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Online Shoppers Naive About Online Prices

smooth wombat writes "Have you ever been shopping online and noticed the difference in prices for the same item at different stores? Do you realize that not only are the prices different from store to store but they could be different for you compared to someone else who shops at the same store? Nearly 2/3 of adult internet shoppers thought that practice was illegal according to a study (pdf format) conducted by the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania. First-time buyers at a retailer could see higher prices than a firm's repeat customers, and retailers may not offer discounts to consumers who buy the same brands regularly without even looking at alternative products on the same site. From the article: 'The Annenberg study was based on results from a telephone survey from Feb. 8 to March 14 of 1,500 adults who said they had used the Internet within the past 30 days. The margin of sampling error was reported to be plus or minus 2.51 percentage points.'"

80 of 513 comments (clear)

  1. Meningitis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Shopping when you're suffering from it is no fun!

  2. Henson by sintacks · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Wakka Wakka Wakka!

  3. Wow.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    That explains why I pay so little for my online subscription to Grizzly Man Magazine...

  4. Re:Does this happen much? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic
    Not true. Unless they assign their copyright to the author. Linux, for instance, has thousands of "owners."

    Also witness the recent problems with mozilla re-licensing. Every contributor had to agree to the relicensing or the code they contributed had to be rewritten when they couldn't be found (and there were a few).

    That's why, in the FA, the organizer of GPL-Violations is able to enforce the GPL on the kernel. He is one of the thousands of contributors.


  5. Re:Most online shoppers simply niave.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    These things are an entity of greed, something in which the GPL was not founded. IMHO the GPL is an agreement between the user and the developer to maintain the inegrity of the code, and to further its existence and usefulness. This, by nature, is in effect the opposite of that which defines conventional means of protecting ideas and property.

    Developing open source software for public use is not something attributed to those who would benefit from doing so arbitrarily, it is something attributed to those who would better the world around them no matter what they are doing.

    The true meaning behind the division we see is far deeper than what can and cannot be enforceable. The problem we are facing has resolution in the re-thinking of laws and governing institutions over our daily lives. The GPL is not something which can be negotiated or changed to make the individual able to wave in the air in a courtroom, it is a doctrine to which can be added for the need of expanding an idealistic medium of communication between the individual and the masses.

  6. Re:What is funny is.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    This is why contributors to GNU software are expected to assign copyright to the FSF.

    This issue has been addressed, and the FSF has shown one way to handle it properly. There's nothing to see here.

  7. Re:Be informed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    He has been enforcing GPL for over a year now with impressive results.

    This guy does not know what he is talking about.

  8. Re:Advice from InternetWeek by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    You mean, all those messages I sprinkle in my programs that say "Copyright 2005 Eric Smith" don't give them a hint?

  9. Re:Yep by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    [sarcasm]

    ...regular copyright agreements, patents, and EULAs are easily enforced.

    [/sarcasm]

    Seriously, though, I'm a little baffled. I haven't met many lawyers who wanted easy enforcement, clear terms, or intuitive filing. I mean, I guess it's good? But a little odd./p

  10. Re:outrage! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    I have exclusive copyright for my work, unless I transfer it in a written "instrument of conveyance."

    An infringer might claim that I have no standing, but could not possibly make that case as there is no instrument of conveyance, and I and FSF would both testify that I had not tranferred ownership.

    Since when was uncertainty as to the owner a defence? If I rip off your bicycle (to use the stupid IP as physical property analogy), am I less guilty because I thought I was ripping off somebody else's?

  11. Re:Really? I don't believe it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    This is pretty stupid. The author of a work is the copyright owner in perpetuity unless they assign ownership to someone else. If there are multiple authors then the authors as a group own the copyright. This is the way copyright has always worked.

    A work is technically, and legally, copyright upon creation by the author. You don't have to register something with the US Copyright Office for it to be protected. The point of registering with the Copyright Office is to provide an official registration so that if you are legally challenged, it's likely the first person to register is the owner. But it's nothing more than a measure of protection.

    If I create a work and you register the copyright in your name, the burden of proof falls to me to prove that I created it first. But if I can do that, then legally I'm protected and you are not.

    So putting your name on it does nothing for it. If you want to protect it, go to the Copyright Office web site, download the form, fill it out, and send it in with you $30. That's the best protection you can have.

  12. Re:Old School Business Practices by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Seriously, you can't pay someone to come up with schlock this bad.

    No kidding. Check this out (from vmscan.c in the Linux kernel):

    /*
    * linux/mm/vmscan.c
    *
    * Copyright (C) 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994 Linus Torvalds
    *
    * Swap reorganised 29.12.95, Stephen Tweedie.
    * kswapd added: 7.1.96 sct
    * Removed kswapd_ctl limits, and swap out as many pages as needed
    * to bring the system back to freepages.high: 2.4.97, Rik van Riel.
    * Zone aware kswapd started 02/00, Kanoj Sarcar (kanoj@sgi.com).
    * Multiqueue VM started 5.8.00, Rik van Riel.
    */

    Any doubts about whose the copyright is?


  13. Re:Does this happen much? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Yeah, google is a publicly owned company. Where are my shares, dammit?

  14. Re:So people who buy with no thought to price by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    On the other hand, the GPL is just clear enough, that anyone reading it knows when he is in wrong doing.

    That is why there are so few trials involving the GPL in court: violators tend to make agreements before it even gets there.

    It happened just last month around here: on a list I subscribe too tehre are some lawyers who suypport Free Software. One of the members of the list noted that one program a large internet provider offered for free (beer) download for its subscribers was actually a renamed and closed GPLed Software. We on the list had the same doubt as the article proposes: in name of whom should we send a letter to the violators? The developers of said program were all from abroad - they might not even get interested in getting involved. Moreover, for the local lawyers to be able to legaly represent the foreigner developers, there would be quite a lot of bureaucratic entanglements.

    So, on the list, we decided just to send a lawyer letter pointing that their software was violating the GPL - said lawyer was representing no one in particular. Ok, it took some phone calls besides the letter, but in no much time, they complied and released the source code for downloading, as required by the license.

    So, IMHO, IANAL, ETC, even when a case actually gets into trial, a single developer, with no more than a few dozen lines of code, involved in the proccess is more than enough for the wrongdoing to get characterized.

  15. Re:and it goes on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Wouldent this be covered under Derivative Works as the author "derives" the finished product from a copyrighted work? I am way way not a lawyer, IANAL./div

  16. Re:The Euphemism is: Price Customization by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic
    The copyright of the actual text of the GPL is owned by the Free Software Foundation, but the author owns the copyright to the GPL-licensed software. Authors that wish to release their software under the GPL are advised to include a line in the source code stating "Copyright © [name of author]".

    If the author of GPL-licensed product discovers that a company has not adhered to the terms and conditions of the free software licence, the individual may find it difficult to argue his case in court as the defending party could argue that the copyright appears to belong to the Free Software Foundation, according to Guibault.

    "The only name that appears on the licence is the Free Software Foundation -- they appear to be the licensor," she said.

    Seriously, you can't pay someone to come up with schlock this bad.


  17. Huh? by ylikone · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Hmmm.... me thinks someone is posting to the completely wrong thread.

    --
    Meh.
    1. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      It's the new crapflooding scheme - trolls reposting highly moderated comments from other threads.

    2. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      Darwin didn't know about trolls.

  18. Re:Advice from InternetWeek by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic
    RTFA. From TFA:
    Richard Stallman, the founder of the Free Software Foundation and the author of the GPL, was unable to comment in time for this article. /blockquote
  19. Re:Froogle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    This has been obvious to me ever since Wolfenstein 3D almost 14 years ago.

  20. Re:I admit I'm one of those by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic
    You'd think a lawyer would have been smart enough to read this.

    Quote:

    Whichever license you plan to use, the process involves adding two elements to each source file of your program: a copyright notice (such as "Copyright 1999 Linda Jones"), and a statement of copying permission, saying that the program is distributed under the terms of the GNU General Public License (or the Lesser GPL).

    A quick perusal of any GPL'd software in the world would have shown how full of shit the guy was.


  21. Re:outrage! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Seriously, you can't pay someone to come up with schlock this bad.

    You have clearly never read a John Dvorak article.

  22. Re:Really? I don't believe it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Top 10 includes the US at 28.5%. No EU country is in the top ten list. "during the first three weeks of May, approximately 26% of daily new zombies originated in the European Union, including 6%, 5% and 3% of new zombies originated in Germany, France and the United Kingdom, respectively." That's NEW zombies. The EU share of zombies is increasing, but it isn't the major source (yet).

  23. Re:Yep by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    How do you know they weren't patched? Patching doesn't really help you when the user runs the executable attachment they got in their email, or installs something shiny they found on the web.

  24. Re:Old School Business Practices by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Whether hacked computers and their clueless users or hideous undead out for brains, nothing beats the tried and true shotgun.

  25. Re:and it goes on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    People own copyright on their own code unless they specifically assign it to someone else. A owns his code, B owns his code. C's code is illegal and C is in a world of hurt because he committed infringement and is liable for the damages. A and B could strip out C's code once they found out and no harm can come to them.

    IANAL.

  26. Re:Schock and out rage!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Call in Shaun of the Dead!

    Ed: Any zombies out there?
    Shaun: Don't say that!
    Ed: What?
    Shaun: The "zed" word. Don't say it!
    Ed: Well... are they any?
    Shaun: I don't see any. Maybe it's not as bad as all that.
    Shaun: Oh, no wait, there they are.

  27. Re:Age-old line by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Joe Hacker's code is still copyright Joe Hacker. When did he assign away his copyright? Not by using the GPL. Of course, it might be hard for Joe Hacker to find out where is code has ended up ... but that's life on the globe of corporate scumbags we call Earth.

  28. Re:not so clever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic
    It's just that the worse you want the stuff to be, the more you have to pay them to stop laughing long enough to write it.


    The FSF owns (a) the licence, and (b) all code assigned to it. (This is why they do strongly suggest assigning rights to it, to avoid any lack of understanding or willful stupidity on the part of lawyers or corporate execs.)


    Any individual programmer owns all GPLed code that they write, provided they have not assigned the rights to the FSF.


    Personally, I don't see the problem. Well, actually, I do. The problem is that a lot of lawyers get paid to find problems and create them when they aren't there to be found.


    The French only pay doctors when people are well, which means that doctors there do a great deal to prevent illness, rather than profit off it. Maybe US corporate lawyers should be paid on a similar basis - by how many legal tangles they DON'T get into, which seems a better indicator of when they are doing their job.
    /p

  29. Re:Schock and out rage!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic
    From the very start we (an ISP) have told our customers they are responsible for the proper use of their computers. If you own a car and drive it into a schoolyard and kill someone's child, it is not an acceptable defence to say "Shucks, I didn't know how to drive, not my fault".

    So too, if you own a computer and want to be part of a community of connected computers, not bothering to inform yourself of how to do that does not excuse your responsibility for whatever damage your computer causes.

    So what we do to spam zombies is:

    a) block them totally and stop them from causing any more damage

    b) send them an email telling them how much it cost to clean up their mess (usualy around $500), and that we will bill them if they do it again

    c) only unblock them when they give us their assurance they understand what the future costs may be an will never allow it to happen again

    d) permanently disconnect them and bill them the full amount of sysadmin and helpdesk time and materials of they allow it to happen again.

    It's a really tough line, sure, we have lost maybe 3 customers as a result in 18 months (average spend per customer is $34 per month), out of 20,000. But it is far, far cheaper that the cost of just letting it happen unchecked.


  30. Re:Be informed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    I expected something like this might happen some day, but I'm ready, thanks to this. Bring it on!

  31. Re:... and they like it that way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Is this some new kind new kind of troll

    It's a new kind of troll. Apparently, someone wrote a bot that will scrub the highest rated comments from one story, and post them into another randomly chosen story.

    To what end, the mind boggles. But there you go.

    I suppose you could argue that you have the ownership of the original post, and so it can't be reposted without your permission; but that would be much harder to enforce with posts that are originally made by an AC, and it would be hard to stop even if you could demonstrate that you originally wrote the original content.

    What people do with too much time on their hands is pretty amazing, really. It's all I can to read slashdot, let alone write bots to vandalize it./p

  32. Re:and it goes on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic
    You'd think a lawyer would have been smart enough to read this.

    Quote:

    Whichever license you plan to use, the process involves adding two elements to each source file of your program: a copyright notice (such as "Copyright 1999 Linda Jones"), and a statement of copying permission, saying that the program is distributed under the terms of the GNU General Public License (or the Lesser GPL).

    A quick perusal of any GPL'd software in the world would have shown how full of shit the guy was.


  33. Re:Does this happen much? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Fascinating. But what is a "worm" or a "virus"? Did the article define those too?

  34. Re:What' the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    What we need is for Postfix to have a built in ability to report IP addresses to which it responds "take a flying leap", once per day, and for the top 1,000 of those IP addresses to be included in a report.

    As a safety measure, the IP address has to be reported by X number or percent of the participating Postfix hosts to be considered valid.

    Any IP address is added for a short period of time, say 72 hours, so if it's a machine that is hacked and quickly fixed the IP isn't blacklisted forever.

    It seems like a distributed, real-time system like this would be effective.

  35. Re:outrage! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    I was working on the mail server today, and going through logs tracking a clamav/amavis problem.

    I started to notice that...one...after...another...the buggers were connecting. We're not even a very big site (just got a bunch of mailing lists). The DNS names were xxx-yyy-zzz-aaa.(something).(insert european country code).

    They outnumbered legitimate connections easily 5:1 or more, and the sessions all consisted of:

    client: "HELO, I'm in your domain! Here, have some email"
    Postfix: "take a flying leap."

    client: "HELO, I'm in your domain! Here, have some email"
    Postfix: "take a flying leap."

    client: "HELO, I'm in your domain! Here, have some email"
    Postfix: "take a flying leap."

    Every single one would try and send between 3 and 5 messages before finally realizing it wasn't going to work, and disconnecting. It's irritating, because we do actually run a couple of DNS blacklists, but it seems a lot of european systems aren't on them.

    When are we going to stop taking the "oh, we'll just filter it" attitude? Feels like all we've accomplished in half a decade is to do spammer's work for them and make users complacent by hiding all this shit from them. It's a classic white elephant problem if I ever saw it.../p

  36. Re:Happens within the span of about five minutes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    There is no problem. Joe Hacker owns the copyright on the code he wrote, unless he signed it away. He did not give the copyright to Jack N. Box, so Jack N. Box's heirs do no have rights to that code. Those heirs do have rights to the code Jack N. Box wrote, which is only 10%. Company X can contact Jack N. Box's heirs for a different license, but they only have the right to that 10%. (And if they gave rights to everything they might be in trouble themselves for negotiating in bad faith since they sold rights they did not have)

    There is no problem here, except that Company X has a really hard time changing the license. In general the point of the GPL is to make it hard to change the license to something else, so this is intentionall. In fact if company X goes to Joe Hacker and gets rights to his code, they may be unable to use it if Jack N. Box's heirs decide to not give those rights up. In short a tiny minority can hold the majority to not changing the license. (Again, this is by design)

    Note that some people assign copyright to the Free Software Foundation. The advantage of this is the FSF will sue to make sure code they own is not misused. This saves Joe Hacker the effort of finding a lawyer when needed. The disadvantage is in theory someone can gain control of the FSF and sell rights (or just make a new version of the GPL that gives everything away), and there is nothing Joe Hacker can do. Most projects using the GNU license choose to not require code be turned over to the FSF to protect against a rouge FSF sometime in the future.


  37. Re:Most online shoppers simply niave.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Yes, as a zillion high rated comment already point out, there is no legal doubt that the author own the code. And a "copyright year name" statement is not needed, but anyway encouraged and common (the article actually also state that).

    However, the article is about damages, not ownership. If it is unclear to the defendant who the opposing legal party was, it may reduce the chance or size of damages awarded. At least in Holland. No question though, the defendant will be forced to stop the illegal distribution.

    Stopping the illegal distribution is what is most important to us, but a lawyer is usually paid to extract as many money as possible, so his point of view is obviously different.

  38. Re:Ever go to a frickin' grocery store? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    As ever there are lies, damn lies and statistics.

    China has a population of about 1.3 billion. The USA has a population of about 295 million. South Korea has a population of approximately 48 million, less than a fifth that of the US, and under 1/20th that of China, yet it has about half the number of zombies of the US.

    Proportionally South Korea is by far the worst offender on the list.

    How difficult is it to keep your OS up to date and run virus scanners?

    The "May Top 10" chart on CipherTrust's web site of course features the "European Union", yet on the same list we see Germany, France, UK and Spain, all member states of the EU.

  39. Re:Really? I don't believe it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    I for one welcome our new Zombie overlords.

  40. Re:and it goes on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    This just goes to show that no one knows where spam and zombies reside. Everyone's "research" (obviously riddled with bias) says it's some place else.

  41. Re:Yep by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Correction - the FSF doesn't urge people to assign copyright to them on anything and everything, as you imply. They require copyright assignments on official FSF projects, of course, but there are many other Free Software projects they neither have nor want copyright on.

    The stuff about french doctors doesn't seem to contribute to your post, and sounds a bit suspect, too.

  42. Re:What' the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Stanislaw Lem predicts it about 20-30 years ago in some of his novel.

  43. Re:Does this happen much? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    The zombies are a clear reference to the House of Lords, so the evil cleric must be the Blair Witch Project.

  44. Re:Discounts? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Back in the 1990s, Spam was a big problem. The problem was that a number of ISPs would ignore Spam complaints, or would even encourage spammers to be on their networks. Once enough ISPs refused to listen to complaints, Paul Vixie started the Realtime Blackhole List, which would allow people to find out if a given IP was blacklisted, and refused to receive email from a blacklisted IP.

    I worked at Netcom when we ended up on the RBL. We did not have strong Spam protection; for example, our credit card verifier did not contact the credit card company before giving someone internet access. Even after being placed on the RBL, management was unwilling to expend the resources needed to stop our Spam problem; they thought the RBL would just go away. Meanwhile, the number of people calling or emailing technical support doubled because they could not send mail increased (I helped make some graphs showing the increase in emails to tech support to convince management that this was a real problem). It took months for management to wake up, smell the coffee, and make it harder for spammers to get throw-away accounts on Netcom's network.

    (For NANOG regulars at the time: It was I who wrote the "Keman-bot")

    A similiar list needs to be set up; if a given ISP has zombies and does not cut off said zombies from the internet, the ISP needs to be blacklisted RBL style. Maybe then management will do something about the zonbie problem--such as cutting of zombie machines from the internet (redirecting all HTTP queries to a "You're a zombie so we cut you off page" for example).

  45. Re:Really? I don't believe it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    What kind of moron compares one country against a group of several countries? What kind of comparison is that? Look at the individual numbers:

    U.S. - 20%
    Germany - 6%
    France - 5%
    U.K. - 3%

    Only by lumping everyone together as "Europe" are they able to claim that the majority of zombies are not located in the U.S. Even though I live in the U.S., I find this article totally stupid.

  46. Re:common sales practice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    >> then we will be able to hold off our extinction for a few more years.

    We're not in danger of becoming extinct from bacteria resistance. We adapt too.

  47. Re:and it goes on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Not even accessible to a full-time carthief?

  48. Re:what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    from TFA:

    "Using a tool that can track zombie machines, CipherTrust found that 26 per cent of them were hosted in European countries, with most of them in Germany (six per cent), France (five per cent) and the UK (three per cent)."

    so now the article establied that the *most* infected country is Germany, with is 6%. now the immediate next paragraph:

    "The company's ZombieMeter found that hackers were hijacking around 172,009 computers every day. Approximately 20 per cent of those machines were based in the United States, and 15 per cent were found in China. CipherTrust did not provide details of where the attackers resided."

    and US account for TWENTY percent compare to Germany's SIX percent. Even China's FIFTEEN percent is higher. I don't mind it do a country by country comparation, or even a continent by continent. I wonder what's the overall percentange if you really compare it continent to continent. I wonder what's the overall percentage of Americas, Europe, and Asia is...

    but IMHO grouping Europe all together and compare it against nations like US and China is just wrong.


  49. Re:Be informed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    It's no secret that Heisenberg

  50. Re:Why fixed price retail is bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    I actually did RTFA. This basically seems like a neater way to make a Petri dish.

    He uses bacteria as 'ink', and presses the bacterial mold onto a sheet to produce a bacteria pattern.

    I'm not exactly sure why this is better or worse than simply pipetting bacteria into a large petri dish, though.

  51. Re:Bottom feeders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    First, if you look at the diagram for your Mozilla sidebar or Active Desktop.

  52. Re:Bottom feeders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Now I can get my [fake mail order] University Degree /and/ real [bacterial] culture diversity all on the same certificate.... just like if I had gone to Univeristy and dorm-hopped, or eaten cafeteria food.

  53. Re:Does this happen much? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    He takes a tip from the silicon chip makers and uses the same type of technology to etch a pattern in a wafer. Then he creates a mold (like a mask, not like the stuff growing in the crotches of slashbots) which he can use repeatedly as a printing template.

    Since a lot of bacteria grow resistant to antibiotics, it makes sense to use this kind of "printing press" to study how they create their protective biofilm. As a species, we are slowly succumbing to our own success at killing off bacteria. However the rise of super-bacteria that are immune to our medicines is a huge worry. If this type of research can shine some light on why these bacteria are so resistant and how we can control them to be less dangerous to us, then we will be able to hold off our extinction for a few more years.

  54. Re:Most online shoppers simply niave.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic
    Agreed, it looks more like someone's fantasy about what a 1940s era atomic weapon should look like than a real one.

    Is it possible it was a design "speculated" from spy reports from the allies? It does capture two crucial design decisions (gun assembly and plutonium core), but manages to mix them up in a single entity. Which would be an easy mistake to make if one was relying on shaky intelligence from someone close to the Manhattan project, but not too close.

    The design still looks approximated though, and does not take into account the scale or space requirements of a v2-type rocket.


  55. Re:Oddly enough... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    It seems a lot of interesting science happens at the spatial/topological/geometrical level.

    E.g. those bioplaques can be real killers. Models of bacteria that assume they are all evenly distributed in 2-space or 3-space really don't cut it.

    Same thing with blood vessels. They aren't solid tubes, like the plumbing in your house. There's all sorts of transverse stuff happening that doctors fail to model and take into consideration.

    Or materials science -- all the "edge effects" that people like to ignore, because they are necessarily messy.

    If this advance allows them to study different geometries of bacteria cheaply, that will be a big step -- they'll be able to run big batches of simulations of different layouts. Hopefully they'll get their models right and do better work.


  56. Re:common sales practice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    I can't possibly be the only one who immediately thought "game of life" ... can I?

    Too bad it'd never work - not unless you could find some REALLY weird bacteria, anyway.

  57. Re:Be informed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic
    remain unexploded for a long period, then detonate

    Like land mines in Vietnam and Cambodia?/p

  58. Re:Bottom feeders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    This is great! There might be hope after all! Maybe in 60 years the US will find diagrams of WMD in Iraq!

  59. Re:True offline as well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic
    several? hundreds of UXB's (Unexploded bombs) have been found in east London and the old industrial areas of the UK after blanket bombing during WWII.

    If you drop hundreds of thousands of various types of ordnance onto an industrialised area then as much as 20% will not explode. Even ordnance flung into Baghdad some 60 years later didn't all explode on impact.

    I doubt this was intentional.


  60. Re:2.51 percentage points? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Just remember not to use anti-bacterial soap on your bacterial printer. Otherwise, you will void the warrantry.

  61. Re:Time for that Near-Fatal Heart Attack Folks...N by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    ahh.. seems like the perfect application of P2P.. or at least massive mirroring: make the postfix clients aware of each other (or a bunch of their nearest neighbors) and mirror the list. If one goes down, send the request to another one. Check all neighbors for updates and new neighbors every so often and merge the new data into the local list, deleting expired changes. New addresses could get pushed to the web by simply ammending their own list, when their neighbors d/l it they will propogate the changes. It doesn't matter if everyone has the whole list at any point, as long as the lists propogating through are reasonably complete.

  62. Re:Rephrased.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    it's a neat process. before i read the article i'd pictured an inkjet-esque approach. probably a good thing they didn't go that way --- can you imagine how much consumables would cost? to say nothing of issues related to poor quality drivers...

  63. Re:Does this happen much? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic
    I am currently reading Gitta Sereny's biography of Albert Speer (Albert Speer: His Battle with Truth), who was Hitler's architect, then armaments minister during WW2.

    He claims to have stopped the scientists from developing the bomb any further - not because he was opposed to the concept if such a weapon (he certainly wasn't). The reason was that it was clear it would need much more time than was available in order to complete the work.

    What was considered feasible was the idea of an "energy producing Uranium motor" for use in vehicles, and research was switched in that direction around 1944.

    Antony Beevor's excellent book on the fall of Berlin also makes it clear that the Germans' nuclear research facilities were well known to the Russian's and were a major influence on Stalin's tactical decisions regarding Berlin. He was determined to obtain the fruits of this research.

    The book also makes clear that Heisenburg did not try to sabotage the programme but was eager to succeed. This view is also backed up by the famous meeting between Heisenburg and Nils Bohr in Copenhagen in 1941 and Hesinburg's views at that time.

    Of course even though one new where Heisenburg was in 1941 you could never tell what direction he was taking at that time.


  64. Re:what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic
    I like the novel application of existing technologies. He's using agarose medium, pipetting, and casting into a photolithographic mold.

    One thing in the article that is a bit deceptive is that the article says that one can print with details as small as one micrometer . . . the size of a single bacterium. This may technically be true, but I doubt that controlling which individual bacterium are transferred (printed) or not is possible. And the neither the technique of pipetting bacteria nor regrowing bacteria on the agarose media is likely to have a resolution of one micrometer. Though the postulated one micrometer resolution may be possible, it is for all practical purposes impossible.


  65. Will that's ok, the US Dollar will collapse anyhow by argoff · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    This is sorta off topic, and I wrote this essay for another forum, but I think it's relavent anyhow because people should know why prices are very likely to be 20 to 40 times higher before the year is out.....

    The Coming Collapse of the Dollar
    and will FOSS Save the Day

    Yeah, I know, the title sounds like gloom and doom. But seriously, I want
    people to read this, so they can understand the big picture making it
    more likely that they can improve and secure their life over the long
    term. I am not an investment adviser, and I don't get paid for this -
    so take things here with a grain of salt please.

    Money is supposed to be a medium of exchange and a store of value. And
    while it's true that money is still used as a medium of exchange, US money
    at least, has not been good as a store of value since the 1970's when the
    US dollar became 100% unlinked from any commodities (like gold). Well
    I take that back, for some periods the dollar has been a great store
    of value. Which is surprising, because other countries that had tried this
    trick ended up having hyper inflation as their currencies became worth not
    much more than the cost of ink and paper. But in the USA this has not
    happened for several reasons:

    1st: A LOT of people are used to using dollars as a store of value and
    exchange, so it takes a lot to change that way of life.

    2nd: (and most importantly) even if a US citizen does all his transactions
    and makes all his earnings in other currencies, he still must eventually
    convert any gained value to US dollars to pay taxes (or go to jail), which
    creates a demand for dollars propping up it's value and keeping it from
    collapsing.

    3rd: The good citizens of the USA have had large productivity increases for
    long periods of time, which has a tendency to disguise how badly the
    dollar has lost it's value. If your bang for the buck is half of what it
    used to be, but the cost of making your widgets has also gone down to
    half of what it used to be. Then you are less likely to notice that you
    were robbed of half of what you would have had otherwise. Did I say that
    right?

    BTW: they even have a name for this level of inflation, it's called the
    "core inflation". In my own technically illiterate terms, it's the
    inflation point at where the economy doesn't panic over inflation because
    efficiency gains disguise the loss of value. And it's no coincidence that
    oil, commodities, and food prices (that is "volatile" prices that are less
    responsive to productivity changes) are often excluded from inflation indexes.

    4th: The dollar is "technically" not just printed up like other fiat
    currencies (as they are often called). It is "loaned" out to banks (by the
    fed) who, in turn loan it out to people and businesses, who in turn
    circulate the money in the economy. So in the big picture, the need to
    pay back dollar debt also creates a demand that keeps the currency from
    collapsing.

    5th: At this point, so many institutions and investors rely on the dollar
    that they can't afford to let it collapse. So they will go through great
    measures to promote it's value even if they perceive it to be worth less
    than it is.

    6th: Other currencies do the same thing, and often aren't all that great
    either. Factually, the USA is big, powerful, more business friendly,
    less corrupt, and more transparent, than many other governments. When
    people seek a place to store their wealth, they will more often than not
    choose the dollar over other currencies for those reasons.

    So are those compelling reasons to use the dollar, or what? Well, all of
    these reasons really translate to: people can't find an easy way
    to squeeze out of using and relying on the dollar. However, when it comes
    money and wealth, people are very creative and determined, so over time
    the dollar sill looses value in spite of all these pressures. And over long
    periods of time, it

  66. Re:Bottom feeders by Cylix · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    The trick to fighting fat kids is endurance! They don't have it... so you have to draw the fight out.

    So needless to say, when I managed to find myself in an encounter, I had to end the event quickly.

    Know thy own limitations!

    (I did drop most of the weight though... roughly 30lbs to go)

    --
    "You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
  67. Evil Scripts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    are the copy/paste scripts from other articles running again?

  68. Re:Prices I understand, but availability?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Germany invested a lot in rocketry research, and the V2 wasn't the only thing the had designed.

    Ballistic missiles are known by everyone because of the cold war hype, but with that era's technology and bearing in mind that they didn't need to go all the way to america with it, a cruise missile is where it's at. I.e., a rocket with wings. You don't have to launch the thing upwards with a rocket to hit Britain from France, you can just as well launch it horizontally or on a flat arc and use wings to provide the needed lift. Like the V-1 did, for example.

    And they did research and build just that too: rockets with wings.

    The Me-163 Komet for example was an interceptor aircraft with a liquid-fuel rocket (not turbojet) engine. It reached a speed of approximately 600 mph (almost 1000 km/h) and had a maximum range of about 80 km.

    Nasty thing and more dangerous for the pilot than for the enemy, but to chuck a small bomb without a pilot across the channel it would have worked outstandingly.

    And I have no doubt that, if they absolutely needed to chuck a 4 ton bomb (the weight of the hiroshima bomb), they could have slapped 2, 3 or 4 of those engines on an airframe with bigger wings.

    It's a lot easier to design such a one-shot contraption, when you don't have to worry about being able to land safely, or about structural damage during flight. It can, for all you care, come apart at the end, as long as it does it on the other side of the channel.

  69. In Darwin... by Don'tTreadOnMe · · Score: 0, Offtopic
    Darwin didn't know about trolls.

    "In Darwin Australia, Intelligent Designers troll for _you_!"

    No more coffee for me...

  70. Re:Rephrased.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Is there an inverse Godwin's Law? "Any discussion of the Nazis will inexorably tend towards a discussion of Godwin's Law"

  71. Re:Don't everyone volunteer at once by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic
    It may be too difficult to read given the poor-quality reproduction on the BBC article, but if possible could somebody translate the labels on that diagram?

    From what I can tell, it looks to be a straightforward version of the "gun design" used in the Hiroshima bomb, which a) is so obvious that I think even I could have figured out the basic concept, and b) won't work with real plutonium as Pu-240 contamination will cause the weapon to blow itself to bits before enough of the plutonium has fissioned. So, even if it was true, they had a very long way to go before they could have made a bomb.

    An implosion design, by contrast, would be a much bigger deal, though as I understand it just having the idea is a very long way from making it work.

    Two final things: one of the reasons why the Nazis never got very far on their nuclear weapons project is that they could never get a reactor working; one of the key reasons for that was their supply of heavy water was kept from them by Norwegian partisans working with British SOE. Their story is a pretty amazing one.

    And finally, while it's not possible to make a plutonium gun bomb now; it should be possible in the very distant future. Pu-240 (the contaminant) has a much shorter half-life (about 6500 years) than Pu-239 (about 24,100 years). So, over (lots of) time, the proportion of the Pu-240 should gradually reduce. So maybe these Germans were just a little ahead of their time.../p

  72. Re:common sales practice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    I'm surprised there isn't a RBL for zonbies yet
    There is

  73. Re:Really? I don't believe it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Since the link in your post goes the website of a fictional organisation that Doctor Who belongs to, perhaps the moderation of your post as 'informative' was a little misplaced?

  74. Re:Bottom feeders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic
    It may be too difficult to read given the poor-quality reproduction on the BBC article, but if possible could somebody translate the labels on that diagram?

    From what I can tell, it looks to be a straightforward version of the "gun design" used in the Hiroshima bomb, which a) is so obvious that I think even I could have figured out the basic concept, and b) won't work with real plutonium as Pu-240 contamination will cause the weapon to blow itself to bits before enough of the plutonium has fissioned. So, even if it was true, they had a very long way to go before they could have made a bomb.

    An implosion design, by contrast, would be a much bigger deal, though as I understand it just having the idea is a very long way from making it work.

    Two final things: one of the reasons why the Nazis never got very far on their nuclear weapons project is that they could never get a reactor working; one of the key reasons for that was their supply of heavy water was kept from them by Norwegian partisans working with British SOE. Their story is a pretty amazing one.

    And finally, while it's not possible to make a plutonium gun bomb now; it should be possible in the very distant future. Pu-240 (the contaminant) has a much shorter half-life (about 6500 years) than Pu-239 (about 24,100 years). So, over (lots of) time, the proportion of the Pu-240 should gradually reduce. So maybe these Germans were just a little ahead of their time.../p

  75. Re:Price discrimination by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    If you look at the diagram on this page, there seems to be what looks like a date on the upper right side. It seems to say "Halteose fur AS/12/44". Any ideas what that means?

    Also, the associated article states that the bomb appears to be a hybrid fission/fusion device, which was far more advanced than the two fission-only devices used on Japan./p

  76. Re:most online users... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic
    Everytime random lawyer X says something about Open Source without doing a trivial amount of fact checking it gets reported on Slashdot. Braindead news. If Lucie Guibault, assistant professor of intellectual-property law at the Institute for Information Law in Amsterdam had bothered to go read "How to use the GPL or LGPL" she would have noted that the way to use the GPL is to state ON YOUR SOURCE CODE that it is copyright to you and that it is released under the TERMS OF THE GPL. Obviously if you don't do this you're not releasing your source code under the GPL, but in that case you're giving your source code out under NO LICENSE which means that others have NO RIGHTS to reuse the code.

    Then to point out the even greater boneheadedness of this story, let's say that EvilMegaCorp went to court and said "oh, we didn't think you owned this copyright, we thought the FSF did" and the judge agreed, the FSF would be in court the next day saying "no, we didn't write it, we wrote the license, but if you'd like to name us as the author of the software we'll gladly defend the copyright on it."

    So STFU and get back to teaching students how to swindle./p

  77. Re:Discounts? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    I'm surprised there isn't a RBL for zonbies yet
    There is

  78. Re:Bottom feeders by kzinti · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    "cop-car beater"

    It's got a cop motor: a 440 cubic inch plant. It's got cop tires, cop suspensions, cop shocks. It's a model made before catalytic converters so it'll run good on regular gas. What do you say, is this the new Bluesmobile, or what? - Elwood to Jake, The Blues Brothers