Hormel Back on The Spam Offensive

Anonymous Howard writes "After an xapparent setback in litigation, Hormel Foods is again pursuing actions against entities and organizations over the 'spam' trademark. According to the web site of DSPAM, an open-source statistical anti-spam filter, "Anti-spam software manufacturers may be in for a rude awakening. Hormel Foods Corporation and Hormel Foods LLC have recently filed for extensions to oppose or to cancel many new and existing spam-related trademarks and are even filing a few technology trademarks of their own. The DSPAM project, a popular open source and freely available spam filtering application, has already received two such notices of opposition from the trademark trial and appeal board. The complete history can be viewed here. This came about a year after the software's user community scrounged up the fee to file for a trademark...""

Comments

Spam

[nucal]

Anyone out there actually eat spam on a regular basis?

Re:Spam

[AndroidCat]

Spam is great! You can keep a can of it in the back of the cupboard for years. Every time you're stuck for something to cook for lunch or supper, you can look in the cupboard and say "Well, there's always the Spam", and you'll be able think of something else to prepare almost immediately.

It's a lot like Discworld dwarven bread.

Re:Spam

[hey!]

Yep. A friend of mine spent a summer at the Beijing sports college, where the literal breakfast of champions every day was a big bowl of jook (rice porridge) with a slice of spam on top.

Curiously, this is very similar to the way Hawaians use spam with poi, which is a starchy tuber that's is cooked into a porridge like consistency.

In any case, there's a big cultural difference between the way the Ameicans (well, haole Americans) use meat and the way the Chinese do. In American cuisine meat is the meal, and other stuff just goes around it to complement. You have a meal of burgers, and have your corn on the cob on the side. In Chinese cuisine, meat is used as a flavoring, like we use catsup. It's not that the don't have dishes that are primarily meat, but these are typically eaten as a course. Regular day to day meals do not center around meat.

Spam fits into this mode of meat eating better than the American mode. From a culinary standpoint, Spam as the centerpiece of a meal has the following faults:

(1) It's too spicy
(2) It's too salty
(3) It's too fatty
(4) It has an insipid texture.

Of course the first point is debatable, but most people who like "spicy" food like capsium based hotness. It's been a while since I've had Spam, but I remember it has rather clove-y, possibly with mace or some other aromatic seed spice. After you've eaten a quarter pound of the stuff, I'd think you'd get pretty sick of it.

None of these objections apply to Spam as a flavoring. In fact you can say pretty much all of them about anchovies, but very few people except for fish nuts like me eat anchovies right out of the can.

Sounds like

[Anonymous Coward]

It's time to hire a Spam Assassissin to take out a few Hormel lawyers.

Tough case

[bigtallmofo]

I understand why Hormel wants to do this. Normally you don't want your product associated with such a negative thing.

But Spam? Of the people that actually enjoy eating it, would anything dissuade them from doing so? I mean, they're eating gelatinous pig parts. They don't seem like very discerning consumers to me.

Re:Tough case

[Supertroll]

SPAM(tm) is the "Baywatch" of foods. Nobody admits to liking it but Hormell has been selling a metric assload of it for 60 years.

Re:Tough case

[jvollmer]

Hormell has been selling a metric assload of it for 60 years.

Shhh! You're giving away the recipe!

Miscategorized Article?

[Crimson Dragon]

I am curious why this article wasn't filed as "Your Rights Online". Maybe I am missing the boat here, but this seems to be an IP-related discussion and not a technical issue.

Re:Miscategorized Article?

[tukkayoot]

No, it's labeled correctly, here's an example of what a YRO article should look like.

SPAM vs spam

[kill-hup]

I seem to recall Hormel being somewhat okay with the use of the word "spam" sans caps. IIRC, "SPAM" is a trademark but "spam" is not.

'DSPAM', as a company name, would seem to be a perfect example of what Hormel has *not* tolerated...

Re:SPAM vs spam

[kill-hup]

(replying to myself)

Quick Google search found Hormel's "SPAM and the Internet" page.

Trademarks

[Tristandh]

Aren't trademarks only there to protect a certain brand from being used by others in similar types of industry? Fighting off unwanted commercial e-mail and selling pig's intestines as food are way different playing fields, so I don't see how Hormel has a case...
Of course, IANAL, so correct me if I'm wrong...

Re:Trademarks

[kfg]

You are correct, however, things get a bit more complicated when a company takes the trouble to invent a unique word to be their mark.

Exxon, Lexus, Infiniti, etc.

Coining a new word makes the mark stronger, because it begins its life innately attached to the company/product; and nothing else, as opposed to, say, "Bob's Garage."

Standard Oil even went to considerable trouble and expense to make sure their Exxon mark didn't have negative conotations anywhere in the world.

If you look down you'll find that Hormel is actually being rather reasonable about the whole thing, given the situation. They're defending their mark, as they must if they don't wish to loose it, but they really just aren't being dickheads about it. They accept that their mark, a word they invented just to be associated with their product, now has a new and second meaning.

But their concerns that in future people might wonder why they named their potted meat product after junk email are perfectly valid.

KFG

Re:Trademarks

[Tristandh]

I agree that they are quite reasonable in the whole matter. In fact, they explicitly state

We do not object to use of this slang term to describe UCE.

But OTOH, they say

Ultimately, we are trying to avoid the day when the consuming public asks, "Why would Hormel Foods name its product after junk e-mail?"

Which kind of conflicts with the former quote. Everyone knows about spam-email. Everyone has to deal with it. Seems to me they're fighting a lost case, and they know it.

Re:Lets see...

[DoorFrame]

Yeah, I'm not sure the infamous "Googlefight logic" neccessarily stands up in court.

Eh, but it worked against kleenex so who knows.

Their official stance

[zerocool^]

from: http://spam.com/ci/ci_in.htm

SPAM and the Internet

You've probably seen, heard or even used the term "spamming" to refer to the act of sending unsolicited commercial email (UCE), or "spam" to refer to the UCE itself. Following is our position on the relationship between UCE and our trademark SPAM.

Use of the term "spam" was adopted as a result of the Monty Python skit in which our SPAM meat product was featured. In this skit, a group of Vikings sang a chorus of "spam, spam, spam . . . " in an increasing crescendo, drowning out other conversation. Hence, the analogy applied because UCE was drowning out normal discourse on the Internet.

We do not object to use of this slang term to describe UCE, although we do object to the use of the word "spam" as a trademark and to the use of our product image in association with that term. Also, if the term is to be used, it should be used in all lower-case letters to distinguish it from our trademark SPAM, which should be used with all uppercase letters.

This slang term, which generically describes UCE, does not affect the strength of our trademark SPAM. In a Federal District Court case involving the famous trademark STAR WARS owned by Lucasfilm Ltd., the Court ruled that the slang term used to refer to the Strategic Defense Initiative did not weaken the trademark and the Court refused to stop its use as a slang term. Other examples of famous trademarks having a different slang meaning include MICKEY MOUSE, to describe something as unsophisticated and CADILLAC, used to denote something as being high quality. It is only when someone attempts to trademark the word "spam" that we object to such use, in order to protect our rights in our famous trademark SPAM. We coined this term in 1937 and it has become a famous trademark. Thus, we don't appreciate it when someone else tries to make money on the goodwill that we created in our trademark or product image, or takes away from the unique and distinctive nature of our famous trademark SPAM. Let's face it. Today's teens and young adults are more computer savvy than ever, and the next generations will be even more so. Children will be exposed to the slang term "spam" to describe UCE well before being exposed to our famous product SPAM. Ultimately, we are trying to avoid the day when the consuming public asks, "Why would Hormel Foods name its product after junk e-mail?"

Position Statement on "Spamming"

We oppose the act of "spamming" or sending UCE. We have never engaged in this practice, although we have been victimized by it. If you have been one of those who has received UCE with a return address using our website address of SPAM.com, it wasn't us. It's easy and commonplace for somebody sending UCE to simply adopt a fake header ID, which disguises the true source of the UCE and makes it appear that it is coming from someone else. If you have or do receive UCE with this header ID, please understand that it didn't come from us.

Other "spam" Websites

This is the one and only official SPAM Website, brought to you by the makers of the SPAM Family of products. All of the others have been created by somebody else. We are not associated with those other websites and are not responsible for their content. As a Company, we are opposed to content that is obscene, vulgar or otherwise not "family friendly." We support positive family values and you can count on us for "safe surfing" by your children.

Also, from their Legal and Copyright page:

4. Enforceability. If any of the above terms are unlawful, unenforceable, or void, such term(s) will be deemed severable and will not affect the validity or enforceability of the remaining terms.

5. Trademark Information. The following trademarks used or which are planned to be used in this site, whether registered or unregistered, are owned by Hormel Foods: SPAM; HORMEL; SPAMBURGER; SPAMTA

If Hormel wants...

[dyfet]

If Hormel wants to exclusivily "own" all the spam, I would be very happy to send them all mine!

Trademark dilution and despoilment...

[Anonymous Coward]

I can see their point. They've spent 68 years promoting their product and it's trademark and now some young whippersnappers have come along and linked it to something one wishes to avoid. I'd be pissed too.

They are also being quite reasonable in requesting that their trademark not be incorporated into other trademarks for association with something one wishes to avoid. It's not the same as Tiger which falls into the category of 'wordmarks'. SPAM was never a word so their argument is much stronger. DSPAM using SPAM is akin to taking someones custom artwork and adding a 'D' in front of it and calling it a different trademark.

Re:Eeeeewwwww!

[jacksonj04]

Actually, SPAM (the food) stands for Spiced Pork and Ham. Spam (the email) became associated with SPAM after a Monty Python sketch with a load of Vikings chanting SPAM repeatedly. Lots of SPAM = pointless and unwanted = spam.

Re:Eeeeewwwww!

[operagost]

That's how spam email got its name; spam email is the least desirable kind of email; Spam meat is the least desirable kind of meat.

It's pretty well established that "spam" got its name from a Monty Python bit. I hereby revoke your geek card.

It's also not "by products," if you will. It's pork shoulder, which is a perfectly good part of the pig. Or bad, depending on your opinion of pork.

Re:You're stupid then

[atomic-penguin]

First Spam is made from beef, not pork.

Quoted from the can... "Ingredients: Pork with Ham, Salt, Sugar, Sodium Nitrite." See picture.

Nice Classification and famous marks

[Christian Engstrom]

Aren't trademarks only there to protect a certain brand from being used by others in similar types of industry?

Yes, that's correct.Trademarks are divided into 45 different classes of goods and services. The system is called the "Nice Classification", since the original version of it was agreed on at some conference in Nice, France. This system is nowadays used in almost all countries in the world.

Under normal circumstances, marks in different classes are allowed to co-exists even if they are identical. For marks that are not entirely identical but merely very similar, like "Spam" vs. "SpamArrest", even more so.

For really well known marks, like Coca-Cola or IBM, there is an exception to this rule, which is called "Kodak protection" after the landmark case that is considered to have established the principle.

But in this case, where the original "Spam" trademark is so strongly tied to just one very specific product, I'd be very surprised if a court would find the "Spam" should enjoy Kodak protection. It's also quite debatable if "Spam" was ever that famous.

And even if there was a time when it could perhaps be argued that "Spam" was more frequently used to denote the "food" product, nowadays the meaning "junk email" is so widely established that I can't see how the owners of the origial "Spam" trademark could hope to be successful in their claims.

But perhaps they have some reasons for trying to pursue what to me looks like a very weak case indeed.

IANATML, but I've worked in the trademarks business for 25 years developing phonetic trademark search systems.

Give Hormel a break

[yotto]

I've always been impressed with the lighthearted (in a legal sense, I'm sure pirvately they're quite pissed about the whole thing) Hormel has been with the use of their product name in such a negative light. I don't think many companies would take such a view. I mean, Microsoft won't even let you market a product whose name SOUNDS like 'Windows.' I think that Hormel's stand in this case is reasonable.
/hates both spam and SPAM.

How about CAN-SPAM

[Anonymous Coward]

They're going to have a hard time suing someone for using SPAM in upper-case since they didn't gripe about the CAN-SPAM act of 2003. I guess suing congress would be a bit difficult.

Important question: Why was the term popular?

[Futurepower(R)]

I think that in this case, "pretty well established" is probably a correct term, but I also think it is a mistake.

The question is not why unwanted email was originally named "spam". The question is why the term was immediately adopted and enthusiastically used by so many people.

The people who named it "spam" and the people who adopted the term so easily and with such popularity were probably older people, not teenagers or people in their early twenties. I say that because I believe the formula for Hormel Foods SPAM has changed. I tried SPAM in the 50's. Even as a child I was disgusted by the fat in SPAM then. So, when I first heard the word "spam" associated with unwanted email, I completely understood and agreed wtih the reference.

If unwanted email had been named "foot stomp", I might have recognized the reference to the Monty Python TV show, but I would not have adopted the term myself.

I remember trying a bite of Hormel Foods SPAM several years ago, and I was surprised that it was not disgusting. That's why I think that the formula was changed.

Someone, please look on a can of Hormel Foods SPAM and post a comment with the total calories per serving and the number of fat calories per serviing.

Funny official statement from Hormel Foods : Let's face it. Today's teens and young adults are more computer savvy than ever, and the next generations will be even more so. Children will be exposed to the slang term "spam" to describe UCE well before being exposed to our famous product SPAM. Ultimately, we are trying to avoid the day when the consuming public asks, "Why would Hormel Foods name its product after junk e-mail?"

Re:Isn't going to work

[NineNine]

They are not trying to do that. They're trying to stop commercial entities from using their name.

Trademarks should never trump common speech

[Random BedHead Ed]

Trademarks work the way they do for a reason: because people want protection of their business and product names, but are not allowed to enforce the way the public uses language. A trademark holder gets a monopoly on a term that is not commonly in use for the purpose to which they have applied it. If the term does happen to go into common useage, they lose it. Trademarks should never be used to enforce how we use words.

This is why Bayer was forced to give up its trademarks on the words "aspirin" and "heroin." It's why Kodak ended up trying really hard to prevent their trademark from being used as a generic term for photographs after years of pushing their product that way. It's why Microsoft shouldn't have a trademark on the term "windows" when applied to a window-based GUI, and why Hormel should give up and either rename their product or accept that they have no case.

Of course this main "generic term" point is tangential. A case like this shouldn't even come to proving that spam is a generic term because the technology-related use of the word is in a diffierent industry from Hormel's anyway. If DSPAM were to go into the food business (ha, ha - I called SPAM "food"), then Hormel would have a case against them. But even as a "product" name, DSPAM should be in the clear because the term is applied to a different industry entirely.

Surely both points together mean that if DSPAM's lawyers cost the same as Hormel's, DSPAM would win.

Re:Lets see...

[theguyfromsaturn]

Can't it? I thought that if a trademark became associated with a generic thing it could lose its trademark status. As such, if you can show that people associate spam more readily to the junk e-mail than the meat product, it may just lose its trademark status. Granted, I don't know much on those things and I was only basing my comment on the fact that "Xerox" and "Google" were concerned because people "xerox" documents and "google" terms on the web on a daily basis... Hopefully better informed people will be able to light my bulb.

You misinterpreted the data

[Reziac]

No, that just means that most of the CALORIES are from fat. This is true of most foods that contain any fat (including butter and veg.oils) at all, because fat is the most caloric-dense ingredient.

Fat runs around 170 calories per ounce (vs. something like 60 cal/oz for meat).

So if a 2-ounce serving contains 140 cal. from fat, that means the product is around 20% fat.

Which is about the same as ordinary hamburger.

As to changes over the years, pork itself has become a fairly lean meat, so there is less fat in the average processed pig than there was 30 years ago. But the canning process is rather finicky about what can be in the can and still come out at the desired texture, so it's more likely changes in your tastes with maturity that make it seem different. Lots of kids think many things are gross that these same kids gobble wholeheartedly as adults.

Re:Eeeeewwwww!

[vidarh]

English comedy is only considered bland by those who don't understand it.

Interesting Hormel Story

[jacobcaz]

Years back (like 1996/1997) I registered the domain name spam.net and ran a site where people submitted funny computer articles that ran along side articles of my own writing.

I ran the site for maybe a year before I received my first C&D letter from Hormel. I replied back telling them I was not attempting to compete and was not dilluting their mark. Basically a nice, "Go to hell, Hormel!"

There were one or two more letters back and forth between Hormel and myself. When I registered the domain you still didn't have to pay for a registration. When Hormel decided they wanted it back you had to pay $100 for two years to InterNIC. I wanted Hormel to at least buy me a new domain since they were starting to threaten litigation if I didn't hand over spam.net (I was 20 at the time, litigation by a LARGE corporation didn't sound like a walk in the park).

Some months later I received a letter from WIPO telling me that Hormel had filed a petition against me and they decided the case was vague enough that they wouldn't give Hormel the name, but I couldn't use it either. InterNIC put the domain name on hold until Hormel and I could sort it out amongst ourselves.

Hormel contacted me once against asking for the name and I told them if I couldn't have it, they couldn't either. I was happy to leave it on hold so NEITHER of us could use it (scorched earth mentality baby!).

They just went away.

I would check on the name from time to time to see if it was still on hold. About 2 months before the payment was due (InterNIC required payment for on hold domains, damn their then-monopoly) I checked on the domain name. I was registered to Hormel, lock stock and barrel!

My plan had been to pay the registration feel just to keep the name tied up, but somehow - and without anyone notifying me - they managed to get the name transfered to them and taken off hold.

At no point had I ever agreed to transfer the name or provided anything in writing that said anything remotely close to it. But there it was, big as day, off hold and in the hands of Hormel.

I've been a little bitter about it ever since.

Re:Eeeeewwwww!

[Spetiam]

My understanding is that Spam is just a way of selling the fat and scraps that are left after processing other kinds of meat products.

Do you eat hot dogs? What's your understanding of those? :)

Sorry.

[eremitic]

So...do they expect the spammish inquisition?

Re:Sorry.

[omeomi]

nobody expects the spammish inquisition.