protecting its image is far outweighed by the overwhelming interest of the public to have an open forum to discuss the public service the school provides. This charter school, it should also be noted is publically funded. Their CEO is a political pal of Jeb Bush. The President of the United States uses this organisation as a stage for his attacks on the public school system. CSUSA stinks of sacrificing childrens' futures in the name of political expediency. Like a diseased, filth-ridden sexual deviant, CSUSA sacrifices children in its perverse worship of Mammon. The Chairman and CEO, Jonathan K. Hage, is worse than John Wayne Gacy. (That last remark may be over the top, not in its accuracy, but merely in rhetorical appropriateness.)

      The bottom line is that they are using strong-arm tactics to quell legitimate criticism and dissent. It stinks to high heaven and underscores an essential misunderstanding by their management to their public mission. They should have their charter pulled for this kind of legal thuggery.

      It is my considered opinion that CSUSA is a rotten organisation with no business educating children. Their operation and their thuggish legal tactics are an affront to all civic-minded people.

      This is pretty strong criticism and I stand by it. I find it hard that there was anything worse on the board in question. I can't stand bullies.

      --

      evanchik.net

  2. Bad move by A+beautiful+mind · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Honestly, i couldn't have found a worse course of action to take by that organization, to dig their own grave. First they only had to deal with 65 parents, now its in the press. Talk about bad PR.

    --
    It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
    Be yourself no matter what they say
  3. Are you kidding? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They'll get invited on morning shows, they'll hire a professional public speaker, and they'll stay on message, which will include God/Jesus. Now is the time to buy stock, not short it.

  4. Call me crazy by cat_jesus · · Score: 4, Interesting

    But don't you have to identify what specifically you consider libelous and defamatory if you are going to take legal action? I Guess Darl McBride has some alumni running Charter Schools USA.

    I would write a letter back saying I have complied and to please let me know if I missed anything.

  5. Money to blow... by Hexzero · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sometimes media attention and a little /.ing is all it takes for a travesty to come to the mainstream. A charter school that wastes its time and financial resources on a lawsuite that can be considered frivoulous at best, should not be recieving state and gov't funds. Just another crap use for the joke the gov't calls no child left behind. Yeah, I am sure the funds are not connected. ERate is that perfect.... How much is a retainer for a medium-sized firm? Lets deduct that from the per head dollar amount the school gets from the state. Could that money have been used more efficiently? Probably... Perhaps we can get the government involved next. Senate hearings on closing the website down... Sounds like a viable option in todays government...

  6. Hurting Their Own Business by John_Booty · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Now, whenever somebody Googles for "Charter Schools USA", at least 9 of the top 10 search results will surely reference this questionable conduct. That's got to hurt their business in the long run.

    I hope that parents will vote with their money and send their kids to school elsewhere.

    --

    OtakuBooty.com: Smart, funny, sexy nerds.
  7. Fox News Generation! by Adult+film+producer · · Score: 4, Interesting

    is there such thing as libel and slander anymore ? Seriously, fox news has perfected this type of character assassination by qualifying all their statements with "Rumour has it John Doe has been killing fetuses".. or "It's been said that jack frost hates the military and is a liberal!" or "Word around Capital Hill indicates democrats want to kill god" ... Easy as pie..

    Nothing is slander anymore, it's just "Your opinion" Watch fox news sometime, they get away with saying crazy stuff all the time by using that legal technique.

  8. That's the great thing about privatization by smchris · · Score: 4, Insightful


    Accountability!

    Oh? Never mind.

  9. Re:difficult to deal with by notque · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This will be their downfall. In the end, people will remember Charter Schools USA as "difficult to deal with" and not as a good place to send their child to.

    Sad.

    It's only sad if they are not difficult to deal with, which from the message board it would seem they are.

    I would think the administration would want to deal with their concerns head on. If they are wrong on the message board, that would easily be addressed at a PTO meeting.

    Which CSU has canceled until the end of the School year.

    Seems pretty difficult to deal with to me.

    --
    http://use.perl.org
  10. Re:true tort reform. by dirk · · Score: 3, Informative

    Cease and desist letters are basically a warning. You send them to the person saying you believe what they are doing is illegal and you would like them to stop, and if they don't stop you may take legal action. They are basically a way to settle things without suing. Of course oftentimes they are used more as a threat than a warning ("Do what we want or we will sue you for millions of dollars") in the hopes the people would rather stop doing whatever it is they are doing than go through a court case they may or may not win (but will cost money either way).

    In short, there is nothing wrong with C&D letters. They should be the first step someone takes when they find someone infringing their copyright, trademark or the like. But they shouldn't be used as a way to scare people away from legal activities, which they often are.

    --

    "Information wants to be expensive" - Stewart Brand, the same guy who said "Information wants to be free"
  11. Re:true tort reform. by Compulawyer · · Score: 4, Informative
    "Real" cease and desist letters place a potential defendant on notice that a potential plaintiff considers the actions of the potential defendant to be illegal or more specifically, a violation of the rights of the potential plaintiff and/or causing the potential plaintill harm. This has the legal effect of supplying notice to a potential defendant.

    With some causes of action, if a potential plaintiff continues the conduct after having been explicitly notified, and if that action is deemed illegal, the defendant can be held to have acted willfully. In most cases, willful conduct results in greatly increased damages. In just about all cases, willful conduct looks very bad to a jury.

    --

    Laws affecting technology will always be bad until enough techies become lawyers.

  12. Charter Schools USA, 20 second judgement by AndroidCat · · Score: 5, Informative
    No link to them, so I went and had a look. They're definitely in the education business, that's for sure. Their site starts cheerful enough with the reaching kid graphic and Putting Children First sm slogan. Strangely, their mission and who we are pages don't mention much about kids after that. The Starting a Charter School makes my eyes glaze over.

    I have no idea of how good they are as schools, do they have a political leaning, or anything like that. If I was a parent, I'd probably ask some questions too. Definitely an Edu-Corp.

    --
    One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
    1. Re:Charter Schools USA, 20 second judgement by kfg · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, if you read the mission statement you'll find the school itself is the product, so the poor kids don't even have that going for them.

      The kids are the natural resource. Have you seen how they handle natural resources?

      KFG

  13. Right... by Rev.LoveJoy · · Score: 3, Insightful
    CNN clearly never does this.

    -- RLJ

  14. This is a job for 'offshore ISP' by Simonetta · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This is a example of the need for offshore ISPs where discussions can be held without harassment. It's an example of how the 'loser' countries of the 20th century can become the winners of the 21st. By being so low on the totem pole (a Pacific Northwest North American Tribal Nation's religious icon that has come to mean in American idiom to be insignificant in a hierarchy) that no one gives you any money so you have nothing to lose by providing a forum for people to air grievances.

    An enterprising person in a (relatively) stable nowheresville sets up an uncensored ISP. Then charges micropayments for access. In return the ISP ignores all threats and warnings of civil actions from countries with overdeveloped legal systems. This could be in a country like Nigeria that is super-corrupt and has its own resource base, or UAE in the Gulf where there is so much wealth that they immune to any bullying. Or a place like Botswana that has stability and no money. Or maybe a microstate like Litchenstein that has traditionally provided these various discrete services to their powerful neighbors.

    And again, you could fight this in court of law. You do have democracy, freedom of speech, tradition, and all that jazz on your side. But American courts run on money. It would be a lot cheaper in the long run just to hold the discussions on an offshore site in neutral territory. And it would send a strong message to lawyers that in the information age there is a new limit to the extent that they can use legal means to harass and intimidate people just for money.

  15. Re:Entirely consistent with a petty "dictator" by abulafia · · Score: 3, Funny
    The ultimate goal is simply to stay in power. To hell with the collateral damage to the kids and the organisation. At least they're consistent.

    "CSUSA has reviewed the Web site and has determined that your and other slashdotizens' and other Web site participants' published accusations, comments and statements are unlawful, defamatory and libelous against CSUSA, Gateway Charter School and Dr. Nauss,"

    "Accordingly, CSUSA hereby demands that you immediately cease and desist your continuous published libel and defamatory accusations, comments and statements."

    --
    I forget what 8 was for.
  16. In my experience... by delirium+of+disorder · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Schools do not tolerate dissent. The whole purpose of the US education system is to encrourage obedience, not to instil knowledge.

    (What happened to me)
    http://www.textfiles.com/uploads/incident.txt

    --
    ------ Take away the right to say fuck and you take away the right to say fuck the government.
  17. Re:So... by donscarletti · · Score: 5, Funny
    Are they going to sue slashdot?
    No, but unless this post is modded to +5 I will.
    --
    When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem