Distributing Windows Programs to Linux Desktops?

prell asks: "Our company has approximately 250 Linux desktops, and an array of Linux servers. Recently, we've been presented with the possibility of migrating all or most of these machines to Windows to support one industry-specific application, and we do not want this to happen. Coming to mind immediately were: Wine and CrossOver Office; some sort of multi-user VNC setup; Ndiyo; and VMWare. Keeping in mind that the desktop machines are low-spec (~350MHz CPUs on average), what are our options? How can we preserve our Linux install-base in the presence of a non-canonical Windows program?"

Comments

What is the ONE application?

[dpilot]

What is the ONE application that's about to drive this much churn in your shop? Perhaps rather talking about minor things like preferences and productivity, start talking about the cost of replacing 250 low-spec desktops with new machines, as well as any upgrades needed for your array of servers.

Since you probably can't tell what the ONE application is that's worth turning your whole IT infrastructure upside-down for, can you give a few of its properties? Is it a heavily interactive communications program? Is it a simulator? Before anyone can evaluate alternatives like VNC, WINE or VMWare, more information is needed.

run some numbers

[fred fleenblat]

Rolling out windows isn't an option on 350MHz machinery. You'd have to buy some new boxes.
Assuming you just get some cheapo dells...

250 desktops * $400 = $100,000.

Oh, they wanted to run Office apps while they're at it? Assuming you can get some volume discounts that could be another $50,000.

Now you have a bunch of windows boxes but no active directory or shared file servers? You probably have some decent spec servers you could use for these, but you still have to pay for the software and CALs. I don't even know, but let's say another 10,000.

Hmmm, why are there so many smtp packets floating around my network? Oh shit I forgot anti-virus software for everyone. That's gotta be $50/user so there goes something like $12,500. Stuff still gets through because 5% of the time people click OK in IE, so you have to hire a guy that does nothing but disinfect machines all day for $25/hour + benefits. There goes $75,000 per year.

Okay, whew now great we can use this industry specific app...all it cost was a QUARTER MILLION DOLLARS.

Re:run some numbers

[Snotboble_]

And that's not all of the cost. Your numbers assume that there are no existing Linux apps to migrate to the Windows platform.
So, to make things more interesting, you'll need to either
1) Add LTSP servers to run the legacy apps (a guestimate is a $10,000 server per 25-30 users) plus X Server licenses (say, $50 per PC if you don't want to fiddle with Cygwin),
2) Port the applications to Windows,
3) Provide users with an extra PC if they cannot use 1) or 2) for some reason.

Depending on the outcome, it can very quickly add another $100,000-$150,000 to the total cost of migrating the desktops to Windows. And that's not even counting salary expenses.

So we're now up to a migration cost of around $2,000 - per seat!

Now for some other numbers..
In a company which is doing fairly OK, the gross turnover per employee per year is around $150,000 (depending on the industry; assuming a generic production business with some R&D). Net revenue is around 5%. That's $7,500.
In my humble opinion, there has got to be a _very_ compelling reason to want to migrate 250 users to a Windows desktop when the cost is approaching half a million $$ and blowing a third of a fiscal years net revenue!

(and yes, I know if's possible to write it off over several years, but it's still bucks out of the pocket right now)

Re:winframe servers and rdesktop

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows Terminal Server would be less problematic. Citrix opens up an entire can of worms. I have been running a farm of about 20 Metaframe servers for two years now. The additional features it brings to Terminal Server are simply not worth the trouble.

The short list:

1. Citrix servers have to be rebooted every night or they exibit wildly unpredictable behavior.

2. Each Windows 32-bit client that connects to a Metaframe server uploads its print driver(s). If one of these print drivers disagrees with the server, the client either (a) can't print (b) can't connect (c) crashes the server.

3. Citrix charges $400 per tech support incident. The first ten minutes of the conversation is spent by Citrix telling you about the items they will NOT help you with.

4. Their products are exorbitantly priced.

5. They still haven't got the clipboard-between-apps thing figured out. It works sometimes(:

6. Few companies write their applications with Metaframe in mind. Most line-of-business applications require some workarounds to run properly on Metaframe. Particularly, the ones that want administrative privileges.

And remember, you are going to spend at least three of your evenings at the data center patching servers every month. One night for Microsoft's regular patches. Another night for the Microsoft patches that unbreak what the previous patches broke. And another night for the Citrix patches.

My opinion: Citrix Cucks!

My recommendation, if you have to run this app, is to use a Windows Terminal Server without Citrix. It's not perfect but will be much less of a headache than Metaframe.

Or just find an application that runs on *nix.

Note: Of course, "4.0" is "supposed" to fix a lot of these problems. I'll try it next year, if I have to...

Re:It would help....

[IamTheRealMike]

Is it a software publisher that is approachable? Would they be willing to consider doing a compile of the application using winelib? That is make a win32 exe that runs on linux natively.

This is definitely an option. In fact you don't even need vendor co-operation, CodeWeavers can make apps run without access to the source code.

I work for CodeWeavers and I'll say now that for 250 licenses we can put a few hours into making a custom app work for you. For exact details you'd need to contact jwhite@codeweavers.com. How much effort it'd take to get the app to Gold status depends on a lot of things. It may require no effort at all, in which case your problem is already solved. Congratulations. You have a zero cost way to deploy this app.

It may be that the app basically does work, but it's not reliable or it suffers visual glitches. This is the sort of app we can often make work in return for guaranteed sales of X licenses, even without the source code.

It may be that the app won't start or won't install so you can't tell, but we can coax it into working and give you an evaluation. We have 4 developers who specialise in installers (2 in MSI, 2 in InstallShield respectively), so this is definitely possible. We usually do "kick the tires" evaluations either cheaply or for free.

Basically, the best solution for your desktop users is going to be a Wine/CrossOver based solution. The app will run at native or nearly native speed, you won't need an app server, it will integrate nicely with their desktop and appear in the menus, copy and paste will work etc. And you don't need any Windows licenses. Seriously, drop us a line.