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Real ID: You Can Still Fight It

toupsz writes "Bill Scannell has created a website where anyone and everyone can fax their senators regarding the Real ID Act. Note that the act is up for vote on Tuesday, May 10th! All those against the Act might want to go to Bill's site: UnrealID.com. Thanks, Cory from BoingBoing!"

21 of 1,040 comments (clear)

  1. What's so bad? by TheKidWho · · Score: 3, Informative

    I mean seriously, what is so bad? Is everyone really buying into that Big Brother Crap where the government is going to know everywhere we go and shiat?

    Most European Countries use ID's like this already.

    1. Re:What's so bad? by uqbar · · Score: 5, Informative

      Bruce Schneier (as usual) has good insights on this.

    2. Re:What's so bad? by intnsred · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'll ignore the fact that this law blatantly violates the 10th Amendment, and will instead cite this CNet article by someone who knows far more about the law than I do:

      How Real ID will affect you
      By Declan McCullagh

      What's all the fuss with the Real ID Act about?

      President Bush is expected to sign an $82 billion military spending bill soon that will, in part, create electronically readable, federally approved ID cards for Americans. The House of Representatives overwhelmingly approved the package--which includes the Real ID Act--on Thursday.

      What does that mean for me?

      Starting three years from now, if you live or work in the United States, you'll need a federally approved ID card to travel on an airplane, open a bank account, collect Social Security payments, or take advantage of nearly any government service. Practically speaking, your driver's license likely will have to be reissued to meet federal standards. News.context

      What's new:

      The House of Representatives has approved an $82 billion military spending bill with an attachment that would mandate electronically readable ID cards for Americans. President Bush is expected to sign the bill.

      Bottom line:

      The Real ID Act would establish what amounts to a national identity card. State drivers' licenses and other such documents would have to meet federal ID standards established by the Department of Homeland Security.

      More stories on this topic

      The Real ID Act hands the Department of Homeland Security the power to set these standards and determine whether state drivers' licenses and other ID cards pass muster. Only ID cards approved by Homeland Security can be accepted "for any official purpose" by the feds.

      How will I get one of these new ID cards?

      You'll still get one through your state motor vehicle agency, and it will likely take the place of your drivers' license. But the identification process will be more rigorous.

      For instance, you'll need to bring a "photo identity document," document your birth date and address, and show that your Social Security number is what you had claimed it to be. U.S. citizens will have to prove that status, and foreigners will have to show a valid visa.

      State DMVs will have to verify that these identity documents are legitimate, digitize them and store them permanently. In addition, Social Security numbers must be verified with the Social Security Administration.

      What's going to be stored on this ID card?

      At a minimum: name, birth date, sex, ID number, a digital photograph, address, and a "common machine-readable technology" that Homeland Security will decide on. The card must also sport "physical security features designed to prevent tampering, counterfeiting, or duplication of the document for fraudulent purposes."

      Homeland Security is permitted to add additional requirements--such as a fingerprint or retinal scan--on top of those. We won't know for a while what these additional requirements will be.

      Why did these ID requirements get attached to an "emergency" military spending bill? Because it's difficult for politicians to vote against money that will go to the troops in Iraq and tsunami relief. The funds cover ammunition, weapons, tracked combat vehicles, aircraft, troop housing, death benefits, and so on.

      The House already approved a standalone version of the Real ID Act in February, but by a relatively close margin of 261-161. It was expected to run into some trouble in the Senate. Now that it's part of an Iraq spending bill, senators won't want to vote against it.

      What's the justification for this legislation anyway?

      Its supporters say that the Real ID Act is necessary to hinder terrorists, and to follow the ID card recommendations that the 9/11 Commission made last year.

      It will "hamper the ability of terrorist and criminal aliens to move freely throughout our socie

    3. Re:What's so bad? by discordja · · Score: 5, Informative
      REAL ID also prohibits states from issuing driver's licenses to illegal aliens. This makes no sense, and will only result in these illegal aliens driving without licenses -- which isn't going to help anyone's security.
      Wrong, it means they can't issue a drivers licence that has any value as an ID card. For example, in TN, there are two forms of licenses available. One that can be issued to undocs that states clearly 'For Driving Only' and is not a valid ID for airports etc. This does not limit whom the states may give a drivers license to but it does limit the value of that license if it does not meet certain minimum standards.
      --
      I stole this .sig
    4. Re:What's so bad? by As+Seen+On+TV · · Score: 4, Informative

      A passport is required to re-enter the United States, even if the place to which you're going doesn't require you to show one.

      Last May, I went to a family friend's house on a small private island off the Florida Keys for Memorial Day. (The owner went to boarding school with my Dad, became a banker, grew to be super-rich, all years before I was born.) Because the island was outside US territorial waters, I had to show my passport at airport customs to get back in, even though the entire island where we went was privately owned.

      Passports are required by the United States when a US citizen crosses the border inbound, no matter where you're coming from.

  2. Bruce Schneier on RealID by PaxTech · · Score: 4, Informative

    Bruce Schneier's weblog has some thoughts on RealID and why it's a terrible idea and won't increase security. Highly recommended.

    --
    All movements for social change begin as missions, evolve into businesses, and end up as rackets.
  3. Re:Line Item Veto? by jumbledInTheHead · · Score: 5, Informative

    The line item veto was ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court, so I don't see how this would be any good to Bush, who by the way supports the bill.

  4. Re:And before you fax your Senator... by Oculus+Habent · · Score: 4, Informative

    Check out Section 102, which allows the Secretary of Homeland Security "the authority to waive, and shall waive, all laws such Secretary, in such Secretary's sole discretion, determines necessary to ensure expeditious construction of the barriers and roads under this section." It also prevents any oversight or judicial review of those actions.

    I always wanted to be above the law. Now, to become Secretary of Homeland Security...

    --
    That what was all this school was for... to teach us how to solve our own problems. -- janeowit
  5. Nothing he can do by discordja · · Score: 4, Informative

    At this point there is nothing that can stop the passage of REAL ID short of a line item veto when it reaches the presidents desk .. and that's simply not going to happen.

    It's part of the spending bill, which just so happens to be a war bill, and was passed by some 350-50 margin in the house. If you think the Senate is gonna vote an 80 billion spending bill down you need your head examined.

    Bush will sign this into law even tho he doesn't want to, because if he doesn't, he'll never get anything through the Judicial committee. Sensenbrenner pretty much drew a line in the sand after the Pres promished him last November that he would get the opportunity to bring it to the floor after effectively demanding it be removed from the 9/11 bill. In some ways, the white house hopes to use this to leverage the immigration reform Bush has talked about twice.

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    I stole this .sig
  6. Re:Why Bother. by Concerned+Onlooker · · Score: 5, Informative
    What a load of Republican crap that is. The Republicans stopped more Clinton appointments than the Democrats ever will for Bush.
    In reality, Bush has had more judicial nominees approved than in the first terms of Presidents Clinton and Reagan, and the administration of his father. Of the 214 nominees sent to the Senate for a vote during his first term, Democrats blocked only ten, using the filibuster. As such, 95 percent of Bush's nominees have been approved. By contrast, from 1995 to 2000, while Republican Senator Orrin Hatch was chairman of the Judiciary Committee, the Senate blocked 35% of Clinton's circuit court nominees.
    From http://www.counterbias.com/236.html">this article.
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    http://www.rootstrikers.org/
  7. Uh oh...speeding in other states is coming to end. by Jakewk · · Score: 3, Informative

    Section 203 of the bill requires the linking of motor vehicle databases including all moving violations.
    Remember the days of speeding through Wyoming or Texas, paying the fine right there when you got caught and not having to report it back on your home state insurance?
    Well, those days are over.

  8. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 3, Informative

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  9. THE HORROR! by Jim_Callahan · · Score: 4, Informative

    Yeah, better protest... reading the act, the card will require awful, intrusive things like

    An adress of current residence
    A signature (oh, no!)
    A photograph (the horror!)
    and... wait for it... a DRIVERS LICENSE NUMBER.

    Those bastards! How dare they force my driver's license to reveal confidential information like my driver's license number! It's a crime against humanity, I tell you?

    Seriously, though. I have applied for drivers license in two states and neither of them will have to change a thing under this law, except being overseen by a federal organization. Maybe this means I'll finally stop getting jury summons for a state I haven't lived in in three years.

    --
    ...it's really a sad day for America when we require a goddamn ACT OF CONGRESS to make our DVD players work properly. ~
  10. Re:Am I the only one who remembers this? by amliebsch · · Score: 3, Informative
    Just a guess but I suspect the reason is that previous legislation directly mandated the states to participate in the identity legislation scheme, whereas this one just withholds federal funding for states that refuse to comply.

    It's the same reason why directly requiring states to raise their drinking ages to 21 is unconstitutional, but withholding highway funds for states that decline to do so is not.

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    If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
  11. Re:Hurrah! Real ID is bound to fail by amliebsch · · Score: 4, Informative
    Having worked in an actual legislator's office, the answer is to do one of the two following:

    1. Hand-write a letter (that means in handwriting - I know, low-tech, but it works) stating your opposition and the reasons.

    2. A polite phone call stating the same.

    In both cases, be sure to mention that this an issue you care about strongly and will remember it during the next election.

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    If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
  12. Re:Hurrah! Real ID is bound to fail by Dun+Malg · · Score: 3, Informative
    OK, so bulk faxes aren't a good idea; would you care to enlighten us further? Unless you have loads of money, how do you influence the democratic process in a 'smart' way?

    Hand written letters, sent by US Mail, postmarked from the house member's district or senator's state, individually written and uniquely phrased, from a whole lot of different people, expressing their disapproval. Emails and faxes are generally given little or no weight because they require almost no time investment to send. Phone calls are only slightly better than emails or faxes. Old-fashioned letters in large enough quantities do make a difference.

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    If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
  13. MESSAGE TEMPLATE by LanMan04 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Here is the message template that eff.org (Electronic Freedom Foundation) provides to write your representatives to speak out against the REAL ID Act. Use this if you're having trouble thinking of what to say. I know I'm encouraging thoughtless messages to congress, but hey, too bad for the idiots that support this bill:
    ------------------
    I am a constituent who cares about privacy and national security, and I urge you to oppose the REAL ID Act provisions of the House emergency supplemental spending bill. The REAL ID Act creates a de facto "national ID," threatening our privacy, security, and the principles of federalism that safeguard both.

    National identification systems are prone to abuse at every step of their creation and use. The REAL ID Act would establish an enormous national database of ID holders, where even a small percentage of errors would cause major social disruption. Also, the ID would function as an internal passport that would be shown before accessing planes, trains, national parks, and court houses - an irresistible target for forgers and identity thieves. The Act also requires IDs to include "common machine-readable technology," which would likely include controversial radio-frequency identification (RFID) technologies that can broadcast personal data to passersby. Worst of all, the REAL ID Act would divert resources from security measures that could actually work.

    Moreover, states do not want this kind of system. A similar program called "MATRIX" recently failed because states abandoned it due to privacy concerns. This is an example of federalism at work. We should respect a state's decision to protect its citizens' privacy, not conscript it into an ill-conceived national system.

    I hope that you will work to strip the REAL ID Act provisions from the emergency supplemental spending bill. Thank you for your time.
    -------------

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    With the first link, the chain is forged.
  14. here is why this is bad with Excerpts: by geekoid · · Score: 5, Informative

    I noticed several people not understanding why this is bad. Here are some excerpts from the bill:

    `(1) IN GENERAL- Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the Secretary of Homeland Security shall have the authority to waive, and shall waive, all laws such Secretary, in such Secretary's sole discretion, determines necessary to ensure expeditious construction of the barriers and roads under this section.

    `(2) NO JUDICIAL REVIEW- Notwithstanding any other provision of law (statutory or nonstatutory), no court, administrative agency, or other entity shall have jurisdiction--

    `(A) to hear any cause or claim arising from any action undertaken, or any decision made, by the Secretary of Homeland Security pursuant to paragraph (1); or

    `(B) to order compensatory, declaratory, injunctive, equitable, or any other relief for damage alleged to arise from any such action or decision.'.


    Secretary of Homeland Security can do what he wants, and nobody has any recourse at ALL. He wanst to put in land mines, nothing we can do about it. Wants to spend 80 Billion dollars a year patrolling our borders, nothing he can do about it.

    It errods Attorney General position by giving the Secertary of Homeland security the same power. Bear in mind the attorny general has checks and balances that the Secretary of Homeland Security does not.

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    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  15. NO judicial review??? by KlomDark · · Score: 4, Informative

    What in the mother fucking hell is wrong with these people? No judicial review? Since when do we remove a major check and balance from the American system? Just let this Homeland security guy play cowboy with no oversite from other factions of government?

    How completely, absolutely UNAMERICAN this Sensenbrenner person is. Has no grasp of the long term impact things like this will be to the US. Has no place in our government.

    Yah buddy, I said it, get out of our country since you obviously don't respect what made our country great.

    ------------------

    SEC. 102. WAIVER OF LAWS NECESSARY FOR IMPROVEMENT OF BARRIERS AT BORDERS.

    Section 102(c) of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (8 U.S.C. 1103 note) is amended to read as follows:

    `(c) Waiver-

    `(1) IN GENERAL- Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the Secretary of Homeland Security shall have the authority to waive, and shall waive, all laws such Secretary, in such Secretary's sole discretion, determines necessary to ensure expeditious construction of the barriers and roads under this section.

    `(2) NO JUDICIAL REVIEW- Notwithstanding any other provision of law (statutory or nonstatutory), no court, administrative agency, or other entity shall have jurisdiction--

    `(A) to hear any cause or claim arising from any action undertaken, or any decision made, by the Secretary of Homeland Security pursuant to paragraph (1); or

    `(B) to order compensatory, declaratory, injunctive, equitable, or any other relief for damage alleged to arise from any such action or decision.'.

  16. Not anymore by bluGill · · Score: 3, Informative

    Until a few years ago you were correct, hand written letters go the most weight. However this is no longer the case.

    Now any letter is unopened for several weeks, while they carefully check it for various poisons. (well anthrax and the like which are not exactly poison, but are deadly)

    Email is now preferred, everyone has email. Most people do not own a fax machine, though they are also liked. Phone calls work too, but they take more time.

    Make sure that you give your home address. Not a P.O. box, but a real address where you get mail. They will respond with a letter to that address for everything you send if you are in their area. If you not in their area they will forward your letter to your representative from that area who will respond.

  17. Reread your history books by isotope23 · · Score: 4, Informative

    "Just like we had no obligation to the rest of the world in both world wars. we went in not because we were obligated, but because it was the right thing to do."

    We entered WW I because the Germans sank the Lusitania. Even though they published a full page ad in American Newspapers warning people sailing to Britain that any ship carrying war goods was subject to sinking, (which the Lusitania was), when it was sunk with americans onboard we got sucked into the war.

    We entered WW II because of Pearl Harbor.

    Before BOTH incidents the majority of people here in the US were Isolationalist. Doing the "right" thing, had nothing to do with our entrance into either war.

    "and if we were in iraq for the oil, we sure as hell wouldn't be paying opec's prices for it."

    I'd suggest you read Wolfowitz's papers for the Project for a New American Century to understand why we invaded Iraq. Iraq not only has the 2nd largest oil reserves, but being centrally located in the middle east it is the perfect place to have permanent military bases.

    Keep in mind this was written in the 1990's long before 9/11 and the whole preemptive strike/WMD
    tale.

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