Slashdot Mirror
7-Year Old Prequel Fan On ANH
Random BedHead Ed writes "It is a subject often pondered by Star Wars fans: what is it like to watch the six films in order with a fresh perspective? From the Desk of Ghent, On one of the Star Wars blog site's many journals, answers this question in a recent blog entry about the writer's 7-year old son, who recently watched A New Hope for the very first time. Some enlightening quotes: 'Look... Obi-Wan is pretending he doesn't know R2-D2,' and 'Why don't those ships need Hyperspace rings?' It's a pity the end of Empire has been spoiled."
You will never have the opportunity to relive the moment of truth at the end of Empire, or learn about the twins in Return of the Jedi. It will all be a foregone conclusion. Robbing a child of this opportunity is a heinous crime, given how much I enjoyed the original series given its original presentation.
John Maynard Keynes: "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do?"
A seven year old is more sophisticated watching his movies than George Lucas could muster while actually engaged in writing them. But then, some of us suspected as much, having been exposed to Howard the Duck.
Am I the only one who thinks that the Star Wars movies aren't really something that a 7-year-old should be seeing? This isn't some crack about the movies' quality, I'm just thinking that some of the scenes in these movies are very dark and scary for a 7-year-old.
Alphanos
"Why are red leader and gold leader the leaders? They don't know what they're doing..."
Point men... Expendable. Call them "heros" or "leaders" or whatever it takes to get them to fly in front, or detect land mines, or draw out the enemy fire, or whatever suicidal thing you want them to do.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
It's a pity the end of Empire has been spoiled.
Now instead of surprise it will be irony, as the audience knows what Luke does not. The audience also is left ahead of time wondering why Obi-Wan lies to Luke about his father.
Spoiled? Perhaps, in a way. But also brings up other things which are potentially interesting.
MORTAR COMBAT!
Also of note is how much Lucas' writing and directing style have changed. Episode IV is very slow paced compared to III. There is only one light-sabre battle, and it consists of Obi-Wan and Darth walking around calmly while being careful not to break a sweat. Contrast that to III, which has tons of sabre (and other) battles, and it quite fast paced.
Except all rebel fighters have them because they cannot count on capital ships, which the empire pretty much monopolizes. The miniaturized hyperdrive is what gave the rebellion a fighting chance to topple the empire.
Viral software licensing is not freedom, it is in fact GNU/Socialism.
You need to get to out more. You'll find that attitude taken by many Muslim, Jewish, left wing christian nutjobs, and new age liberal, and athiest parents. Probably other groups I haven't had direct experience with as well.
Why am I saying anything? I was raised by left wing christian nutjobs and had friends whose parents filled one of the above categories. Being an over protective parent has little to do with being a right wing christian, and more to do with being a fscking control freak. And control freaks are found in every religious and non-religious group.
You do realized that he filmed Star Wars first, and then made the other movies?
...
I find it odd how people try to resolve plot holes with fiction or twisted justification, as if this will somehow make order in the universe. the only people that may have to give this sort of matter any sort of concern is an official comic book writer or someone else publishing something under the Star Wars license. Allow me to explain the real reason: Obi Wan isn't real, and that scene was either somthing Lucas didn't think of or didn't care about.
Oh, and this is nice:
Slow Down Cowboy!
Slashdot requires you to wait 2 minutes between each successful posting of a comment to allow everyone a fair chance at posting a comment.
It's been 6 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment
Combined with that fucktarded script-test bullshit, slashdot has achieved a new level of shitiness. Course this will get my post modded down as flamebait or off-topic, but what else am I supposed to do while I sit here waiting for this magical counter to finish it's run? Cram my thumb up my ass?
Let's try again
Yes but keep in mind that Darth turned to the dark side to save his wife, and then turned from the dark side to save his son. See, Darth's all about love. Or that his only loyalty is family and he'll betray anyone. ;-)
I always felt that when showing the movies to someone who's never seen the movies at all and doesn't know about Luke's father (though most people do know about Vader, since that line is so engrained in pop culture), the proper order should be 4-5-1-2-3-6. Thus you get the story of Darth Vader who's this magic "Force" weilding goon for the empire, and of Luke, this farm boy from a desert planet who also learns of the force from Crazy Old Obi-Wan (Who tells him that Vader killed his father), and then rescues the pricess, joins the rebellion, and kicks ass. Then he goes to learn more of the force from Crazy Green Yoda, but leaves too early to finish his training, gets his butt kicked, and then learns that Vader is his father. Now, start in Episode 1 where you learn how Aniken became a Jedi, how the empire began, and how Aniken became Vader. Now, a small problem with this is that you learn that Leia is Luke's sister right at the end of 3, but that's not so big a deal since Yoda hints at there being another in 5, and you find out about Leia pretty early in 6 anyway. Then after seeing the prequills, you watch ROTJ to see how everything resolves and how Luke redeems Vader and defeats the empire.
The same can be said for real-life historical precedents: the diseased Roman Republic-turned-Empire before the literal barbarians at the gate, the decadent Russian czardom before the Russian Revolution, the power-seizing military coup d'état of Cambodia before Khmer Rouge, the enfeebled Reichstag before the Third Rei--ehrm, mustn't invoke Godwin's law...
However, as history also shows above, what would replace the corrupt institutions were not always shining beacons themselves
The Rebel Alliance are the counter-revolutionaries, with everything good and bad that it implies about them and the original "revolutionaries" they fought.
Yep, Eps IV-VI had bad acting and dialogue.
They succeded better for two reasons:
1. The directors worked around the bad dialogue a bit better.
2. Alec Guiness.
3. By far the biggest, Harrison Ford. Without Harrison Ford there would have been no episode V, let alone VI,I,II,III. He made the character work, he made his dialogue work. He knew the character better than Lucus. He ad-libbed the "I know" response to Leia's "I Love You".
The other actors and their dialogue varied. Hamill was a great farm boy, a mediocre Jedi. Fisher was terrible all around. But Harrison Ford glued it together and made it work.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
Marx called. He'd like to have his book back. ;)
:)
Seriously though, the most effective form of government is a dictatorship. Any government based on freedom is bound to be (at least somewhat) inept and inefficient. That's why the Republic looks slow, inept and complicated; while the Empire looks efficient, directed and simple.
So, which do you prefer?
I am rather amazed that this is the sort of take-away view that people might have of the series overall. To me, this is missing the entire point Lucas is making.
Look, I'm not saying that all members of the Galactic Empire's fighting forces were evil; in fact, I'm of the opinion that many thought they were on the side of right, attempting to restore order, etc. That does not mean, however, that the Empire is the side to side with.
I also do not believe it is correct to brand the Jedi, or other members of the Republic, as inept. Yes, the Jedi were blind to the manipulations going on around them due, supposedly, to their arrogance and, yes, supporters of the Republic way of doing things put too much faith in democracy. These sorts of weaknesses are time-honored in storytelling of this type.
That said, I hardly consider the Emperor's assumption of power to be a move in the forward direction. That would be akin to saying that Nazi Germany was a good step forward because the trains ran on time. Remember, we are led to believe in Ep. 4, 5, and 6 that the Empire is pretty naughty in implementing it's plans--one need look no further than the destruction of Alderaan for evidence of this. Not the sort of environment I'd look forward to living in.
Yes, the prequels, especially Ep. 3, do a decent job of filling in the backstory, but I think the real lessons of the series come from 4, 5, and 6: fighting oppression, facing your enemy, and redemption.
Anyway, that's my view.
After the second movie, I was hoping the "separatists" would evolve into the rebellion as they figured out what was going on. This would add extra [dramatic stuff] in that the emperor sowed the seeds of his own defeat by creating them in the first place.
I was especially disappointed when they turned out to STILL be working for sideous in the third movie despite the fact that they were double-crossed in the first movie and knew he was a dark jedi in charge of the senate in the second film.
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
ooh... oooh! I've got a better theory...
Due to blowing out the original budget on the enormous expense of the Jango Fett clones, they had to settle for a cheaper bounty hunter for the next batch.
Of the bounty hunters, the cheapest of the cheap was a young Greedo who, as we know, is incapable of even shooting a stationary Han Solo from point blank range.
This also goes along way to explaining why a bunch of two foot tall furballs can defeat an entire battalion of storm troopers.
You can't do hit and run if you can't run, right? :)
The hyperdrive seems more important for getting the hell out of Dodge than getting to Dodge in the first place.
Further, the blog presumes/suggests that you should watch the movies as Episode I thru VI. IMO, the proper order of watching these films is:
1. IV
2. V
3. VI
4. I
5. II
6. III
7. IV
8. V
9. VI
It has often been said that the true story of Star Wars is the rise, fall, and redemption of Darth Vader. This is certaintly true--from a certain point of view--but you can't even guess at that until at least the end of The Empire Strikes Back, when The Big Secret is revealed, and Darth Vadar becomes more than just a Very Bad Guy.
Instead, by watching the movies in the above order, 1-3 works on the obvious level: the rise of Luke Skywalker, farm boy, to Luke Skywalker, Jedi Knight and hero of the New Republic, and true carrier of Skywalker honor. Then, watching 4-6 (i.e. episodes I-III), you see the almost-rise of A. Skywalker, who dramatically fails to live up to everyone's hopes, and instead becomes Darth Vadar, Dark Lord of the Sith. Then, you can watch 7-9 (i.e. episodes IV - VI) again, with the further understanding of just who this Darth Vadar guy is, what he's all about, and just how far he has fallen, for the full the Fall and Redemption story.
Further, the above order preserves all the major surprises and plot twists. The only downside, IMO, is that the plot holes are more obvious, even discounting that you watch 3 of the movies twice (and therefor are more likely to notice them).
-- PondScum, SamThe
The prophesy never said he was to end the Sith. That was only how the Jedi interpreted it.
The Chosen One was to be born of the force, in order to balance the force.
At the end of Episode III, Anakin does this. When all is said and done, there are two Jedi (Yoda and Obi-Wan) and two Sith (Palpatine and Vader).
So, he DID balance the force and fulfilled the prophesy, it's just that the Jedi were too full of themselves to realize what "balance" means.
vi ~/.emacs
I hate to tell you, but I don't think James Earl Jones wrote the script or had much input into what his lines would be. He delivered the scene the way Lucas wrote it. Put the blame where it belongs. On Lucas.
The Sith represent an imbalance. Power and control aren't supposed to be in one hand... that disturbs the natural equilibrium represented by the whole omnipresent Force thing. Lucas likened it to a cancer that eats away at the host and eventually killing it. Through I, II, and III the dark side is chipping away at that equilibrium.
It's destined to end, per the prophesy, but it is up to Anakin how he gets there. It's actually a lot like Tolkien's Silmarillion. The world is created through the music of Illuvatar, and Melkor's desire to create and control represent discord... a cacophony against the song of Illuvatar. Melkor is defeated temporarily, but he is destined to return and be ultimately defeated (like the Sith, who re-emerge after a long time underground).
I think the big problem with the "NOOOOO!" scene is the difference in Vaders. In the original trilogy, Vader was a cold, calculating, determined, evil badass. In the prequel trilogy, Vader/Anakin is a whiny, annoying, petulent ass. There is no "bad" involved in his prequel ass of any kind other than the old, "not good," variety.
We don't see him become what he was in the original trilogy, we're left to assume that the intervening years actually made him an interesting character.
That "NOOOOOO!" bit worked with the prequel Anakin, but not with the original Vader. Whereas Lucas might have intended that disconnect to be striking, I think it came off more off-putting and irritating than anything else.
This is my sig. It's prescription, I swear. I need it for reading things... on the other side of things
While watching ROTS, as Obi-Wan picks up Anakin's lighsaber--leaving him to burn to death--all I could think of was the ANH quote "your father wanted you to have it when you were old enough" and damn was that that a stretch. Makes the "betrayed and murdered your father" seem pretty reasonble by comparison...
This one's not too hard, actually.
Let me start off by pointing out that Lucas' series is chock full of plotholes, and I solve them only because it's a fun mental exercise.
Now then.
Vader no longer has biological legs or arms in episodes IV-VI. Instead, he has robotic prosthetic limbs, and not very good ones compared to Luke's hand (and what's left of the organic parts is in pretty bad shape). He's also ~40 years old. His abilities with the Force are nowhere near as powerful as before his death, according to Lucas.
So, his lightsaber fighting isn't going to be very good anymore.
Obi-wan, now, he's explainable too. I don't remember the real numbers, but I'd assume he's around 60ish. While he's been training for a long time in the desert, he can't have had a remotely challenging lightsaber fight in the past twenty years, with not even potential sparring partners... Put those two factors together, and you can see where he might have lost the touch.
Luke is the easiest. Sure, he's strong with the Force, but he has no idea how the Jedi used to fight with lightsabers, and since Obi-wan dies so soon after they meet, he has no one to teach him the advanced technique. When he goes to train with Yoda, he doesn't learn it, presumably because Yoda had such a handful just getting this overaged pupil to use the Force at all, and to concentrate properly.
"Oh, I like geeks way better than I like humans." - Mari Sarris
If your contention were correct, Idi Amin would have lead Uganda to world domination while Margaret Thatcher tumbled the UK. Weren't the lessons of the 20th century to the contrary? Is it efficient for the Poliburo to have party members honeycombed through the whole economy, reporting every time someone neglects their duty? Would you take the Commissariat for Food over Wendy's? And doesn't hindsight (The Gipper v. Gorby) show whom to choose in a battle for military might? The Cathedral may work adequately for a campus in Redmond, but The Bazaar is the only realistic model to run a whole nation by.
"Give a man a fish and he will ask for tartar sauce and French fries!"
Vader realizes his hopes of taking over as the new Emperor aren't going to happen because Luke just isn't good enough to pull it off, and he cracks.
When did he realize this, before or after Luke removed his hand and placed him in the same prone position as Anakin placed Dooku? Sure, the Emperor took him down fairly quickly, but that was after Luke threw his Lightsaber away and presented himself defenseless to the Emperor. Well, not defenseless. He had the most powerful weapon in the universe not a yard away from him in the form of his father.
I came away with this. Anakin never had control of his life and never had personal responsibility. He went from a slave on Tatooine to Obi-Wan's padawan. He was always able to use his talent to get him out of the tough spots, but he never learned that his raw talent needed to be tempered by skill and focus. He lost to Dooku in their first battle because he leaned on talent and power. In their second battle, he tells Dooku he has grown powerful not how he has grown more skillfull.
Once he turns to the dark side, he returns to being a slave and he still relys on his power as a crutch. He is Cerebus on a giant chain guarding the doors to the Empire. Anakin fights Obi-wan the same way he fought Dooku. Unless you believe in luck, a clearly less powerful but more skilled warrior won that battle. Anakin is like any young adult. He does not think, he believe's himself to be invincible and he suffers from a monumental case of hubris.
Finally, in that throne room aboard the Deathstar, he makes his first conscious, responsible decision. He looks back on his life and realizes where he went wrong. He remembers the goading by Palaptine that drove him to destroy Dooku. He sees his son at much the same age, who grew up much the same way and had much less training than himself face the same situation and make the same choice. He finally realizes true strength, because his son shows it to him. Why does he return from the dark side of the force? Because he makes the right decision and makes the ultimate sacrifice for that decision. In his final moments, he does save Padme in the form of their son.
Maybe my rose colored glasses need adjusting, but I think that is closer to what the Lucas was thinking. Just my two cents, take it or flush it.
The cancel button is your friend. Do not hesitate to use it.