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White Knight Testing X-37
mknewman writes "The innovative carrier plane used to air-launch SpaceShipOne has a new mission. At its inland spaceport in Mojave, Calif., the White Knight mothership has been involved in fit and high-speed taxi checks with a new passenger: the X-37, an unpiloted, reusable space plane. "
The cynical people (like me) know that the best way to kill an agency is to starve it to death slowly. The Mars mission is a classic example of this process. First you cut back on all smaller missions to consolidate spending under one gigantic program. Then you allow the costs for the gigantic mission to ballon until their is no public support for it any longer. At that point you can kill the agency without political damage.
Fortunately there are newer, less expensive methods for delivering payloads into LEO and with this vehicle it will be possible to perform much of what NASA proposed doing with the ISS with a fraction of the cost.
Universities would be a good customer for this type of launch/service space company because the payloads launched by NASA come with significant strings attached to them and they do not get to control the vehicle once launched.
How much do you think a partnership between a university and a private company could save by doing their own space probes?
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
reminds me of the one that Steve Austin crashed in the Six Million Dollar Man tv program intro...
well, he's gotta feed the monkey!
Are you trolling?
Burt Rutan may be a superhero, but he needs to eat, just like everybody else. He is not a charity. It doesn't seem like White Knight or its pilots were doing much anyway. I can't imagine that renting out a plane to NASA is a huge distraction.
Rutan's current project, Virgin Galactic, has nothing to do with orbital flight. It is merely a souped-up version of Spaceship One. Rutan has himself said that scaling up to an orbital spacecraft would be many orders of magnitude more difficult and expensive, and it doesn't seem to be a priority for him right now.
And in what sense is this selling out? If taking Richard Branson's and Paul Allen's money was not selling out, then how does it follow that he is tainting his principles by helping NASA out with a test platform for reusable space technology?
Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
Scaled Composites (Rutan's company) does a LOT of things. The company also is involved in several projects at any given time. This sort of thing is not at all unusual for them. Rutan himself is probably not too terribly involved in this. He's stated before that most of his own time from now on will probably be invested in the Space Tourism efforts. Also note that the larger craft being built for Virgin Galactic will more than likely require a larger version of the White Knight so without SSO flighing any more, this seems like a good way to keep using White Knight to me.
Also, as much of a leader Rutan is, he's not the only one shooting for affordable and safe privately manned space flight. Personally, I can't wait until the X-Prize Cup's first year.
As explained in Milton Thompson's "Flight Without Wings", the Steve Austin crash was an actual crash at Edwards of one of the lifting bodies. But in real life, the pilot actually walked away from that one -- apparently they needed extra weight in the nose to balance the craft for flight, so they used that weight to beef up the safety cage for the pilot.
The site is not slashdotted. Nevertheless the original space.com article.
Well you made it to space, now we need you to be our guinea pig.
Not trolling at all.
Perhaps my post was poorly worded.
Is Rutan going to advance the cause of civilian orbital spaceflight or not? I was under the impression that he was. I thought he was onboard for the Bigalow orbital prize. Perhaps this is due to my confusion over the myriad prizes and programs out there today.
If he is, then I don't understand how helping DoD furthers that cause. If he isn't, then by all means go for the bucks. No troll intended.
Why do they need the White Knight? Don't they usually drop these types of test craft from bombers (like the B-52)? Surely the US air force can get thier hands on one.
"I'm not impatient. I just hate waiting." - My Dad
Rutan & Co. may have won the X Prize, but their design doesn't stand a chance in the race to low-Earth orbit. Their design will not scale well.
Okay, they have one chance: Falcon V might never fly. If it does fly successfully, though, there will be a capsule stacked on top of it before you can say "Soyuz is obsolete."
Nasa has been doing this kind of crap ever since they finished the Space Shuttles.
They start down a promising path of cheaper, more efficient access to orbit, just ditch the research.
Personally, I think it's the middle managers that are screwing everything up. Administrations and directors come and go, but the morons in the middle are always around.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
It's simple.
He's developed SS1. He has test pilots on his payroll that he probably has contractual obligations to pay whether they're doing something or not.
Both SS1 and its pilots are currently not doing anything, and operating them right now doesn't take ANY resources away from other projects. By renting out SS1, he's converting a possible money sink into a moneymaker, money he can use to further the development projects he wants to pursue.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Cost of the White Knight AND the SS1 - around $25 million
Cost of the X37 -- $173 million.
The article didn't say if this is $173 million is just for the X37 prototype or for one that can actually be used. My guess is the former.
"I'm not impatient. I just hate waiting." - My Dad
Hey, this looks just the right size for strategic bombs...
Do you know how much money it takes to maintain and fly a modified B52 as a launch platform? It may make sense for military use for quick surveillance satellite insertion, but not research. It's always about economics.
'sides, the B-52H that replaced the B-52B "Old 008" is not ready to do drop missions.
The last mission the old warhorse did was the Hyper-X mission and they had the devils' own time with the fuel transfer system. They finally managed to avoid aborting the mission by using the air refuelling management panel.
First rule of holes; When in one, stop digging.
Why is there so much plagiarism on /.? The two sentences supposedly written by mknewman, were actually written by Leonard David, the author of the article. Why give credit to someone for cutting and pasting?
I agree that LEO is best left to the private concerns. However I disagree about your view of what setting a Mars mission does to NASA.
NASA should be about advancing our capabilities many fold. This does not mean doing the same damn thing we have been doing for nearly 50 years which is playing around in orbit of our own planet.
NASA should be about goals outside the capabilites (read monetary concerns) of privates/corporations. This means setting up on the moon and eventually getting to Mars.
Scenario. Use NASA to setup a PERMANENT facility on the Moon. Then by the design and policy have that open to private interests. The big expense is setting up a launching point that others can use. NASA (read:government) could charge a nominal fee for usage and set some ground rules. However this makes it open to ANYONE.
NASA isn't hobbled by looking to Mars, NASA has been hobbled for the last 20 years simply because they WERE NOT looking beyond the Earth. (let alone public imagination - I am pretty sure orbital excursions are and have been ho-hum for sometime)
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
They are so deeply different in each and every aspect that it's a miracle the dont't develop allergic reactions on the contact elements ;-)
http://www.dieblinkenlights.com
...and thus we wonder why someone linked to an MSNBC article to begin with
Also, this news was originally announced several months ago when the contract was signed, although I don't believe it was covered on slashdot at the time.
Rutan has done a lot of DoD work for years. He started by making composite models of various low observable aircraft for radar cross-section testing, hence the name "Scaled Composites".
He has made an ultra-low cost ground attack fighter and an experimental flying scale model of a tactical transport airplane.
White Knights sister ship, Proteous, has been dropping various smart bombs as a "UAV Surrogate" for DoD testing for the last year.
It's about as bad as naming roller coasters after Zyklon gas
You mean like this?
Reality can be scary...
Aeris Died For Your Sins.
Hmm. So it sounds like they'd either have to speed up the preparation of the plane they'd planned to use, or to delay the program, either of which could be a lot more costly than if they had the aircraft ready to go.
I wonder too if Scaled isn't charging something closer to marginal cost rather than average costs (e.g. not accounting for sunk costs in the fee). I can think of several strategic reasons to do so, not the least of which this is a one time opportunity to demonstrate that this kind of thing could be handled by a private contractor. It's clearly a potential service they could offer which would commericalize some of the technology they used for the X-prize.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Correction, he's renting out white knight, not SS1. That doesn't really take any resources from his design devision, in fact it's probably helping to fund it.
"I don't understand how taking the entire rest of year to do drop tests for the Air Force is going to advance anything. Make a few bucks, sure. But make progress towards civilian orbital flight? If there's some strategy there I don't understand it."
From what I understand this is pretty much business as usual for him. You know, the sort of thing that is going to pay for that civilian orbital flight of yours?
Pilot of X-37: Software (not remote controlled)
Customer of SS1: Nobody
Customer of X-37: NASA, Air Force, and DARPA
Honk if you're horny.
Man, i feel sorry for our species. We spend 3 trillion dollars on killing humanity. and only 53 million a year to save it.
It seems like we want our species to end on this godforsaken rock.
doesn't mean they don't exist (still in the prototype phase, but still an intriguing idea).
-- The morphemes of your disquisition are ascertainable, but they have eschewed an ambit of transpicuous exposition.
Or at least they're not supposed to be. Rather, they give you the information that you need to then build a good air/spacecraft using similar ideas. (eg: The X-31's vectored thrust ideas being used in the F-22)
Is it me, or does the name White Knight sound racist.
It's you.
a brand new TPS (as he didn't use much of a TPS at all)
What? Didn't he get that memo?
If Mr. Edison had thought smarter he wouldn't sweat as much. --Nikola Tesla
Dieter Wulf's article in The Atlantic Magazine shows a picture (not on the web) of a Wunderwaffen or Nazi "miracle weapon" that looks exactly like the White Knight Space Ship One combo. Not to knock Burt Rutan or anything, but it goes to show the German war machine did some serious thought. What's interesting is that they current thoery on the plane was to fly it into US buildings. Here's the picture
I know I've always squaked that NASA ought to amble on over to Burt's place and talk serious business. Well I'll be, they did it! Looks like NASA just might finish this project on time, and under budget. Congrats NASA.
Oops, yeah. Little typo there, WK is what I meant.
:)
And yes, my point was that it takes 0 resources from the design people, and minimal resources from other people (test pilots/maintenance) that were probably idle to begin with, and the money coming in from these rentals will fund the new designs.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
How would you ensure that companies from other countries than US get to use this plan too?
Its about as bad as naming roller coasters after Zyklon gas.
Zyklon is the German word for cyclone. Are they not allowed to use that word anymore?