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Intel Head Recommends Apple

pboulang writes "noted in this article in the WSJ: Pressed about security by Mr. Mossberg, Mr. Otellini had a startling confession: He spends an hour a weekend removing spyware from his daughter's computer. And when further pressed about whether a mainstream computer user in search of immediate safety from security woes ought to buy Apple Computer Inc.'s Macintosh instead of a Wintel PC, he said, "If you want to fix it tomorrow, maybe you should buy something else.""

23 of 705 comments (clear)

  1. Linux? by nukem996 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Why not Linux? No spyware, or viruss to worry about. Its secure and stable. You can use what ever hardware you want. Maybe Apple is going to use intel hardware...

    1. Re:Linux? by quickbasicguru · · Score: 3, Interesting

      With Linux, you're automatically at a disadvantage - it's hard to NOT screw things up.

      I disagree. With Windows it is easy to screw things up. With Linux, not so.

      Sure, you can screw it up if you have the root password, but why would you give the root password to a child!?! You can do so much as a normal user.

      I think if you had the admin password for a mac, you could screw thing up easily too...

    2. Re:Linux? by daniel23 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Maybe Apple is going to use intel hardware...


      or maybe Intel really has another reason to mention Apple, like scaring a distributor which maybe got too much self esteem?
      Ie., Dell?

      --
      605413? Yes, it's a prime.
    3. Re:Linux? by Junior+J.+Junior+III · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Will she be smart enough to handle anything but the most idiot-proof OS?

      That's the point of Linux. The Admin can lock out the user so that they only USE the OS to run applications. They CAN'T screw the system up because they don't have access to do so. THAT'S idiot proof.

      The real concern for the daughter using Linux is whether he favorite app Foo has been ported or copied by an OSS alternative.

      --
      You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
    4. Re:Linux? by Ritz_Just_Ritz · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I had a similar experience. I switched my folks (in their late 50's with little computer experience) from Windows 2000 to CentOS 4.0 (basically Redhat EL4). And I haven't heard a peep out of them since. They use firefox for the web, thunderbird for email, and openoffice when someone sends them a MS Office file. The computer boots up faster, doesn't creak under the bloat load (It's a P3 1ghz machine with 384MB RAM and an Nvidia GeForce 5200 card) and just plain works. The fact that they don't have to give a moment's thought to virus infection or spyware is "pennies from heaven"...a bonus. Everyone's happy. Cheers,

    5. Re:Linux? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Well, I don't like just advertising for the heck of it.... but have you tried SUSE?

      SuSE usually just works (exception, when I had a BNC network I still had to set the parameters for the NIC by hand to avoid it using the RJ45 port).

      By default it creates a normal user, to which it also auto-logins, so no need for an admin to do that for you.

      Everything, even apache (which it doesnt install by default, but it was an example) is configured graphically via YaST.

      It even installs a working (!) copy of wine, so you can run some of your windows programs (as good as wine can.. I mean, wine is still ... ugh)

      Now if they just got rid of Konqueror as the default browser in KDE everything would be right in the world; but it still does install Firefox by default.

    6. Re:Linux? by mindstrm · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yeah.. except
      you DO have access to your user files, and tons of application settings, and just about every computer resource needed to mess things up for you.

      Sure, you can't erase the system files, perhaps, or some key software, but you can still mess up your own desktop environment completely.

      Most mac users do have the admin password to their mac, and yet they still manage to not screw it up.

      My theory on this is twofold:
      1) The way admin passwords are asked for and handled is more sane. It will prompt you for it when needed, as opposed to asking you to sign out and log in and do things again (windows). I am not convinced this is that important.. but it plays a role.

      2) More importnatly, the UI is more consistant, and users are generally fairly confident about how their computer should look, feel, and behave. Anything that changes that is instantly noticed.. In windows, people tend to accept change as a part of life; people EXPECT their computer to degrade in performance over time, eventually requiring a re-install or upgrade. My OS operates at precisely (as far as I can tell) the same speed as wehn I installed it, a couple years ago, and that's after two full OS version upgrades (not re-installs), and moving the drive between 3 different macs. By same speed, I mean adjusted for faster processors; The OS on the G4 1.4Ghz runs faster than the G3 800, by the expected amount.

    7. Re:Linux? by megalomang · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As funny as that would be, Dell is not scared of this. In fact, if the deal went through (and I don't think it will - at least in the PC business) it would be in all three's interests to have Dell involved.

      Apple SW + Intel CPU/chipset + Dell mobo and sales... the combined hype and marketing force alone would topple mountains, not to mention put a dent in Microsoft's ego and even profits.

      Oh yeah, and throw a little Google in there somewhere too... desktop search or something... lol

    8. Re:Linux? by Spoing · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Because unless you're a reasonably tech-minded person, Linux is too hard.

      That's bull. Case in point: I've set up a system for a friend who has 2 goals in using a computer; porn and surf music. He seems quite happy with his Linux system, and doesn't bug me with any questions.

      The reason why he asked me to install Linux? Every 6 months, he would have to call in a PC tech to clean his Windows system from virus and malware.

      After a few years of that, he happened to hear that I did not have these problems and asked me why. I said "I don't use Windows"... 'If not Windows, what?' 'Linux.' ...and so on. He quickly asked me to install it on his computer for him.

      At first, I did not install Linux for him, seeing if he would loose interest in the idea. I let 3 weeks pass. He didn't loose interst at all and was constantly annoyed with the spyware and virus problems he had to manage. Firefox did not resolve all these problems, and Norton slowed his computer down and showed him regular annoying messages. After the 3 weeks passed, I eventually installed Linux with a dual boot setup for him.

      He hasn't booted into Windows for over a year.

      This is an average guy. He's a bartender and not at all geeky. Knows nothing about computers besides they are great for porn and surf music. Try and get him to look at anything else and he's 100% uninterested.

      --
      A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
    9. Re:Linux? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What a prude.

      Seriously, exploits DO count. That's the whole point, you can break security on a windows box by running one of the MANY exploits. Your whole argument hinges on the understanding that exploits don't count and Windows is secure if you don't count them...are you CRAZY???

      Think about it. How do systems get hacked/cracked? It isn't by sitting there and guessing at passwords all day...granted that's one way to do it but it is inefficient...and while that would work on virtually any system it just isn't the easiest way to get in. Crackers use EXPLOITS to get in quickly...thus if you want to be secure IT MUST BE FREE FROM EXPLOITS so they DO count.

      I'm not saying Mac or Linux is free themselves...I'm just saying that your argument that Windows is secure b/c exploits don't count is just WRONG!

    10. Re:Linux? by Hercynium · · Score: 3, Interesting

      hehehehehe... I like you, you make me laugh!

      Are you a programmer... or do you just play one on TV? Seriously, I need to burn some karma on this one.

      I can't even quote sections of your post 'cause I'd be using the whole thing. First off, let me *defend* Windows (easy there, skript kiddeez, I'm typing this from my debian box)

      The Win32 API is big and ungainly in some places. It's not always consistient, and it's implementation most certainly has bugs... but it IS THE MOST comprehensive application development environment ever built. Please note, I said Applications, not systems.

      Win32 does not NEED an object model... repeat after me... system API's do not need object models. Would you prefer glibc to be OO? If you need classes, you've got MFC. If you need Components, you've got COM and it's ilk.

      I agree, I think MFC sucks... at least for my programming style. But there are LOTS of developers who will disagree. I also feel like programming in PHP is a PITA... but I *love* coding perl (I never said I was mentally stable) To each his own.

      Now, your most blatantly ignorant statement: the Windows Security Model... tell me, how log ago did you print out your degree... or are you speaking from years of inside experience? The Windows 'security model' look great on paper, doesn't it? ooooo, domain management, trust relationships, end-to-end encryption... tokens, global admins, profiles.... yep... it's pretty complex. Now imagine how many admins understand the interactions between all the parts and know how to make it work. Now imagine how many 'leet haxorz are out there slipping through the chinks... heck, I routinely slip past the security model of my company's windows network so I can actually work efficiently. To say that the model hasn't been broken is like saying President Clinton did not have sex with that woman, monica lewinski. Even fort knox can be breached if some idiot leaves a window open... and Windows is no fort knox. It's more like a tent with a professionally-printed sign that says 'this is fort knox'

      Anyhow, I've gotta go... I'm busy developing SECURE systems for a living.

      --
      I'm done with sigs. Sigs are lame.
  2. Knoppix! by tbuckner · · Score: 4, Interesting

    As far as I know, the most secure machine a home user can have right now would be a no-OS computer with a Knoppix disk in the CD drive. Nothing would be stored on the hard drive but user files. Updating software would mean updating Knoppix. That'd work, right?

  3. Re:An hour a weekend? by Orgazmus · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Do _you_ have a daugther? Or a little sister?
    Its hell. Kill spyware once a week, format once every 3 months.

    --
    The system had the verbosity of HTML combined with all the readability of compiled assembly viewed as bitmap images
  4. Two things by Elwood+P+Dowd · · Score: 2, Interesting
    1. Way more respect for Mr. Otellini. I had assumed he got the job due to mob ties.
    2. Hardly the point of his talk, or the article
    Oh, and: "D" sounds like it was hella boring this year.
    --

    There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
  5. Re:An hour a weekend? by jasper · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I spent an hour today at lunch trying to remove spyware from my 13yo cousins computer.

    With the reboots, multiple programs (lavasoft and spybot) updated, still couldn't get rid of pop-up windows. This computer hasn't been online yet a week. :(

    Don't worry, I have a plan.

  6. Colour Me Cynical by milkasing · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Sure a Windows PC's security sucks. ... But with Microsoft turning to Power PC chips for its XBOX and with Apple in talks with Intel, is this just a sign that sign that the Wintel alliance is fraying

  7. My Experience - Current.... by fudg3tunn3l · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm trying to blast the Spyware and Trojan Horses and Ad Ware off of my cousins computer but the dirty blighters stick to Winblows PC's like a rabid barnacle on the Titanic, reboot and their back!.... to be truly honest I am completely sick of fixing Windows PC's and would gladly install SuSE would my cousin let me. Unfortunately fear and "needing games" stops him...

    --
    Resident of Skara Brae since 1985
  8. Re:Marketing ploy by plj · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Crossed into my mind, too. But I still don't think that Apple would switch to x86. Do people actually see any sense in it, if Intel would also jump into PPC bandwagon and start making those chips? After all, the required documentation is publicly available.

    --
    “Wait for Hurd if you want something real” –Linus
  9. Re:An hour a weekend? by nolife · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You can create shortcuts that integrate runas

    I have a user on my machines called IEUSER with very little privleges. You can create a shortcuts to replace your normal IE shortcuts to start IE as that user automatically with:

    C:\WINDOWS\system32\runas.exe /user:ieuser /savecred "C:\Program Files\Internet Explorer\IEXPLORE.EXE"

    Of course you can start any progam in this manner.
    The problem is when links are clicked from other applications, it starts IE being the default browser with my credentials. I have not figured out that one yet. On a side note, I leave IE as the defualt browser but have Kerio personall firewall set to request permission before allowing IE network access. This way, if a virus/spyware tries to call IE or the IE rending engine which is my default URL handler, I will be prompted by my firewall to allow access. If I did not actively click something to start this, I know something fishy is going on and investigate.

    --
    Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
  10. Forget the Intel/Mac comment in the article.. by kevcol · · Score: 2, Interesting

    More entertaining is Scott McNealy's section

    Sun's decision to make peace with Microsoft Corp. more than a year ago gave Mr. McNealy's company some $2 billion in cash...

    *snip*

    Mr. McNealy compared Sun's agreement with Microsoft to a pair of boxers who shake hands by tapping gloves and "promise not to bite each other's ears off." But he got in at least a nip, telling the audience that while Sun does run Windows to ensure interoperability, employees who aren't in engineering aren't allowed "to connect Windows to our network for security and viruses reasons. ... For another $2.4 billion maybe I won't say that."

  11. IW4M by leonbrooks · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The four different desktop machines (well, 3 dt and one laptop) in this household all run Mandrake Linux. Sound worked on all of them OOTB. Only this desktop has a special sound card (Yamaha 744), the rest are Intel or PC'97. Everything shares sound nicely through artsd.

    Occasionally the Flash plugin goes wild, but VeryNice fixes that automagically after a few minutes (and later Konquerors also offer to fix it for you on the spot if set to do so).

    OTOH my book-keeper plugged a Win2k-based laptop into his LAN yesterday, and after much farting around (nothing as neat as MCC here) finally managed to get the internal firewalling shut down, and Norton's internet security thing, and the laptop still won't read the shares on the one (98SE) machine he wants it to, and nor will any of the other machines (98SE, 95, XP) read the laptop - but Samba reads it just fine, both the old version on the gateway and the new version on his LOB server. None of the other machines have any problems with each other (including Samba, both ways). Yes, the workgroup, authentication etc are all correct and consistent. Yes, he did reboot them all. The laptop is happy to talk to the chosen machine using WinSCP and the CygWin SSH server.

    That's my definition of "difficult to understand". And so much of Windows is like that. Case in point: all of the network settings for Win2k are in the network control panel - except for the machine identity, which is part of the properties on My [Bill's] Computer.

    People only think it's normal because they're used to it. Linux is not difficult, just different.

    --
    Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
  12. Re:Why not Linux? by wrf3 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I didn't say that I got Mac OS X to play sound on a Dell. I said that Linux couldn't play sound on a Dell. Mac OS X works just fine on my three PowerBooks, 2 iMacs, and iBook. Windows networking works on my Macs right out of the box. I'll have to spend time to figure out how to make Linux work.

    And that's the problem with Linux. It's like a TR7 that a friend used to have; it's a great car if you want to spend more time working on it than driving it. He would drive from New Jersery to Virginia to see his girlfriend, and then spend all weekend working on his car so that he could get back home.

  13. Re:big mistake for intel by akuma(x86) · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This is a silly argument.

    What possible motivation is there for Microsoft to move to a different ISA? Almost all of the world's software is written for x86. Moving to a different ISA would seriously weaken Microsoft's monopoly position because all of the tools and infrastructure (drivers, compilers, debuggers etc...) are build around x86. Microsoft would commit financial suicide if this happened not only because the ISVs would be pissed, but for another reason - There simply isn't enough capacity to supply NON-x86 silicon to meet global demand (computers would start costing $5000 again - not a good thing for Microsoft).

    Intel supplies 80% of the worlds microprocessors. Nobody else has the fab capacity to do this. It takes a few years to put up a fab and each one costs about 3 billion dollars (which keep getting even more expensive for each process generation). IBM/AMD/others simply don't have the capital structure to build all the fabs necessary to meet global demand. Who is going to put up the capital? Microsoft? Why? The already enjoy monopoly pricing. How would moving to a different ISA give them any kind of a return on investment given the costs?

    Building microprocessors is so expensive that DEC-Alpha, HP-PA RISC and SGI-MIPS have all thrown in the towel yeilding to Intel. SPARC will be the next to go. If Apple goes with Intel, expect POWER to be the next to die (sorry but console profits are tiny).

    Here's my prediction. In 10 years, everything will run on x86. Yes, even PDAs and cell phones. The risk to Intel is that more competitors start building x86 processors (AMD is too small). Maybe Samsung or some other company with the capital requirements and semiconductor expertise necessary to build out fabs.

    In fact, I think that Microsoft is more at risk.

    They are at risk on the desktop/laptop side from Apple and Linux. Both of which run x86 (Admittedly, the Apple thing is still a rumor).

    Let's say the market moves away from the PC to a more server/thin-client model. Microsoft gets cut out of the picture (think Google already running their software services on x86-Linux and upstarts like RIMM/Blackberry running their software on the clients). Google runs on Intel. RIMM does not, but Intel is already a leader in the handheld space (think ARM).

    Now let's consider the diversification argument by listing the markets that require computing power.

    PCs/Desktops? No question here. Intel has a dominant market share in both processors and chipsets.

    Graphics? Intel is #1 in graphics marketshare with their integrated graphics solution.

    How about notebooks? Intel is the clear leader in that rapidly growing space. Transmeta tried to compete and got crushed. AMD is all but invisible with their one-trick opteron pony. The market is moving here and Intel is there to capitalize.

    PDAs? Intel inside with StrongARM.

    Cell phones? Intel inside (with their flash chips).

    Servers? Intel is again very big here with over a 90% share of x86 servers.

    Embedded? No Intel there. The reason? There's no money there...

    Consoles? No Intel there. There's very little money to be made with silicon. All of the value is in the software. NVIDIA only made about 30 million on XBOX (Intel made something similar). ATI is reported to make about 2$ per console on XBOX360. To put it into perspective, Intel makes about 600 million every single week.

    Diversification has worked beautifully for companies like IBM and GE. 10 years ago, I do not think that IBM would have been able to dump its PC business without significantly damaging themselves.

    IBM is valued less than Intel by about 30%. GE has been around for 100 years, Intel is only 30.

    In the 80s Intel was concentrated on making memory chips but were getting killed by the Japanese, and in a heartbeat, diversified into microprocessors. Until the demand for microprocessors diminishes, Intel will keep making them. It's hard to stop when you still have 60% gross margins. If there's value and growth in silicon, Intel is well positioned to take advantage with their enormous fab capacity and their army of skilled engineers.