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Cringley Thinks Apple & Intel Are Merging

SamSeaborn writes "In Bob Cringely's latest column he talks about the Apple switch to Intel and concludes: 'what's behind the announcement is so baffling and staggering that it isn't surprising that nobody has yet figured it out until now. Apple and Intel are merging.' "

14 of 834 comments (clear)

  1. Remember, you read it there second... by NZheretic · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Apple+Intel:Mac 924 Vs Microsoft Gremlin & Linux Mini-van
    This leaves Apple with a choice. Either continue to remain the sole supplier of hardware for MacOS/X and loose a large chunk of the desktop market share OR choose to directly compete with Microsoft and let Dell, Lenovo and HP sell Apple designed/approved "built for MacOS/X" laptops and PCs. The OEMs would love to have Apple and Microsoft competing to sell on the OEMs own hardware.

    In my opinion if Apple does not choose the latter option, then it only because of very bad decisions by Apple's management or Sherman Act violating non-compete agreements with Microsoft.

    1. Re:Remember, you read it there second... by ajs · · Score: 5, Interesting

      "This leaves Apple with a choice. Either continue to remain the sole supplier of hardware for MacOS/X and loose a large chunk of the desktop market share ..."

      First off, Apple has made the choice you describe several times. Every time, they chose to keep running the show. Their proprietary hardware and software (which now runs on an open source middle-layer, which is kind of funny) are very much a part of the corporate mindset at Apple for good or ill.

      That said, I think Apple has grander plans than you give them credit for.

      The iPod is exactly what Apple needed (and has tried to do several times before) to kick-start the Mac's market-share. Eventually, the entertainment desktop of choice will be a Mac with various Apple peripherals. Don't be shocked to see an Apple prosumer-grade digital camera for around $500, and Apple solid-state camcorder, and Apple PVR and any number of other entertainment peripherals for which the best software will reside on the Mac (with merely adequate versions for Windows, and perhaps even for Linux).

      Apple is beginning to eye the space that Microsoft thinks they're going to own with the X-Box, but there's a gigantic difference between the two: one is percieved as a game box and the other as "that computer the really smart people use." That's some pretty serious branding mojo if Apple uses it right.

  2. Answers to his questions... by YahoKa · · Score: 4, Interesting
    That was not a well thought out piece of writing.

    Question 1: What happened to the PowerPC's supposed performance advantage over Intel?
    Gap is breaking, and there are many other advantages of Intel/x86.

    Question 2: What happened to Apple's 64-bit operating system?
    Just because Intel's 64 bit is expensive now, doesn't mean it will be in a year.

    Question 3: Where the heck is AMD?
    Who knows if it will be supported, but AMD doesn't have the supply of chips to deal with Apple. Plus, Intel has better brand recognition and probably more muscle in negotiating a contract.

    Question 4: Why announce this chip swap a year before it will even begin for customers?
    For developers... ?

    Question 5: Is this all really about Digital Rights Management?
    Probably not.

  3. Re:Idea for new Slashdot section by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I don't think so, I think Intel is thrilled to have another platform using their chips. His competition just became AMD again.

    I don't see Intel merging with Apple, I see Apple using Dell/HP/Lenovo to build their hardware (at worst). I'm not even sure about that as MS has a lot of control over these companies.

  4. I Disagree by Goo.cc · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Intel has shown a willingness to support anyone on their CPUs. They even invested in Be and Red Hat.

    I think we need more proof than speculation.

  5. Re:Idea for new Slashdot section by chris_mahan · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Sun will be purchased by Microsoft for around $2/share, or about $5billion, in about 8-9 months, after another 2 quarters of abysmal sales. The deal is already on, and SUN will be a microsoft division, so MS gets java and a real unix to compete against IBM.

    The reason why Sun bought Storagetek is that Sun needed to convert its cash reserves into company stock, because that can be depressed below actual value, and cash can't. Microsoft might also have wanted to acquire Storagetek tech, because while it sells hardware, the magic of the company is in the software, and that's up MS's alley (imagine real one-button disaster recovery built into Office).

    Sun has already abandoned SPARC. They don't have the cash to hire the engineers they need to make it a go. MS will promise to do that, but won't.

    Apple and Sun? Yes. Where does that leave AMD? with Nvidia, catering to the very high end gamers, and the e-machines of the world, and linux boxes (lots of them really).

    Apple + Intel means software and hardware in proprietary tandem. This will make AMD much less competitive, edged out like alpha and sparc to a fringe, then to nothing, IF apple and intel successfully market their new Apple OSX Intel Inside laptops. If not, then AMD takes the cake and Intel gets edged out long term (which is my prediction).

    Sun customers are either moving to linux / z/OS on IBM mainframes or Linux on Dell servers. If Sun does not get acquired, it will end up like SCO.

    There are enough forward-looking statements in my post that you should bring your salt shaker.

    --

    "Piter, too, is dead."

  6. Re:Wow by Jasin+Natael · · Score: 3, Interesting

    There are interesting nuances to this, though, for one that Apple is using PC BIOS -- alone, this represents a phenomenal technological setback for their company. APPLE may be selling a version of OS X that will only run on Apple hardware, but who said ANYTHING about other vendors co-branding and selling their own, different versions of OS X?

    Sure, Apple-released OS X will run only on Apple hardware, but what is to say you won't be able to buy an HP Computer with HP OS X on it? Apple knows what it has is valuable -- their brand. They will continue to keep it exclusive to the extent that it helps them make money. If they choose to co-opt or rebrand their products for additional profit, they'll do it. Right now, their market share is so low overall that even if letting HP sell a version of OS X as an option cannibalized 50% of Apple hardware sales, and they got a 1% kickback on the HP machine sales, they'd be coming out ahead.

    Honestly, aren't there any PC mega-vendors that are getting sick and tired of supporting MS Windows in the face of all its insecurities and problems? Spyware-ridden machines with millions of instabilities and quirky problems are as much a pain to them as to their customers. Dell, Sony, HP, et al. are probably thinking one thing: "How can we shaft MS and at the same time, have something worthwhile to give our customers?" The ensuing discussion: "Linux still isn't quite ready for the desktop, and good luck getting commercial apps we can resell -- I know!! We'll get Steve Jobs to sub-brand OS X to us!"

    I agree with Cringely on one thing: I think this whole 'phase' may just be to get developers to ready their applications for the x86 platform before they understand the ideology-breaking bombshell Apple will be dropping later.

    Jasin Natael
    --
    True science means that when you re-evaluate the evidence, you re-evaluate your faith.
  7. Here's my take by Dan+Crash · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Moving to Intel was probably done for supply and roadmap reasons, but switching architectures gives Apple the opportunity to grow their market share through piracy, a phenomenon that has been exploited by Adobe and Microsoft in the past.

    Apple will only sell OSX with official Mac hardware at their traditional prices to their traditional customers, but I suspect a cracked version will emerge and will displace Windows for a significant number of under-the-table users.

    Over time, pirated software often earns back more than its cost. Users who pirate because they cannot afford to purchase eventually become professionals who do purchase, and users who pirate but never purchase help exclude competing products from getting a foothold. Pirated copies of OSX may also increase the market for Mac software in general, not only because there will be a larger installed base, but because more programmers will become familiar with OSX.

    Maybe I'm wrong, and Apple and Intel will work so closely together that no cracked version of OSX-for-Dells will be out there, but if there is, Apple will have set themselves up for a real contest with Microsoft. They won't have to officially support the wide variety of hardware that Microsoft does, but they'll be able to benefit from having their software on it.

    Still wrapping my mind around the switch, but in the long term, this could be a big deal.

    --
    He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.
  8. Re:Idea for new Slashdot section by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I think that's temporary. The only thing that is uniquely good about Apple's computers (let the flames rage on) is their OS & software. Yes they make the $ on the hardware, but it's a side effect. Otherwise it's just yet another computer system. The only part of their hardware worth copying is the fact that their hardware spec is tight and centrally driven resulting in a cleaner system. This can be dealt with in other ways than actually having them build the HW themselves. Already PC hardware is going in the same direction, how much of your PC is truly configurable anymore? What new applications have come around that aren't standard in every PC? Your video card? Your hard drive? Your total system RAM? You can change those on a Mac (afaik). The only other things I can think of are niche's for tech developers such as myself. The day will come with the "PC" is as rigid as an Apple.

    If not for their OS Apple is a developer of yet another incompatible computer system that was once insanely popular, but fell behind due to overbearing, unresponsive, greedy, elitist corporate governance. Those types of companies tend to get what is coming to them.

  9. This is bigger then Apple... by ngdbsdmn · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Intel is a very very oportunistic company where the sole driving force is to make as much profit as possible. This may not be a bad thing in theory but in practice it's ugly as shit to se this kind of monster, a souless zombie. Now, because they are in bed with Apple it means that Intel wants something. We have Steve on a big scene being a good father for all the Apple kids but it should be very clear that this thing is happening because Intel wants to. What does it want? More money. How? They need some soul and Apple has plenty. Intel hopes to push some blood in it's cheeks with Apple, especially now when it's image is very bad compared to AMD in the all-profitable high-end arena so they want to ensure the masses and the masses are marketing frags.
    The sad thing here is the fact that the more Intel succedes with this move, the more we'll see Microsoft being pushed towards AMD and we all hate Microsoft and love AMD and we want it to remain like that. The good thing could be that if Intel makes 25% - 30% room in the desktop OS garden for a second choice from Apple this will mean that between Apple and Microsoft there will be an 20% gap, easy fillable by a third choice: Linux. This could be very very good, but I spy a big surprise from Microsoft with it's .NET Framework running on both Linux and Os X.
    The good times are coming.

  10. Re:Sad thing about that is... by WolfWithoutAClause · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Don't feel bad, Rosetta is probably based on a project called 'Dynamo' which was an HP project that did binary translation of PA-8000 processor code to the self-same PA-8000, running on the same machine(!)

    In other words, it was an PA-8000 emulator, running on PA-8000. And it very often ran faster!!!! (Between 5 and 40%, occasionally slower, but then it switched itself off and ran natively.)

    Obviously there was a trick; and it was that it was able to do stuff like straighten out code, which improved cache usage, and measure how the code actually ran, rather than how the compiler thought it might run, and generally do great run-time decisions.

    --

    -WolfWithoutAClause

    "Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"
  11. Why Intel hates MS and Why a 1 year wait? by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 4, Interesting
    1: Intel hates Microsoft because after MS made a 64-bit Windows for Itantium, then made a second 64-bit Windows for AMD64, Intel wanted another 64-bit Windows for their own incompatible x86-64 extensions that would have marginlized out AMD completely. Microsoft said no. Told Intel, you got a 64-bit Windows, AMD got a 64-bit Windows, and anything else you build had better be compatible with one of those two ISA's.

    2: A year from now Intel will have boatloads of VT (Virtualization Technology nee Vanderpool) enabled chips available. So unless there's an SSE4 instruction set hiding somewhere, expect Apple to make use of this feature which, coincidentally will prevent OSX from running on all the old Pentium 4's out there, as well as AMD chips since Pacifica does the same things, but with different instructions.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  12. Re:Clarifying the Cringely story by insignificant1 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Dvorak held the position before Mark Stephens. When Stephens came to Infoworld, the mag decided to use a pseudonym rather than have to change the by-line, I assume, every time another Dvorak/Stephens came & left.

    So Dvorak's departure is probably the reason for creating the pseudonym R.X. Cringley.

    But Stephens wanted to keep the pseudonym after later leaving Infoworld. Hence the lawsuit with Infoworld publisher IDG, likely because both Infoworld and Stephens had built the reputations of the column / columnist on the Cringely name.

    The resulting settlement out of court is why Stephens can't use the Cringely name for publishing in a computer publication.

    So hopefully I clarified the parent.

    Cringely Story

  13. No, not really by Moraelin · · Score: 3, Interesting

    They're within the same realm of reason as when retired cabbies at the pub discuss "obvious" political solutions that would fix the economy, bring the rest of the world in line ("just park an aircraft carrier off the coast of France, that'll scare them"... yeah, right), cure cancer, and generally make it all a wonderland. Or to put it otherwise, they're what you get when you think from a business/marketshare perspective... without having half a clue about either business or market share.

    You get stuff that sounds all smart and believable... as long as you don't let reality get in the way. (See his ranting about "unspecified" CPUs.) In Cringely's case, the sad thing is that he sounds all smart precisely _because_ he misses all the points, strings together some truisms and mis-representations, and appeals to an equally uninformed and slightly paranoid readership.

    Not meant as an insult to the readership. The fact is, yes, the business world doesn't make sense to most normal people. As someone else put it on slashdot a long time ago, if individuals acted the way corporations do (e.g., someone in the same day saying that you're his best friend, and that you're the incarnation of evil and must be killed), they'd be put in a loony bin.

    The business world is made of power games, veiled threats, PR press releases that intentionally mis-lead or mis-represent, and alliances that are formed, broken, and hinted at just to put pressure on a third party. E.g., see Dell's yearly announcing that they consider AMD chips -- and at one point they even let you order a replacement Athlon for your Athlon-based Dell... which didn't exist "yet" -- when they have to re-negotiate their discount from Intel. E.g., see Sony's big PR fuss about a HDD and Linux on the PS2... which turned out to be just a maneuver to get it clasified as a computer instead of a console in the EU, and thus not pay import taxes.

    For most normal people the real power games and motivations behind them are just ranging between "nuts" and "petty", or at the very least would if an individual did them instead of a corporation.

    So a whole class of pundits, Cringely included, exist just to rant some utterly false, but understandable by normal people, explanation about such events. They tell you not what is, but what you want to hear. Again, it sounds good and believable precisely _because_ it misses the real points. They're what _you_ would do if you were looking for market share and had no clue how that works (and fail miserably), not what a corporation would do.

    And of course, all complete with a shotgun approach to making predictions that are vague enough to look sorta fulfilled by such power games.

    It has nothing to do with "a religious vast-chasm viewpoint". I'm not even an Apple fan. By most Mac fans' standards, I'm a "wintel fanboy" and have been known to be modded as a troll for questioning Mac issues before.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.