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Roadblocks to Linux in Education

Posted by Zonk on from the redmond-sized-roadblocks dept.

An anonymous reader writes "The Open Source Industry Australia (OSIA) has lashed out at government schools and education departments for snubbing FOSS. In this column, OSIA says it has been trying for over two years to make headway with these government agencies but 'they tell me that they are scared of doing anything which will upset Microsoft.'" From the article: "If these departments suddenly stopped paying for proprietary software and switched to FOSS, the schools know they won't reap any of the purported savings. So, why would schools bother with trialling FOSS? Where's the incentive?"

9 of 463 comments (clear)

  1. what are those idiots in the schools smoking? by alizard · · Score: 5, Insightful
    If I had a few thousand workstation seats, some reason for wanting to stay in Windows, and were negotiating with an MS sales rep, I'd simply have a box of Red Hat Enterprise and of SUSE sitting on my desk where it couldn't be missed and let the sales rep bring up discounts.

    Afraid to upset MS? What have they got against saving money? Sounds like some people in education need to get their asses fired.

    --
    Tech Public Policy stuff
    1. Re:what are those idiots in the schools smoking? by vwjeff · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If I had a few thousand workstation seats, some reason for wanting to stay in Windows, and were negotiating with an MS sales rep, I'd simply have a box of Red Hat Enterprise and of SUSE sitting on my desk where it couldn't be missed and let the sales rep bring up discounts.

      Afraid to upset MS? What have they got against saving money? Sounds like some people in education need to get their asses fired.

      I can tell you have never worked in a K-12 environment. The objective of education is suppose to get people ready for life. Guess what, the vast majority of kids are going to work in an environment where Windows is used. Linux has it's place and it is not on the desktop, yet.

      I am the computer tech. for a K-12 school district. I and I alone must support 14 different buildings with a total of over 5,000 computers. Desktop management is extremely important for me. I currently use Zenworks to manage the desktops. There is nothing in the Linux world that compares with the options available for Windows management. Believe me, I have tested SuSE with Zenworks and it is not as refined as the Windows implementation.

      Management is important but application support is the most important factor in choosing a desktop OS. Our computer labs in every school run educational applications that are available FOR WINDOWS ONLY. One suite of programs for math is required by the state. Our administrators also must run programs available for Windows only. These include special ed IEP (Individual Education Program) programs, financial and asset tracking programs required by the state, and grade and attendance databases that only have Windows frontends. The database itself I have running on a Trustix Linux server, which brings me to my next point.

      Our district is in the process of migrating from Netware 6 and 6.5 to SuSE Open Enteprise Server. From my personal experience of using Linux for eight years at home I can say it is not ready for desktop use in an educational environment. I wish the application support was available but it is not.

      You mentioned that schools may be afraid to upset Microsoft. As a matter of fact we are. Our district along with countless others receive large grants, last year a total of $200,000, from Microsoft. This year they threatened to take away this years money since we are moving to Open Enteprise Server. I asked our sales rep. they made threats this year and not in the past. We have been using Netware since 3x. He said he wasn't sure. I bluffed and said we were also considering migrating our desktop systems to Linux. He replied back with an apology, $225,000, and two new computer labs.

      I understand what Microsoft is doing. They are not making any money off of our district. What they are doing is molding future consumers. Am I ok with this? Yes I am. Any company in their position would do and has done the same thing. Apple became popular with schools because when you bought two computers you got a third free. We still have a few IIe's in service. Apple had a good thing going but they screwed up. Once the average user is comfortable with an interface, they do not want to change. Microsoft has change the interface to Windows very little in the past 10 years. They change it just enough for people to consider the upgrade but not enough to scare the same people off. I felt this way a few years ago when I upgraded my iMac from OS 9.1 to OSX 10.2. I use a variety of window managers in Linux so I am able to adapt and explore. I am glad Apple has not changed the OSX interface drastically. Perhaps they will be able to recapture a greater market share.

      My father, who was a Macintosh zealot, was scared off by OSX. He is now a Windows XP user and continues to use his Performa with OS 8.1.

      I think at this point I am writing for myself so I will finish up.

      The IT education environment is like none other. Right now Windows has the upper hand due mainly in part to application support; not stability, security, or cost. I hope more vendors will release educational software for Linux. Until then, we are stuck with Windows unless Wine makes more progress.

      I am done. If you have read to this point, thank you.

    2. Re:what are those idiots in the schools smoking? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Microsoft has change the interface to Windows very little in the past 10 years. They change it just enough for people to consider the upgrade but not enough to scare the same people off.
      You obviously never witnessed someone "taught Windows 95" (that is, "click here then here then here to do that") trying to figure out how to find Wordpad in WinXP Start menu. That's one of the biggest problems with Windows and other MS software in education - when it's assumed to be the only product, students just learn the specific shortcuts and mouse-click sequences. Then, when they have to work with something different, be it Linux, Mac, or even the new version of Windows, you start hearing cries such as, "omfg where is that button??? help!!!!".
    3. Re:what are those idiots in the schools smoking? by kassemi · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You state several times the lack of available software solutions for the linux platform forcing your school's decision to stick with Windows, and that is certainly an issue... And it will be for a LONG time if schools such as yours don't step up and find alternative solutions for these problems.

      One suite of programs for math is required by the state.

      Raise your voice. Make a complaint. What software suite is it, exactly? Make a large dent in the company's profits and they'll consider porting their software. Guaranteed.

      That attitude makes me sick. Developers make software for the operating systems of the people who will buy it!

      As far as desktop management goes... Although I'm not that familiar with zenworks, I do know that by simplifying your school's network you can do away with the need for many options that zenworks doesn't include in its linux product (if any).

      Until then, we are stuck with Windows unless Wine makes more progress.

      Give me a break. Reallocate funds saved on Windows licensing. Hire programmers to create solutions that are even better adapted than the ones you currently use.

      I could be wrong about everything above, but I do know this: Change isn't always easy. But when this much money can be saved, it's worth it. Give those teachers a fat bonus, if anything :)

      --
      What the hell's a "gewie?"
  2. Crystal maze by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If it's reached the point where you are scared of upsetting your sole source for software you depend upon, that's a clear sign you need to GET OUT NOW!

  3. Bureaucratic Budget Law by kimanaw · · Score: 5, Insightful
    1. Always spend at least 5% more than your budget (so you'll get more next budget cycle).
    2. Never underspend your budget (or they'll trim your budget in the next budget cycle!)
    3. The department director with the biggest budget wins.
    Nuff said.
    --
    007: "Who are you?"
    Pussy: "My name is Pussy Galore."
    007: "I must be dreaming..."
  4. Re:Sadly... by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Sadly, kids need skills with Windows, specifically its office applicatons for jobs and the real world(tm) in general. I can't get hired by some places because I've refused to learn how to learn some MS products.

    That's pretty much a myth since most schools don't teach kids how to use these apps except in the most rudimentary way. Granted, if you had no exposure to a word processor or a spreadsheet, that might keep you from being hired, but most kids coming out of school don't know anything but the minimal basics of those products. Otherwise, why would businesses spend so much money on training courses for employees?

    Kids don't need skills in Windows or Microsoft products. They need skills in using word processors to put their ideas together in a coherent and esthetical fashion. They need to know how to use a spreadsheet to solve a problem, but first they need to know how to solve the problem, conceptually.

    None of those things require a single Microsoft product. If it were the case that those skills don't transfer from one vendor's product to another, then we'd all still be using Wordstar and Visicalc.

  5. Re:Microsoft is still the norm in industry by jrcamp · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I have always been told you go to school to learn how to learn. It applies in K-12, and even moreso in college. We should be teaching students concepts, not how to memorize a certain interface. Teach them how to wordprocess a document. There's paragraphs, tabs, fonts, etc. These are the same in Microsoft Word as well as OpenOffice.org.

    Teach them how to send an e-mail. There's a to field, subject, and body. Again, the same in any e-mail client. Teach them how to intelligently use a search engine to find information. I'm sure you can see the pattern here. If not, maybe Clippie can help you out.

    The point is to teach them the concepts so that they are confident enough later in life to adapt to new things.

    Children are not completely fragile objects, contrary to the popular belief by some. Too often today people are treating them like single-celled organisms with no brains. Teach them the concepts and they will be able to thrive on their own in any environment.

  6. I'll tell you why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As a school district employee I tell you why. Microsoft cuts us some sweet deals on our software. They make it worth our while to keep using them. Beside how do you think teachers would take it when I said "Sorry, but Accelerated Reader won't work on Linux" or "Whoops, SASI isn't supported without using wine. And you need Libs X, Y and Z to run it. Guess you'll have to do attendance the old fashioned way." Microsoft is best at ease of use and wide application support, I would have ten times the headaches moving to linux as I have running windows. Plus with Websense and a kick ass firewall we rarely fall victim to spyware and virii. So it's a non-issue.

    Although we still have pentium ones around and it would be nice to move from windows 95 to Linux. But even though teachers may teach, I found they hate to be taught.