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Lessig on the World Social Forum
Raindance writes "Lawrence Lessig has a great article up on Technology Review about the World Social Forum held this past January in Brazil. In addition to telling an engaging story, it covers topics ranging from GNU and DRM to Brazil's interesting stance on the rights of foreign copyright holders, and is a good introduction to the permission culture/remix culture debate. It also makes me want to live in Brazil."
Don't be fooled; the software patent folly, the monopoly of huge corporations is also present here, perhaps not as big as in the U.S. or Europe, but it's growing. In our case, the situation is a little worse: the monopoly holder is foreign! If the operating system in almost all computers in American homes was from some Brazilian monopoly, I bet you would think something is very wrong. But here, in Brazil, we live by copying others, adopting foreign technologies, and never developing our own. We don't even play catch-up, for two reasons primarily: first, Brazil is a poor country and public money is very badly managed; research and development are secondary goals to making rich people, politicians, richer. Second, so-called first world is so ahead in technology that not a few think that pursuing our own self-sufficience in tech (not only IT, but science in general) is futile. Of course, there are a few and honourable exceptions (Cesar Lattes is a very well known physicist), but in general this is how we fare.
Stupidity is an equal opportunity striker.
Fellow slashdotter Bill Dog
I'm tempted to mod you down for this, but I'll reply instead. The article you linked to shows that Brazil disregards patents on AIDS.
Good on them! There is no way that drug companies factor profits from Brazil into their feasibility studies for the simple reason that Brazil cannot afford AIDS drugs. Since drug companies are making AIDS drugs, we know they are making a profit without support from Brazil. I'm glad that Brazil has enough guts to stand up to the US, Germany and France over drug patents.
As for respecting the GPL in kiddie porn, would it really make it that much better if they did respect the GPL? All they would have to do is provide the source code along with their kiddie porn program. The GPL permits anybody to do anything with the software, including run spam sites, distribute kiddie porn or program the guantanamo bay gas chambers.
If Brazil was taking my GPLed software, turning it into a commercial product, and then selling it around the world then yes I would be pissed at them ignoring the GPL. But guess what? Even in that hypothetical scenario I don't have to worry about Brazil not respecting copyright because I can just go to a local court to have their actions banned and a fine imposed.
Or, for the shorter story, your analogy is useless.
I read the article. A very different socio-political environment indeed. And I think it sounds wonderful.
I honestly like what I'm hearing from Brazil though. This sounds beautiful. We all know that free software is a good thing. I don't think there's anything wrong w/ someone retaining rights to their intellectual property. The right thing to do if you don't agree w/ how they want to license the rights to use their product, is to *not* buy it. But I *do* think there's something strange w/ someone trying to tell me how many times I can read the e-Book I've purchased, or listen to the MP3 I've downloaded, until I have to buy a new one. One could of course, liken this to renting a movie, but it's still a bit different.
I think that what we're grasping at here all comes from the folly of trying to set up of a system of rules to govern the consumption of intangibles so that they can fit our existing econonmic model built largely around the consumption of tangibles.
...
"...but when your beloved GPL application turns up in a Brazilian program designed to create and share child pornography you won't exactly be laughing."
Poor argument against the GPL. Are you just pulling out the worst possible thing you can think of and sticking it in with GPL just to make it look bad?
You apparently, like many others, have no idea what intellectual property really means. And also no idea of its scope outside of where you reside.
What you are essentially "trying" to argue, is that tools (software under the GPL) may be used by people with bad intentions. I could point out many other tools that can be used with bad intentions, but I'm sure you could to.
The reality of IP is much different than people are willing to believe. Please don't throw in references to child pornography, etc. simply trying to evoke some sort of emotional response and sticking it with the GPL.
Question everything.
I'd like to second this, but also point out that American techies in Brazil make QUITE a bit more than "$100 a month", and can feel pretty safe if they stay out of the ghettos and politics.
A few weeks ago Larry Lessig gave a great talk along with Jeff Tweedy at the New York Public Library. In it Lessig talks a lot about Brazil and how they are totally nuts about open source, and how it isn't only overweight nerds with ponytails who are into it (his words, not mine). Definitely worth watching, there is some great new material that wasn't in his book Free Culture or anywhere else that I know of.
http://www.geocities.com/email_theguy/newportweb/
Don't put advice in your sig.
If you agree with what Lessig says in this article (and it's about as uncontrovercial yet insightful as you can get, typical of Lessig), then the best way to honor it is to pass it along to family and friends (and maybe politicians) to read. I've been a fan of Lessig's for a while, and this is an excellent short summary of the issues involved, not from a technical level or an RMS-hippie-fist-raised standpoint, but from a very clear, calm, easily-approachable angle.
It's not about software. It's about culture. It's about the fabric of our lives (and I don't mean cotton).
And if the US is not careful, it will be about our marginalization as a country of any importance in the information sector. We'll have made it illegal for Americans to create or have culture. That's very sad, particularly as I am an American.
Spread the word. Then go read Lessig's book "Free Culture" (dead-tree or free electronic format). Excellent read.
--GrouchoMarx
Card-carrying member of the EFF, FSF, and ACLU. Are you?
You should do some research on the situation in Venezuela before accusing someone of being an enemy of freedom. Let's just remeber the fact that Mr. Chavez got back from a "coup d'etat" because of the peoples support. Besides, the ones accusing him of authoritarism (not that I think he's perfect, in fact I also think he should handle the situation in a different manner) are the ones that held the power before him. Best regards to everyone.
This article is filled with non-sequiturs and confusion:
1) so a guy took a bunch of his home movies, mixed them on an iMac and ended up winning an award at the Cannes film festival. Lessig asks "what if he wanted to mix someone else's video with his own? He couldn't". That totally didn't make any sense. You just proved that you don't need to be able to use other people's material freely to get into Cannes. Next time pick an example that had something to do with your point.
2) Proprietary software makes Brazilians software pirates. Yeah, and murder laws make killers criminals. What? If you really want to follow through on this line of reasoning, you have to assume that there are not any suitable alternatives to most proprietary software. He seems to be in Brazil in part to trying to convince people that there are.
3) constant mixing up of two definitions of free in the same context. Brazilian govt. are spending 1bil a year on proprietary software. Free software could solve this. Which free? You can charge for GPL software ya know. Look at the Sveasoft Linksys router firmware. You can use the GPL in software and still make sure you make lots and lots of money off people, if your product is good.
That said, go Brazil.
This may seem good in the short term, but when your beloved GPL application turns up in a Brazilian program designed to create and share child pornography you won't exactly be laughing.
You may as well say "This may seem good in the short term, but when your beloved printing press is used to create and share child pornography you won't exactly be laughing."
The GPL doesn't differentiate with regard to what code is used for; it just mandates that derivitave code be released under the GPL.
The parent is using child pornography for shock value exclusively.
I submit that kiddie porn may be poised to replace Hitler as the new Godwinesque indefensible extreme.
-- This void intentionally left null.
One town I was in the ratio of women to men was 8:1!
Uh...what was the name of this town?
"The Waste Land" , by T.S. Eliot, published in 1923, IIRC, is one of the most prominent early examples of the "remix culture". At least a third of Eliot's text consists of quotes from other writers, including reviews on Wagner, popular songs, reformation playwrights, and translations of Eastern mystics. In today's terms, it would be a massive copyright violation, on the lines of the quote from the Rolling Stones that cost the Verve so much of their royalties from "Bittersweet Symphony".
My point is that there is a "high culture" version of this "remix culture" that has existed for a long time (classical musicians would often quote from each other). Perhaps acknowledgement of this might encourage legislators to accept that protection of the rights of older artists stifles the creativity of new ones. (This relates to the patent debate in a thread further down the front page).
Actually, the bottom line is that it is going to happen, one way or the other. Individuals may suffer from this, like the Verve, who lost the revenues from a hit album, but others will gain, like kids in poorer countries, who are not viable targets for US trial lawyers.
The woman like Americans because Brazilian men are notoriously unfaithful, cruel and not around much. One town I was in the ratio of women to men was 8:1!
You've got to be shitting me. THIS is modded insightful?!
I'm Argentinian - that's right, we're Brazils' next door neighbours. Been there myself a lot of times. How the fuck can you tell that Brazilians are "cruel and unfaitfhul" to their women? How many couples have you met? Because i've meet a lot, and they were quite happy. Where were you visiting anyway? If anything, they're mostly great people, which is more than i can say of other countries i've visited. And yes, Brazilian women are usually fun and sexy. Not bimbos.
These bullshit generalizations drive me mad. So, all Americans treat their women like shit, dress like fucking idiots and shoot each other? Because they surely seem to do in those nifty rap videos!
And yes, electronics are expensive (not insanely expensive though), mainly because of the dollar-real ratio and import taxes. Deal with it. And you can have a decent salary as well - just stop thinking in dollars for two seconds.
There is a response to this article by a Professor of Law from the University of Chicago (who holds a more moderate view about this -but nevertheless agrees to some of Lessigs view) here
Because living in dirt huts without electronics,
and focusing on developing your nation's IT infrastructure with an emphasis on software which is or can be locally developed while allowing your people access to AIDS medication,
are really fucking similar.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
No company should make anything that could possibly have evil uses. For example, Microsoft Word could easily be used to write a pamphlet promoting child pornography. Outlook Express could be used by terrorists trying to overthrow the government. Too bad the folks in the marketing department didn't thing of these dangers before wildly releasing them into the public.
His wording may have been poor. In a prior life I had several mission trips to central and south america, and on more than one occassion heard similar sentiments from a native female about her own country's males. I personally have had much more success romantically with foreign women, and subsequently have been responsible for helping perpetuate the generalization that american women are spoiled brats. The generalization that he speaks of sounds to me like it might have originated from a Brazilian to begin with.
Having waded through all 9 pages of the article I agree that it was quite fine, like most of what Lessig writes.
I think there is something going on, which he barely hints at, that will come to be important. The World Social Forum is not an event mainly focused around copyright law or free software. It is an event organized for a myriad of global popular movements of a generally leftist character -- for economic justice, environmental preservation, indigenous rights, gender and racial equality, and so on. It is one of the focal points of what is sometimes called (I would say erroneously) the "anti-globalization" movement.
What we are seeing here is a convergence between those movements and free software. From the standpoint of leftists, it is quite natural: If you are interested in alternative forms of social organization (to unrestricted free-market capitalism) both the way open-source communities function and the nature of the software itself as a public resource are a prime example of how such an organization could work.
On the other hand I imagine parts of the open-source community would be very wary of the association: After all, many community leaders go to great lengths to be as apolitical as possible, or even are outspoken conservatives or libertarians, and have spent years trying to persuade major corporations that supporting open-source does not mean destroying capitalism. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
"(Man) tries to live his own life as if he were telling a story. But you have to choose: live or tell." --Sartre
Marie Claire Insults Guam
The women of Guam have denounced an article in the international women's fashion magazine, Marie Claire, which stated that Guam women may not marry as virgins and that a man travels the island "deflowering" future brides. The article appeared in the December issue of the magazine and was under the caption title: "Jobs your boyfriend wants".
Lt. Gov. Madeleine Bordallo described the article as disgusting. "It was written in ignorance and I think we have to do something about it," she said.
The Colonised Chamoru Coalition called on Guamanian organizations nationwide to join in protest and boycott the magazine. It has also asked business houses to cease carrying the magazine in their shelves.
Coalition members are seeking legal assistance to determine what action can be taken against Marie Claire.
Dude, TFA is about the "World Social Forum", not the "World Sexual Forum"...
when I submitted this story back on the 6th, it was rejected. You should read Lessig but note that in the same issue of TR, there is a rebuttal of sorts to Mr. Lessig's interpretation authored by Richard Epstein.
SLASHDOT: news for people who can't concentrate on work or have no life at all and got tired of yelling back at the TV.
Portugese may be more useful for Brazil.
You can't argue with the numbers when it comes to abstaining.
We have corporate socialism. In the end its really no better then medieval systems of governance. Its just wrapped up in platitudes about democracy and the market.
========
CINC, 4th Penguin Legion
Actually yes you can. The numbers are a central point to abstaining since so very few people are capable of living their lives without sex. Keeping in mind that many people who claim to be chaste are simply lying, the small number of people who manage to make it to marriage without any sexual encounters are not just ineffectual they're also not normal.
So why advocate a type of behavior that most people cannot adhere to considering the stakes which are disease? Its much more logical to give people who are sexually active the information and tools they need to protect themselves then to expect them to live up to some ridiculous conflicted fundamentalist standard of sexuality.
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
Good comment about culture.
I'm an American, and my impression is that, in general, Brazilians seem to have healthier family lives than Americans.
The person who wrote the grandparent comment said, "One town I was in the ratio of women to men was 8:1!" This is just a cultural misunderstanding. The single Brazilian women thought he was exotic, and they were interested in meeting him. Only that. In most towns, the most interesting things to do are social. It just seemed like there were more women in the town than men because the single women were more interested in meeting him. His popularity was connected to the interest that Brazilian women have in marrying.
I've read other comments to this Slashdot story, and I feel uncomfortable with the implication in some of them that the Brazilian culture is less developed. I feel uncomfortable with the idea that the Brazilian government is more corrupt than the U.S. government.
I write a column about culture, called "Duas Culturas", for a small Brazilian newspaper. The column compares Brazilian and U.S. culture. It's a new column and I will soon try to sell it to other newspapers, so most of the articles are not online. However, one of them is below, slightly modified for online reading.
Here is a translation to English of the first paragraph:
"My Brazilian friends talk a lot about corruption in the Brazilian government and violence in Brazilian society. The things that they say seem reasonable. However, the way that they speak frequently implies that corruption and violence are much worse in Brazil than in other countries. In truth, corruption and violence are very serious problems in the U.S., also."
Duas Culturas
Two Cultures
"Um americano compartilha pensamentos e opiniões sobre o Brasil e os EUA"
Meus amigos brasileiros falam bastante sobre corrupção no governo brasileiro e violência na sociedade brasileira. As coisas que eles dizem parecem razoáveis. Porém, o modo que eles falam freqüentemente insinua que corrupão e violência são muito piores no Brasil do que em outros países. Na verdade, corrupção e violência são problemas muito sérios nos Estados Unidos também.
Desde que o presidente George Bush foi eleito, o governo norte-americano tem pedido dinheiro emprestado a uma velocidade sem precedente. Os EUA devem hoje mais dinheiro do que qualquer outro governo na história do mundo. No momento, os EUA devem mais de US$ 7 trilhões. O dinheiro vai para os ricos; as pessoas da classe média ficam mais pobres. (Na internet: U.S. Debt Clock ). O empréstimo é a razão porque o valor do dólar está se desvalorizando rapidamente.
Há uma discussão sobre violência na sociedade e prisões brasileiras demonstrada no excelente filme brasileiro "Ônibus 174". Para comparação, se você sabe inglês e tem acesso à internet, você pode assistir um documentário norte-americano mostrado na televisão de lá, chamado The New Asylums . O documentário discute o fato de que o governo americano põe as pessoas mentalmente doentes em prisões. De todos os países no mundo, os EUA têm a porcentagem mais alta de seus cidadãos em prisões. Você pode comparar a superpopulação e tortura em prisões brasileiras com o tratamento extremamente agressivo em prisões norte-americanas. Houve também muitas histórias sobre o governo norte-americano torturando prisioneiros no Iraque e em Guantánamo, Cuba. Qual governo tortura mais? O governo dos EUA matou estimadas 3,000,000 de pessoas desde o fim da Segunda Guerra Mundial. Qual governo mata mais?
Dê sua opinião: Michael Jennings, Caixa Postal 122, Campos do Jordão, SP 12460-000. duasculturas AT gmail DOT com. ©2005. Duas Culturas e Two Cultures são marcas de serviço.