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Researching Open Source
philippInAfrica writes "bridges.org just released the software comparison study that looks at free/open source software and proprietary software in community computer labs in Africa. The announcement is on bridges, or you can download the full report in PDF form. To our knowledge, this is the largest field study of its kind in developing countries - we visited 121 computer labs in Namibia, Uganda and South Africa - and we are making all data available to other researchers. Feedback from the international ./ community would be great."
Comment removed based on user account deletion
technology solutions appropriate for African public-access computer labs.
for public-access computer labs in Africa.
in practice they are not borne by many of the public-access computer labs in
Africa.
FOSS depends on many factors.
software -- are low overall, and experience with proprietary software is more
pervasive.
is not exploited by the vast majority of public-access lab staff or users in
Africa because they lack the necessary skills. However, it does offers an
opportunity for local service providers to create customised applications.
free/open source and proprietary software) is reasonably high overall,
although FOSS support tends to rely on free services.
African languages, these localised versions are not yet widely used in publicaccess
labs and there is some disagreement about the value of local language
software.
enthusiastic implementing organisations, so the success of FOSS labs relies
heavily on their efforts.
experience can be identified among labs that use the same type of software.
Feedback from the international ./ community would be great."
;)
The dotslash community? Are we a bunch of shell scripts now?
DBA? Software Engineer? My company is hiring! Click
got your attention? good.
in 1997, i did a talk on samba. when the question asked was "why should we bother to interoperate with proprietary protocols when we are [clever enough] to write our own and we don't _need_ to interoperate [with microsoft]", everybody clapped.
that was a _very_ interesting and defining moment, because it told me that everyone in that room lacked any sense of responsibility associated with their intelligence, capabilities, and the opportunities that their education and environment had presented them.
now, there's someone here at bridges.org pointing out that Free Software is pretty much useless to people who need it the most.
i hope that this article will bring that home more clearly - that the ignorance and ego [definition of arrogance] of free software developers needs to go.
if you HAVE the ability, ACCEPT the responsibility.
From the "Key ground-level findings":
Donations, fine, but unlicensed copies? So they're saying that one consideration in the FOSS versus proprietary software situation is the willingness of the public labs to break international copyright laws?
Okay, maybe I can accept that from an informational standpoint, but are decisions on how to proceed and what software is going to be used going to be made based on this information?
[This study] was published this week to provide needed background information and advice to people who want to make sound software choices that are right for their local environments...
Oh, I guess indeed they are.
./././././././././././ still gets you to slashdot.
My hacked site
And this is supposed to interest me how?
Far from supposing that it interests you, we don't even care whether it interests you.
USA! USA!
Umm...
From the Samba home page:
Samba is an Open Source/Free Software suite that has, since 1992, provided file and print services to all manner of SMB/CIFS clients, including the numerous versions of Microsoft Windows operating systems. Samba is freely available under the GNU General Public License.
Am I missing something? Samba was developed by a bunch of (ignorant? arrogant?) free software developers.
Car companies do this all the time.. "Best in its class!" or "Rated top in this category". The reason is because they've defined their own "class", and their vehicle is the only one in it.
The most important thing is what you do with the computers. This was one of the key points in tfa. Most of the projects haven't been able to show positive results in terms of the local peoples' condition.
9 41 53,prtpage-1.cms
timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-10
The above link contrasts the usual computer literacy projects in India with the 'Hole in the Wall' project. That experiment has been able to show great results in literacy in poor neighborhoods.
Oh, and one more thing. I don't know if you don't know what you're talking about or the people at your meeting didn't know, but neither Samba nor SMB/CIFS, the protocol on which it is based, is a proprietary protocol. It's implementation within Windows is, but the protocol itself isn't. From an article about CIFS posted at Microsoft:
CIFS is an open, cross-platform technology based on the native file-sharing protocols built into Microsoft Windows and other popular PC operating systems, and supported on dozens of other platforms.
In either case, someone is a nutcase. If it's the speaker at your meeting, he or she is certainly not representative of the open source development community I've seen and experienced, and I'm probably inclined to agree that he or she is ignorant and arrogant. If it's you, well then, you do deserve to be modded down in spite of your complaining reply to your own post.
(No offense, but I'm leaning toward believing that in this case, it's you...)
From the article:
> labs cannot afford to buy proprietary applications or download FOSS applications from the Internet;
Yikes! They can't afford to download FOSS applications? What could possibly be cheaper distribution than that? If that's true, then this is an extremely serious issue.
We all have been assuming for years that Internet distribution of FOSS appications was the lowest cost method. What do we need to do to eliminate this obstacle? Burn FOSS software on CDs and mail them worldwide?
> familiarity and experience with proprietary software are more widespread and lab managers are more likely to find help from a friend or colleague if they use the most common applications.
That's only because FOSS applications aren't yet the "most common". This problem can be fixed with time. The key is to make sure that the FOSS alternative is well-distributed and always available as an option. If Microsoft is sending CDs to African computer labs, then there's no reason why we (the FOSS community) can't also be sending them CDs.
The conclusion that it's best to stick with what is popular because it's already popular is retarded. (No offense to any of my dear retarded friends and family which includes the majority of them.)
Also, the thing about the importance of it being easier to find someone who knows how to install, use and manage Windows sounds rather suspicious and odd in the age of the Linux LiveCD. There's no way in hell it is easier to install and manage Windows in any flavor than it is to manage a LiveCD. No way in hell.
This report has that oddly familiar whiff of serlf proclaimed "fair and balanced" while quickly reaching an absurd conclusion. Why is that becoming so familar these days?
Please do - a couple of KNOPPIX cd's with the works on them would be nice :
Department of Computer Science, University of Cape Town, University Avenue North, Private Bag Rondebosch 7700 Cape Town South Africa.
And whatever other FOSS you reckon is worth trumpeting.
cheers
bruce
In the old USSR, it was common for people to gripe "what good does it do to have freedom to say waht you want and worship the religion you want when noone guarantees you will have food on the table"
Well, the answer is A LOT, and all to oftern I see that attitude about the 3rd world express itself in ways like "well free software doesn't really do you much good when you're starving" and I find that attitude arrogant and condesending. Because what that is really saying is well "you poor souls are too stupid to learn and help yoursleves, so were just gonna worry about feeding you - and not give a shit and keep a neutral attitude about if you should have any freedom to help yourselves because you will never appreciate it"
Well bullshit! Freedom is not a means, it is an end that derives from the fact that people have free will and that demands things about how we treat people and how we run and organise our societies. That's why freedom is successfull, and not because it promises the most immediate reward.
In the information age, freedom means holding yourself accountable to the success of free software and respecting people right to copy and share information at their disposal. How can a social culture like that not lead to long term success!
wrong, I'm the only person around here. you're just a figment of my imagination and I'm tired of thinking about you. goodbye
Philosophers have to cure many intellectual diseases in themselves before arriving at the notions of common sense.
>>Burn FOSS software on CDs and mail them worldwide?
Probably can't do that. AOL most likely has this distribution method patented.
We could translate the instructions into bar codes and fax the resultant pages to the development community over there... Bar code software was the next big thing back in..oh..1977 or so..
Back in the late 70's some software was published this way, on paper, using bar codes. To program the machine, one used a bar code reader to scan the instructions into memory. I can't find a link for this, but anyway maybe what's old can be new again. If they can afford fax machines and phone lines..
wbs.
Huh?
The FOSS movement as a whole seems to be experiencing growing pains. This article basically points to the existence of a software multiverse...meaning there are alternatives. FOSS is a reaction to Microsoft desktop dominance (ignoring UNIX for now) and we now or will soon have exactly what we wanted: a choice. It doesn't mean that Microsoft will now die or go away. I believe it's very telling that people using unlicensed MS software made it into the report at all...
In particular there are maps of African connectivity (Dr. Dzvimbo's) and mentions of use in education (like Dr. Miyagawa from MIT's OpenCourseware).
The U.S. in 2003 (at the first part of this conference) apparently was against the final draft saying anything about open source or choosing open source over commercial software. However this time it seems open source is being explicitly covered.
One interesting person there was Mike Reed, Director of United Nations University's International Institute for Software Technology (UNU-IIST). He talked about their hiring 10 open source developers to develop a standardized desktop distro for learning in the third world. He's a famous mathematician and computer scientist, in particular he wants to mathematically prove that a distro and its programs will "just work" which sounds pretty interesting. Anybody wanting to go to Macau should contact him!
I converted all the pdfs to text and grepped "open source" below FYI.
You've got the whole issue back to front, although it's not really your fault --- the problem is that nobody really describes FOSS for what it really is, and that is, an emergent phenomenon.
... it just needs a few minimally-funded organizations to be set up to provide those itches to be scratched that so many FOSS people talk about. But simply complaining that FOSS doesn't deliver in some key areas is pointless, when it is emergent by design.
Your whole emphasis on personal ignorance and ego and on "if you HAVE the ability, ACCEPT the responsibility" is entirely irrelevant when it is not personal responsibility that has any large driving power in FOSS. FOSS has immense strengths derived from emergence, but it also has substantial weaknesses as it stands currently, and for the same reason.
Can this be remedied? Yes, easily
If you want to be constructive over "FOSS as it should be for Africa" then set up a couple of charities to foster development of the EXACT software and systems that you need. It won't take long and it won't be expensive. But unless you do it, an undirected movement will not fill your needs.
Yikes! They can't afford to download FOSS applications? What could possibly be cheaper distribution than that?
It's called a CD. Hello... we're talking Africa here, not all have internet access...
if it doesn't interest you then why is your post so far down?
too bad this article wasn't about american knobs (I just assume this type of post is from an american) who's job was outsourced. Would you find that more interesting?
> It's called a CD. Hello... we're talking Africa here, not all have internet access...
Ummm, the article was specifically referring to public computer labs. Computer labs where people come to view web pages and send e-mail.
The reason these labs exists is because home Internet access is extremely rare. The labs have Internet access, otherwise there would be little reason for them to exist.
Simple, because you worthless losers moderated it improperly.
What does the distaste for information about a worthless part of the world have anything to do with American out-sourcing?
Besides, its sort of hard to be out-sourced when you own the place.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Because this is what I hate the most: Some company is looking into spending a lot of IT dollars on something that will hopefully help their business in some way. A representative from Microsoft and a representative from a Linux company both show up to a meeting to present their ideas. The Linux representative goes first and basically describes how the system is mature, is efficient, works well, and is widely known, inside and out. All of this means, of course, that the company's business applications can literally be made to do anything, because any part of the system can be controlled to provide exactly what the business desires. If a particular company does not provide good enough service, the business can always choose another, because, once again, the system and its internals are widely known.
Then, the Microsoft representative gets up and says, "By leveraging innovative technologies, content providers streamline compelling enterprise solutions. By maximizing world-class action-items, ubiquitous e-commerce infomediaries e-enable front-end methodologies to harness synergies, redefining cross-media schemas."
Of course, the business buys from Microsoft. And that pisses me off.
The article is pretty much right on the money. If it is government, they accept donated MS software. If it private, they use pirated. Cost takes a back seat to practicality. Everyone knows MS, why introduce something different?
The key is training. I hope to bring some people up to speed on FOSS and let it spread a little. When cost doesn't matter, what you are familiar with does.
simple summary:
.... but this doesn't contribute to working with computers. Japaniess aren't known for physical strength, but for technology in fabrication...etc..
--we want it simpler to learn, use and modify.--
who doesn't, besides the software industry itself in general?
threads of arrogance regarding FOSS and we all know of marketing deceptions from the proprietary side.
sorta a stuck between a rock and a hardplace.
Overall it seems to me that the number one priority is figuring out what uses computers can genuinely be to the Africian people, as a whole, a group, and individuals..
Once you figure that out, then perhaps you'll then have more control over exactly what your system requirements are. And then from there work on getting a system to fullfill the needs.
Its possible that neither linux or Windows is what is needed in many cases. I mean if you want to simplify things. Unixes certainly aren't simple in the scope of multi-user systems and windows has its manifested user frustration function incorporated from the mindset of "making people need MS". Where things that are simple in concept and perhaps even in unixes, are over complexicated in Windows.
Once you establish what you need, how computers WILL benefit Africian society at multi-levels, then perhaps the second priority is to build it, to write the programs...create the networks...
That is what FOSS is about. And because of FOSS you don't have to start from scratch.
On the development side, its possible that proprietary development software is better than FOSS development environments, but ultimately its about programming languages, programming concepts, data types..
And these things don't give a shit what so called natural language you speak, cause they ain't.
Why? beside the logical foundation of software, as opposed to the often irrational thinking of people, nobody really seems to be interested in making software easy to create.... a matter of industry self protection (common to both foss and proprietary). Even those you teach to program will find it in their interest to follow such a direction, if only unitentionally thru subjectivity
There are other issues of which the report did not go into. Different nationalities/societies tend to have different qualities that make them stand out in the view of a world perspective. I.E Japan is more geared towards long term goals then the americans short term. And the Germans are detail, persision oriented, etc..
What are the African qualities, culture. Don't think it doesn't matter, for it is obvious that it does matter. The report comes to some conclusions and advice for those in Africa interested in involvement in such labs. It seems to have been quite complete and rather honest good and bad, which is a damn good place to work from. Now what are the qualities of the mindset of Africans in general.... good and bad...??
The sports world recognized physical strength and endurance of
Point is, you gotta look at other nationalities and societies in the world to better see where the african people, and their way of life fits with computers. Besides general society functioning use of computers, there is culture, mindset.
If everyone thinks in terms of computer functionality, then what happens to culture.
Seems to me the biggest use of computers in Africa right now is in the scope of using them as communication device for education, and I don't mean education on how computers work, but about all the many other things outside of computer technology, many of which are pre-requisites to get up to a level of grasping the usefulness of computer beyond an education communication tool.
As the report stated, many don't know what use a computer can be to them... they don't know because they don't have the pre-requisite education to know, or see it for themselves.
And this is certainly a bit away from more computer in depth topics like programming.
But what does access mean in this context:
"In 2001 there was more international IP bandwidth (1.3Gbit/s) available to the 450 000 citizens of Luxembourg than the 820 million citizens of the African continent (1.2Gbit/s). Although available bandwidth is now slowly increasing, as new satellite providers enter the market a lack of bandwidth still threatens Internet usage and uptake."
"Under 6% of all Africans can access telecommunications of any kind with many of those outside urban areas unable to access fixed lines. The Internet is out of reach to the vast majority of Africans" What does broadband offer for Africa?
make that 79 ....
...
What a useless study this was. How about teaching "Africans" (whatever *that* means) about this stuff rather then studying them like some kind of insect.
Is anyone suggesting "Africans" *don't need* the internet? (BTW: open source comes with the internet - you can't have one without the other which is why everyone - including MS - uses and sells open source); or better yet that they *shouldn't have it* (after they need food and roads first, right?).
Sheesh
The Ghana stock exchange http://www.gse.com.gh/> gained 91.33% in 2004. US American stocks averaged less than 10. Not surprising really if dopes like you are in charge.
Philosophers have to cure many intellectual diseases in themselves before arriving at the notions of common sense.
Sneaky, sure, but they're technically not lying. If something is the only one of it's kind, then it technically is also the best of it's kind (and the worst, too, but they wouldn't advertise that)...