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Holy Men in Tights! Academic Superhero Conference

Malfourmed writes "The University of Melbourne's Cinema Studies Program, School of Art History, Cinema, Classics & Archaeology is hosting a four day conference (and fancy dress ball and movie programme) on superhoeroes and supervillains. The interdisciplinary conference will address the varying roles, identities, and social functions that these superheroes serve. Topics include censorship; industry and franchise differentiation (eg DC vs Marvel); mythology; the female superhero ("It has been a very much male-centred universe," co-convener Saige Walton said. "They need some more chicks."); ethnicity, class and race; diverse media formats (cinema, comics, computer games, television) ; the resurgence in the cult of superpowers in recent cinema; super-auteurs (eg Frank Miller, Alan Moore, Tezuka Osamu, Grant Morrison); fan culture; the science and physics of the superhero; ancient superheroes; and the 'hero' who isn't 'super'."

24 of 301 comments (clear)

  1. you know it is late... by Jesse_132 · · Score: 3, Funny

    When you think you misread the title of the article, then realize no you didn't... it is what /. posts at night when all good geeks are in bed.

  2. Women in comic books by Dancin_Santa · · Score: 5, Interesting

    What always makes me laugh is how otakus try to justify their objectification of women in comics as somehow empowering to women. By cladding the female characters in skin-tight suits that leave nothing to the imagination and giving them powers, they are somehow less objectified than you'd assume at first glance. Oh no, they are totally powerful, according to the geeks.

    Of course, at no point are they ever in charge, in normal clothes, homely, or out of the control of some male superhero.

    I've jacked off to Rogue in her undies many times, so I ought to know a thing or two about objectifying comic book women. That doesn't excuse the industry for its blatant subjection of women, though, it only reinforces the stereotype of geeks as misogynists.

    1. Re:Women in comic books by Dancin_Santa · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, but the authors are also males and are projecting their conception of a "strong male" into their artwork. It means rugged looks, broad shoulders, muscular physique.

      When they project their impression of "strong female", we get diminutive height, waspy waist, large breasts, well-shaped vulva, and perfect skin. They have confused (or purposefully replaced) strong with sexy.

      So only sexy female superheroes exist. Unsexy females can't possibly exist because it would shatter the geek audience's preconceived notions of what a strong female looks like.

      They celebrate the male characters by drawing them in that way, yet they demean the female characters by the same drawing techniques. It's not something that can be cured overnight, but it is something that ought to be taken note of and resisted.

    2. Re:Women in comic books by poopdeville · · Score: 4, Funny

      As a male with a sickly gray "ethnic" look, narrow shoulders, and flabby physique (meaning man boobs and a fat ass), I feel demeaned by comic book artists.

      --
      After all, I am strangely colored.
    3. Re:Women in comic books by master_p · · Score: 3, Informative

      hey have confused (or purposefully replaced) strong with sexy.

      Actually 'sexy' means 'biologically strong'. A female is perceived as sexy because her body shape 'promises' healthy children, and thus survival of the genes. The same goes for men.

    4. Re:Women in comic books by meringuoid · · Score: 3, Informative
      otakus

      Otaku. One otaku, two otaku, three otaku, four. It's a Japanese word, and so it doesn't change in the plural.

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    5. Re:Women in comic books by Master+of+Transhuman · · Score: 4, Interesting


      You haven't read many comics lately, have you?

      The women in X-Men and a number of other comics from Marvel and others are not exactly sex slaves (unless you've read the X-rated X-Men comic some knockoff did). Rogue might be a bit stereotyped, but Storm faced down Wolverine several times with authority - and Logan is about as macho a superhero as it gets.

      Besides, this is anti-male feminist bullshit. Every woman (except maybe Andrea Dworkin, who's a total loss anyway) wants to be a sex goddess and every man wants to be a sex god. And the psychology behind this goes a lot deeper than the surface motivations attributed to either sex by the feminists (or by male misogynists). Without some comprehension of human and cultural evolution and primate neuroscience anything said about this is likely to be bullshit.

      --
      Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
    6. Re:Women in comic books by Mant · · Score: 3, Informative

      People like to see attractive people in their entertainment, just look at Films or TV, or even many books. Comic book heroes are drawn to be attractive, both male and female. In comic books people are usually either attractive or disfigured. Unsexy characters of either sex are rare unless they are just supporting characters. Just like TV, books, films etc.

      This isn't about women in comics, it is about people in popular entertainment.

      Muscular men are usually considered attractive, muscular women are not. So the men get exaggerated pecs and abs, and the women exaggerated boobs and waist. Equal treatment really, emphasise what is considered attractive. I don't see sexy women in comics demeaning women any more than sexy men in comics demeans men. Cheese/Beef-cake all round.

      They are projecting attractive/sexy, not "strong", it's just for men that often translates as "muscular". In the superhero genre though muscular doesn't mean much. Physical strength isn't about how muscular you are but superpowers (some super strong characters are muscular, but some aren't), and real character strength is about, well strength of character which is completely unrelated.

      Both lots are put in revealing and/or skin tight costumes. Treatment here seems pretty equal, make them look good. The difference is society put more pressure on women to "look good", so guys reading comics don't feel bad about all these toned hunks.

      Now it is true that historically female super heroes have been somewhat second string. The big companies Marvel and DC go back a way, and a lot of their heroes are from a time when attitudes between the sexes were different. When female heroes were introduced they were often knockoffs and often sidekicks of male characters (batwoman, batgirl, supergirl etc).

      That hasn't been so true for a while though, check out stuff like Catwomen, or Birds of Prey for strong women in charge. Wasp has been chairperson of the Avengers, Storm field leader of the X-Men. Step outside the big two and you can find more independent and strong super heroines, although yes they will look sexy, becuase we expect that of both sexes in our entertainment.

    7. Re:Women in comic books by Zacha · · Score: 3, Funny

      I thought Andrea Dworkin was sexy.

  3. Can I say that? by NitsujTPU · · Score: 3, Interesting

    "It has been a very much male-centred universe," co-convener Saige Walton said. "They need some more chicks."

    Interestingly, a male would lose some edge saying that.

    I salute you Saige, and your message. I just wish that wording the message the same, in my shoes, as a man, wouldn't get me an unsavory label.

  4. so I says to the guy I says by aendeuryu · · Score: 5, Funny

    So he says to me he says, "Do you want to be baaaaaad?" And I say, "Yeah baby YEAH! Surf's up space ponies! We're making gravy WITHOUT THE LUMPS!!! AAAAAAAAAAAhahahahahaHAAAAAA!!!"

  5. Ethnicity in comics? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny
    "You got cracker farm-boy Luke Skywalker: Nazi poster-boy, blond hair, blue eyes. And then you've got Darth Vader, the blackest brother in the galaxy. A Nubian god --"

    "-- What's a Nubian?"

  6. Holy Men in Tights? by kingofalaska · · Score: 4, Funny
    For some reason, it seems more like many of these 'superheros' in the comics are wearing their underwear on the outside of their tights. That raises so many questions, not the least of which would be: are they wearing 2 pairs of underwear?

    History tells us that many of the Celts went into battle naked. This was disconcerting to their foes. I wonder how popular That comic would be?

    On another note, "Holy Men in Tights!" sounds like the next scandal.

    The King

    Rural Alaska nuclear power gets legislative backing

  7. Holy men? by Ponzicar · · Score: 5, Funny

    When I saw "Holy men in tights", I thought it was about another Catholic sex abuse scandal.

  8. Obligatory link by Vo0k · · Score: 4, Funny

    http://www.superdickery.com/

    Superheroes being dicks.
    And other stuff so amazing it... sucks.

    --
    Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
  9. Batman is the best superhero AND comic. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Bruce Wayne is a normal guy that everybody can relate to. He has no special powers to rely on; only the technology that his wealth affords him. He keeps in shape through rigorous training and is skilled in martial arts. He is a self-made superhero. None of that bullshit radioactive nonsense (what superheor ISN'T brought into existence by some type of radioactivity?). Gotham is a dark, lonely, unforgiving place. I think the animated series captured it the best, although the Dark Knight graphic novel was pretty good. Batman embodies what a superhero should be, and yet he doesn't play by the rules. He wasn't "gifted" or "chosen"; he took it upon himself to make a difference in a cruel world, and to strike back and get revenge. Batman is the best superhero because he is the most human.

    1. Re:Batman is the best superhero AND comic. by Master+of+Transhuman · · Score: 4, Interesting


      Wolverine wasn't irradiated, and except for the Adamantium in his bones, and his mutant healing power, and highly developed senses, he's probably one of the more "human" superheroes.

      I can't count Daredevil since he was irradiated - although later it was revealed that actually had nothing to do with his supersenses.

      There are probably hundreds of non-irradiated superheroes, and probably hundreds of strictly human ones as well.

      But you're probably right that Batman was the FIRST (or nearly so) of the strictly human ones (if you don't count myths and legends, but only comics.)

      But to pick a superhero because he is most human is to underestimate the importance of the genre. The genre is nothing more than a modern manifestation of the human desire for a Transhuman existence. Therefore it is necessary that even the most human of superheroes be so superior to the average human (even Captain America can press 800 lbs which very few real humans can do) that they stand as a symbol of divinity. Even your Batman is not strictly human, both because of his technology and because of his vast experience - and that apparent inhuman nature is something he specifically trades on to intimidate his enemies.

      OTOH, Superman, although a godlike entity, is represented in the comics as almost absurdly human, even to the point of being absurdly AMERICAN. I haven't read the stories in recent years, so they may have changed him, but I doubt it. His superpowers still make him a divinity, but DC went to great lengths to make him acceptable to humans.

      Marvel did the same thing with their "teenage-angst superheroes" like Spiderman - which is why I never was as attracted to Spiderman as I was many other Marvel characters. Fortunately, they also provided seriously powerful entities as well - the success of the character Thanos - who is truly a demi-god and has actually BEEN a genuine divinity at least twice - and has been converted from a pure villain to an ambiguous character - is an example.

      Even many of the Marvel supervillains have been altered to make them almost superheroes - Doctor Doom (my main man!) and Magneto, as well as Thanos, are examples. These characters tend to exaggerate human failings to a degree that makes them almost divine - but still understandable to humans, just like the gods of human myth such as Zeus or Odin (not to forget that even those gods are part of the Marvel pantheon.)

      Superheroes and supervillains are about being "super" - which means more than human. And that is the bottom line to the literary genre.

      --
      Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
    2. Re:Batman is the best superhero AND comic. by MilenCent · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Bruce Wayne is a normal guy that everybody can relate to. He has no special powers to rely on; only the technology that his wealth affords him.

      Riddle on this a bit: Not to intentionally drag issues of class struggle into the whole thing, but it *is* a fact that Bruce Wayne's extreme maxi-mega-wealth is almost as unreachable, to the average Joe-crimefighter-wannabe, as actual super powers are. He didn't earn it; he was born into riches. Extremely deep pockets is about the closest thing to an actual super power, more than great martial arts ability, more than inventing skill, more than being a supertaster, that exists in this world.

      Further: what's the difference between a young Bruce Wayne growing up to become: a crime fighter, the world's greatest detective, and an ultimately good guy, and a young Bruce Wayne growing up to become: yet another idle playboy with way too much money (with all the society-warping power that provides), maybe not explictly bad, but not over concerned with other people?

      Often it takes something seriously bad to happen to a person to break him out of his limited perspective and into a large view of the world. Which isn't to say that it is right that those things happen, nor that it always works that way. But often it's unavoidable, and often it does.

  10. Radiation and the superhero by BlightThePower · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...its to do with time when most of the famous characters were created I think, there was a great deal of interest, and post 1945, collosal anxiety about radiation. I expect to see more modern creations having something to do with genetic modification and perhaps nanotechnology in their origin stories. These things don't necessarily happen by accident, I understand Stan Lee was thinking of issues of race and prejudice when he came up with idea of the X-men as being mutants persecuted for being who and what they were born as. Professor Xavier can be seen as a sort of Martin Luther King to Mangento's Malcolm X. In more recent times I've had the suspicion that this form has been reworked slightly to have more resonances with regard to society's treatment of homosexuality (I definitely got that feeling in the second film in the scene where, was it Iceman(?), goes home and his parents get upset when they find out what he is. Would appear to mirror many a "coming out" story).

    This reflection of anxieties in popular art forms as a way of exploring or dealing with them is fairly well noted; for example, Bram Stoker's Dracula has an underlying theme of fear of supressed female sexuality, whereas Frankenstein is clearly all about fear of science. Its all the same thing really.

    As an aside another reason Batman wins over his only DC rival, Superman, for readers internationally is that Superman is a little overly wrapped in the stars and stripes (of course "Red Son" had much fun playing with that aspect the strip) to the extent where his popularity waxes and wanes with regard to how people feel about the USA. He was big in the 1980s when American culture was at its zenith of being "cool" in Europe. Right now nobody wants to know really. He's always been and still is popular in countries that target the USA as a migration destination.

    On closer examination though I think Superman is very symbolic but I think that Bruce Wayne/Batman is probably nearer the American dream ultimately. By day he's an enlightened capitalist in the modern American mould (rigorous businessman but very charitable etc) who still finds time to be a 'self made man' and act in a sort of "Wild West" state of mind by night.

    Hang on, inherited wealth, wild west mentality, hangs out in a technologically advanced underground bunker...Batman=GWB? Holy known unknowns and unknown unknowns Batman! Makes you wonder if Wayne Industries had the contract for repairing the damage to Gotham done by the Batmobile and the Joker blowing stuff up. Meh, politics.

    --
    Plays violent online games as: Nerfherder76
  11. Re:Female Writers? by kahei · · Score: 4, Interesting


    Rumiko Takahashi.

    But in the US and Europe, there appear to be no good female comic writers.

    I think this is because if a man wants to be a cartoonist, he learns to draw and design and lay out panels, while if a woman wants to be a cartoonist she networks with her art college freinds and produces a strip in which stick figures talk about Iraq and Men.

    I must note that the above theory is based on a single visit to Forbidden Planet and there may be some cases it doesn't address :)

    --
    Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
  12. Re:children by philbert26 · · Score: 3, Informative
    A man is capable of having children with multiple women. For a woman to do the opposite is not as advantageous.

    It is if the woman can keep it a secret. In many species, including humans, females will mate with other males while their partner is otherwise engaged. That way they vary the genetic mix of their children, while still keeping a male partner to look after them.

  13. For you maybe by hey! · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Ok, for some people mindlessly devouring puerile comic book entertainment appeals to the immature eleven year old in them.

    But for some of us, devouring puerile comic book entertainment and debating it as if they were something worthy of serious analysis appeals to the immature smart aleck eleven year old in us.

    [disclaimer: the following was written by my inner child]

    Now, for a demonstration of black belt level irony: those of you say we shouldn't talk about comic books actually hold the same opinions and have the same attitudes as those who say we shouldn't read them at all. Opinion: You both agree that the idea that comic books are anything based on them could have any literary value is absurd. You only differ in that you find comic books entertaining and they do not; they find pretentious intellectual blather entertaining and you do not. Some of us like both. Attitude: Both the literary stuffed shirts and the literary know-nothings share the attitude that people who don't like the same things as them need to be corrected. In short, you are both prigs. But I mean that in a nice way.

    [/disclaimer]

    Now, for you pleasure (or mortification (or both)), I will repost my K5 diary in which I analyze Spider-Man 2 on a level that would probably get me beaten up if I did it in my high school English class. By my teacher.


    I finally saw Spider-Man 2 last night

    I was trying to see I Robot but it apparently has disappeared from the local cineplex, so I settled for Spider-Man 2. But I enjoyed the movie. I thought the movie was not only very well done, it was very sly. After I got home, I went on the Internet to see what the critics had caught and what they'd missed. It turned out they missed a lot.

    I should say that if you haven't seen the movie and want to figure it out for yourself, you shouldn't read any further.

    There are three major story lines: Peter Parker's relationship problems with MJ, Spider-man's conflict with Doctor Octavius, and Spider-man's conflict with his own powers. These are resolved in reverse order.

    I want to focus on the resolution of Spider-man's conflict with his own powers. This is resolved in the scene where he rescues the passengers on a runaway train. My jaw absolutely dropped when I saw this scene, because it has to be the most blatant crucifixion scene I've seen in any film since the end of Blade Runner.

    Not only that, it is concluded with a bald-faced rebirth and resurrection scene. You could say the subsequent bit where Spidey is passed hand to hand over the heads of the passengers resembled a kind of baptism. And it does resemble baptism in this respect: it's was a kind of symbolic embrace of the new person by his community. However, I think perhaps this might take the Christian iconography a bit far -- I think that the filmmakers might have been reaching for a more universal pre-Christian symbolism. The ceremony reminded me of new age "re-birthing" rites. Of course it should be noted that Christian baptism by immersion also echos this: the new person emerges from water, the archetypal feminine element.

    The fact that Tobey Maguire also plays this scene unmasked is very interesting. I think the primary reason for this is that such a symbolically pregnant scene wouldn't work if played by an animated doll -- it requires an actor to energize it. But it works on other levels too. For the superhero, being unmasked is a kind of nakedness (which one or two critics did pick up on). Just as at birth one is physically naked, and at death psychically naked.

    I almost laughed when the crowd lays Spidey down gently, and somebody says "My God, he's just a kid! About the same age as my son." This is only one or two steps removed from "Isn't he cute! He's got Grandpa's eyes."
    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  14. Specious Darwinian reasoning by MisterSquid · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Actually 'sexy' means 'biologically strong'. A female is perceived as sexy because her body shape 'promises' healthy children, and thus survival of the genes. The same goes for men.

    This line of Darwinian rationalism is so flawed that I'm surprised many intelligent people even proffer it. Humans do not select mates based on phenotypical signals of reproductive fitness. Period. What you argue about body shape "promising" healthy children is ludicrous. China and India both come to mind. Furthermore, even a cursory survey of sexual icons and fetishes over the last 500 years reveals enough of a range--fat, thin, black, white, tall, short, disabled, herculean--that any argument about sexiness being a biological predisposition to reproductive capability is just plain wrong.

    --
    blog
  15. So you expect healthy kids from a MUTANT? by Moraelin · · Score: 3, Informative

    Let me tell you a secret: There's a reason the thin models get silicone implants to have big breasts. The reason is human biology.

    There is a fundamental problem with the current brain-fucked ideal of beauty (as represented in comics too), namely anorexic with huge breasts. The problem is that it tends not to happen in normal, healthy humans. By the time the body has been forced to eat its fat reserves, or didn't have enough food to build them up in the first place, guess what? It doesn't have enough fat for big breasts either. Those reserves went too.

    The current ideal of beauty is something that deviates far enough from the biological average, or from a normal human metaboloism, to count as a _mutant_.

    So you're telling me... what? That you're expecting normal healthy kids from a _mutant_? Now I would understand a fascination with mutants in comics as a source of super-powers (after all, most super-heroes are mutants). But as a means of propagating normal human genes to healthy human offspring, it's outright idiotic.

    And as was already mentioned, this ideal is very new. In some parts of the world, as new as late 20'th century. (See recent stories about Asian girls ending up with metabolism problem and other illnesses, by starving themselves or making themselves puke, to fit the beauty ideal Hollywood raped their coutries with. Countries where until recently the idea of beauty was a slightly fat woman.)

    See, for most of human history, the beauty ideal was actually someone who by modern standards would be considered overweight. And you know the fertility figurines the cavemen made? Now those were seriously overweight.

    _That_ was the kind of shape that guaranteed survival the next time there's a famine or you catch a disease. An anorexic wife would most likely have died long before passing those genes along. Someone with fat reserves would have survived.

    And then there are other bleeps on the history radar, such as the Greeks and Romans. You may notice that those did have statues of thin women, for a change. They also had tiny breasts. In fact, the Romans are noted as having invented the bra... for the purpose of _hiding_ breasts. In effect, a strip of cloth tied over the breasts to make a woman look like she had none.

    Oops, that ideal of beauty was different from ours too.

    Or then, yes, were the Chinese, whose idea of beauty was more centred around crippled feet. A woman was apparently dead sexy for them if, before anything else, her feet were crippled to the point of barely being able to walk.

    Oops, that differs from our beauty ideal too.

    So give me a break. There is no correlation between our current _mutant_ ideal of beauty and survival in anything even vaguely resembling natural condition. And there is _no_ constant ideal through human history to suggest that somehow chasing that idea is built into the species.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.