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Arctic Warming Drying Up Lakes

kingofalaska writes "An accelerating Arctic warming trend over the past quarter of a century has dramatically dried up more than a thousand large lakes in Siberia probably because the permafrost beneath them has begun to thaw, according to a paper to be published the journal Science." From the article at the LA Times: "About 125 of the 1,170 shrunken lakes disappeared altogether, and most are now considerably smaller than the study's baseline of 40 hectares, or about 99 acres, the researchers found. If Arctic temperatures continue to rise, the scientists said, many of the lakes in high northern latitudes, where they are ubiquitous, could eventually disappear."

8 of 377 comments (clear)

  1. Re:This != Global warming by gowen · · Score: 3, Informative
    What I meant is, global warming is not the worldwide effect people shape it up to be
    While those atmospheric temperature changes (which are believed to be anthropogenic) tend to be localised, the effect of them need not be. The earth's climate is probably the most complicated non-linear system ever studied in any depth and any argument discussion of it based on global averages of anything is extremely unlikely to be very rewarding.
    Antarctica goes through cycles every hundred/thousand years
    It does. That's not actually a very good reason not to care about inducing a cycle artificially, and one a much shorter timescale.
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  2. Re:This != Global warming by IllForgetMyNickSoonA · · Score: 3, Informative

    You got it all wrong. What he was saying, is that the absence of the sea level rise is NOT an indicative that the polar ice isn't melting away.

    Gosh, he even said we were observing some of the largest floating ice formations disintegrate. What do you think made them do so? Ice drilling polar bears?

  3. Increasing? by Zonnald · · Score: 4, Informative
    To quote a paragraph from tfa;

    By contrast, the scientists found that in Siberian areas where the ground below is still permanently frozen, the number of lakes actually increased by about 4% and total lake area grew by about 12% over the last three decades.

    Interestingly they neglected to indicate how many hectares this 12% represented.

    I guess that wasn't as dramatic a headline.

    Arctic Warming Is Drying Up Lakes, Study Finds, but some lakes actually growing

  4. Residents of Arctic region already feeling effects by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Please see The Arctic: Earth's Early Warning System "The Inuit are already suffering dramatic changes to their Arctic environment, warns a native leader... unpredictable weather, melting of permafrost and glaciers, decreasing sea ice, as well as the presence of new species such as barn owls, robins and mosquitoes never seen before by the Inuit people."

  5. Re:you don't know what you are talking about by elbobo · · Score: 4, Informative

    nobody knows "absolutely and definitely" whether there is global warming or, if it exists, whether it is due to human activity.

    Actually I think it's not at all in dispute as to whether we're experiencing any global warming. I believe that's been conclusively established. What some still heavily debate are the causes of said warming.

    There's a strong correlation between atmospheric CO2 and warming and well understood atmospheric interactions of CO2, but some try to point the finger elsewhere or back to natural patterns.

    What's truly astounding is the massively increasing level of outright propaganda on the subject. The scientists appear to be being left behind and the propagandists (sponsored by private industry) are taking over the show. Do a google for "CO2" -- it's a real eye opener.

  6. Re:This != Global warming by gowen · · Score: 4, Informative
    I have a question since your a geoligist or whatnot.
    I write CFD codes for polar oceans, so I can only answer your question in broadest terms.

    i) Climate is not weather
    ii) The climate is exceedingly complex, and global warming does not mean a uniform temperature increase across the globe.
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  7. Re:Here we go again... by windows · · Score: 3, Informative

    I wouldn't say the climatologists are particularly foolish. I am a meteorologist. Many aspects of meteorology are largely misunderstood by the media and general public. The concept of "global warming" is one of the most common misunderstandings.

    Without a doubt, the climate of the Earth is rapidly changing. Records show this very clearly. This is not a point for debate.

    Also there is no doubt that the composition of the atmosphere is changing. Once again, records of this show the change very clearly. This is not up for debate.

    The problem comes up when showing a link between the two and establishing causation. It is impossible to deny that human activities change the atmosphere and have some effect on the weather and climate. The actual amount of effect, however, is unknown. There are many cycles which naturally occur in the weather and in the climate. While some of these cycles last only a few months or a few years, such as ENSO (El Nino Southern Oscillation), some cycles may last decades or longer. We are aware of cycles such as ENSO because it only takes a few years for an El Nino to transition to a La Nina (which actually lasts longer than the El Nino phase) and back into an El Nino. There are probably many other cycles in the climate that we are not even aware of. Keeping this in mind, it is entirely possible that we are merely in one phase of a naturally occurring cycle which will reverse itself at some point.

    Many factors play a role in the climate around the Earth. These include the atmospheric composition, albedo, ocean circulation, solar output, and many other things. While changes in the atmosphere can cause climate change, changes in these other factors may enhance or oppose the changes. One of the most famous climate changes of the recent past was the little ice age. This period of cooling wasn't caused by human activity. Instead, it is believed that solar output decreased and had a very significant effect on the Earth's climate.

    During much of the Earth's past, the Earth has been dominated by either tropical or polar climates. The period of balance we are in right now is actually somewhat unusual. Given the history of the Earth, it is hardly unreasonable to expect the climate would once again trend toward one of the two extremes. This has occurred for many millions of years without any influence of humans. There is no reason to expect that this behavior would cease because humans now inhabit the Earth.

    Global warming is a very misleading term. There are many questions about how global climate change, if caused by humans, would actually occur. People have even speculated about possible global cooling. One theory, which some evidence seems to dispute, suggests that "global warming" will cause an increase in clouds. The increased albedo from the clouds will counteract the warming and might even cause cooling. This theory is disputed, but is one of many theories about how climate change, if caused by humans, might play out.

    None of these arguments are meant to say we shouldn't scale back emissions. While we don't know if human activities are a major player in global climate change, we also don't know that they aren't playing a huge role in it. Furthermore, it is in our interests to minimize our changes to the environment and to the atmosphere because the theory of humans causing global climate change is plausible. It is in everyone's interest to reduse emissions, anyways, because many of the chemicals entering our atmosphere and hydosphere are toxic. I'm all for finding cleaner sources of energy and for cutting back on human activities such as clearing forested areas.

    There are plenty of good reasons to reduce emissions and protect our environment without resorting to scare tactics. While you may have found an example of a "climatologist" making fallacious arguments, many of the climatologists disputing "global warming" caused by human activities aren't all that crazy.

  8. Re:MSM HYPE by Jafafa+Hots · · Score: 4, Informative

    junkscience.com is run by steven milloy. Steven milloy was a lobbyist who was paid by Phillip Morris to create a similar "group" to put forth the idea that second hand smoke is harmless.

    Now he has this site up, and though he refuses to disclose his funding, he has in the past received money from oil company interests to lobby for them and do PR for them.

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