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Apple Making a Spreadsheet?

Raleel writes "It appears that apple has trademarked the word "Numbers". Speculation is that it is a new spreadsheet. It makes sense with Keynote, Pages, and Mail." That would sort of fill in the last major hole in their lineup.

21 of 611 comments (clear)

  1. The Numbers Game: by TripMaster+Monkey · · Score: 5, Interesting


    From TFS:


    That would sort of fill in the last major whole [sic] in their lineup.

    Errant homonyms aside, this seems to make a lot of sense...after all, Apple is just a spreadsheet shy of an office suite...although between M$ Office and Open Office, I find myself wondering why they're even bothering...

    Also, wasn't there an Apple spreadsheet program previously...called 'grid' or something? I seem to recall something along those lines...perhaps 'Numbers' isn't a spreadsheet after all. The assumption that 'Numbers' is in fact a spreadsheet is only speculation, after all.
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    1. Re:The Numbers Game: by moonty · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I'd imagine 'Numbers' could also refer to a calculator. or... maybe Apple is getting into the shady side of 'organized' gambling.

    2. Re:The Numbers Game: by CdBee · · Score: 4, Interesting

      A Sun executive announced about 3 years ago that Apple had hired engineers to work at Sun on StarOffice (OpenOffice + commercial addins) for OSX, and that this product would shortly be announced and be shipped with new Macs

      The same guy was sent about a week later to deny that it was happening but accept that he did claim that it would

      2 years later, Apple produces an internally-written, incomplete Office suite completely unrelated to StarOffice/OpenOffice

      Assumption. As with the time ATi preannounced an Apple product by accident and was dumped for nVidia, Sun screwed up and Apple pulled the whole project in revenge. Pages/Mail/Keynote is the replacement. Numbers is the missing component.

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    3. Re:The Numbers Game: by BWJones · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The thing that many people are really missing out on with Pages is that it really is a DTP program. Adobe and the other programs that perform page layout should have done something like this years ago. Pages is small, compact, pretty speedy and it handles images like no other word processing program I have ever used.

      Now if I could just get End Note to work with Pages, I could drop Word entirely.

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    4. Re:The Numbers Game: by MoonBuggy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      ...although between M$ Office and Open Office, I find myself wondering why they're even bothering...

      I don't know if you've used it or not, but OpenOffice on OSX just doesn't flow properly at all. It may sound like a small thing, and I'm sure some people are happy to put up with it, but on a computer that carries a premium for design and "Just works" it really kicks the whole thing out when you have an app that doesn't 'feel' right, especially if you use it alot. Conversely, Keynote (which I had used long before the release of Pages) had impressed me from the start by being easier and slicker than the competition and Apple has Pages going the same way. OpenOffice is functional, but iWork is above and beyond.

      As for MS Office, I don't personally like it as much as iWork anyway but for those in business it's really the only option - Apple wants to have a mature office suite in place as their user base expands, that way even if MS does decide to pull their suite from OSX it won't do as much damage - Apple don't want to look like the creation of the software was reactionary to MS's assumed withdrawl of Office v.X, even if it was in fact pre-empting it.

    5. Re:The Numbers Game: by itcomesinwaves · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Come on you guys. Apple already has an Address Book and 3 Calculators: the widget, the app, and 'grapher' a 2/3D graphing app). While a solid database app would be nice (no Access for the mac), FileMaker Pro is filling that need for now. Plus Apple's other business apps seem more geared towards the very small business. Not much left for it to be but a spreadsheet.

    6. Re:The Numbers Game: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      1) Yes, Apple eats its own dogfood, but sticks with Entourage for email/calendar and MS Office/Mac for spreadsheet, word-processing, and 1/2 presentations. It seems like about half have switched over to Keynote for presentations. 2) Filemaker pro is used for database work.

    7. Re:The Numbers Game: by ccoakley · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Nahh, they'd call it "Tables."

      Seriously, though, I would really like Apple to make iWork into a complete product. It isn't just missing an excel and access replacement. It is also missing key "Apple" functionality: applescript capability.

      While keynote 2 does expose an applescript dictionary, it is completely useless. Things you should be able to do (but can't) via script:

      1. Create a new document (slideshow)
      2. Add a slide
      3. Edit the slide
      4. Set the transition effect

      OK, so basically anything useful. The sad part is that Microsoft PowerPoint has an almost useful applescript integration. I say "almost" because the bindings for creating image slides is broken (you get a nice interpreter error when you try to create an image from a file).

      AppleWorks did have decent scripting capability.

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    8. Re:The Numbers Game: by Engine+Man · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Please. A little respect for AppleWorks.

      It is a truly great piece of software. It may be dated by today's standards but this was one of the shining stars in the Mac land long before the iApps hit the scene.

      It has gone virtually untouched for years as Apple, first killed Claris Inc, then brought ClarisWorks (later re-named AppleWorks) in house and left it to die - but it still runs on Apple's latest OS.

      That says an awful lot for the developers behind AppleWorks. They built an app that was compact, full-featured (for its time), fast, ran in a tiny memory footprint and was easy to use. They pretty much followed Apple's constantly changing API setup to the nail without cutting the corners that would have seen many other apps break horribly long before Tiger.

      It was innovative and, given the resources, could have travelled the same prosperous road as Filemaker.

      It's a shame that Apple politics have led to the demise of AppleWorks and I for one will miss it (as I'm sure it won't run on Leopard) in a couple of years.

      No doubt, Microsoft played a part in Apple leaving it to stagnate.

    9. Re:The Numbers Game: by Anonymous+Writer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's pervasive across the OS X system, and technically I'm using it right now in this Safari text box.

      I didn't realise that. So do some of the GUI features in OS X work like OpenDoc or OLE? I'm not too familiar with what goes on under the hood, but I recall glossing over an Apple developer front page that described how you could easily extend features of OS X applications, like adding a menu to TextEdit that accesses iTunes. However, I wasn't aware that it also had OpenDoc/OLE qualities. Can OS X do things with it's applications and AppleScript kind of like the way you can use OLE or Active X controls in an Access database field and control them with Visual Basic? As for Linux, I know that GNOME stands for GNU Object Model Environment, so I was wondering if GNOME also functioned that way.

    10. Re:The Numbers Game: by Sentry21 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      My first impression of Pages came just recently, and I think the best way to sum up my initial reaction to the way it worked was 'Holy crap, it's a Pagemaker clone with attitude!' I used to use Pagemaker back ten to fourteen years ago, and Pages strikes me as startlingly similar to how it worked back then. The placement, flowing of text, text boxes, columns, it's like an easy-to-use Apple-ized DTP rewrite. What a fantastic program.

      Haven't used Keynote yet, but I intend to. Looking forward to Numbers. Maybe I'll get lucky and Apple will release a personal accounting package. It'd probably be called 'Accounts' or 'Finances', since 'Money' is already taken.

      *hope*

  2. The perfect spreadsheet... by Maury+Markowitz · · Score: 3, Interesting

    You know what I hate? Watching one company copy another's program without looking at any other examples for good ideas. This seems to be happening MORE these days, notably in the free software world.

    So what WOULD make a good spreadsheet? Here's some ideas...

    1) start with Lotus Improv - the key idea here is the separation of sheets, temporary work, and formulas

    2) add 3D sheets from Stories, they would fit into Improv's "sheetlette" idea perfectly

    3) there's got to be an idea or two from Spreadsheet 2000 worth using

    4) Now make every *&%&^% part of it AppleScriptable

    THAT is the spreadsheet you want.

  3. I still await Exchange integration with iCal by Raleel · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Ya, i know of GroupCal, but I was never particularly happy with how it worked. I would like to see iCal work with exchange over webdav at least. Not to be a conspiracy theorist, but it's so blatantly missing that one has to wonder if there wasn't a hidden deal somewhere. I suppose if i were Mr. Jobs, I might just buy Snerdware.

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  4. Re:Not enough, not comparable by Reverberant · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Not enough, not comparable.

    It depends on your perceptive. I can agree that a lot of large firms (the type with full IT staffs and in-house programmers/pseudo-programmers) use the "real" MS Office in the manner you describe. But a lot of people just need a word processor to /read/write letters and a spreadsheet to crunch numbers.

    Seriously, go drive/walk to you town/city center and look around. You'll probably see banks, maybe an accounting firm or small engineering firm that needs VB/Access functionally. But keep looking. You'll also see things like barber shops, a Ma & Pa convenience store, maybe a store front for plumber, graphic artist, and so on. These people probably wouldn't know what a database or scripting language was if you hit them over the head with one.

    As long as they can read whatever Office formats that are sent to them (and thankfully that may actually happen), the combo of Pages/Keynote/Numbers will be enough for the great majority of small businesses.

    Given the number of small businesses in the U.S., I think the potential market is higher than one might expect, especially if you think business=megacorp

  5. Re:Patenting a _word_? by Neurotoxic666 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You could sell TradeMark(tm) cookies

    It reminds me: some grocery stores here (Canada) are selling "No Name" brand products (which are much like "President's Choice" and other home brands). And "No Name" is a registered trademark.

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  6. Re:Trademarks Out of Control by overunderunderdone · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Hello? The company is Apple(TM).

    People have been trademarking common words since trademarks were invented. It's nothing new and aside from completely made up words it's hard to avoid.

    The more common the word in the industry it's used in the less protection your trademark gives you. A completely made up word (c.f. "Exxon") and you can claim infringement in almost any use by your competitors. "Apple" is just an arbitrary word in the industry it's in so it still gives them pretty good protection. Apple could certainly stop a competitor (but not an orchard) from being named "Apple Systems, Inc." "Numbers" is NOT arbitrary, it's descriptive so Apple would probably have to live with a company in a related field called "NumberSystems Inc." or a product called "Number Cruncher" even if a similar use of a more arbitrary trademark would have been a violation of their trademark.

  7. Menus are per-window instead of universal. by shmlco · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Menus are per-window instead of universal.

    Of all things on a Mac, that REALLY needs to be an option. It wasn't bad on all-in-one Macs with small screens, but on a 30" or dual-23s that universal, top-of-screen menu is all to often WAY OVER THERE...

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  8. Re:It's Just In Case by Spyritus · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Microsoft was caught with QuickTime CODE in Windows Media Player. Microsoft got it when they bought a company Apple was paying to write QuickTime plugins and had given the code to them to help do it. Where Apple got the Code to Microsoft Media player from I have no idea.

    Incidentally this infringement lawsuit was the reason QuickTime 2.5 for Mac and Windows was released free.

    You'll have to Google real hard for this as all the press-releases on it where removed from Apple's site when the Microsoft's investment where announced, but I assume some courthouse somewhere has documents on it.

  9. Re:It's a hole in the line-up by DChristensen · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So *you're* the Goatse guy!?

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  10. Number Buddy by wesc · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I used to work on the Excel team (MacXL 1.5 thru XL2000). Way back when they were brainstorming for names, Doug Klunder, one of the original programmers on Excel made a passionate pitch to call it "Number Buddy".

  11. Not to mention the output! by itomato · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Whatever publication you put out with Pages will put you WAAYYYY closer to something your Printer will smile over rather than curse, like with Publisher.
    >shudder

    I had the same reaction to Pages after using PageMaker & Publisher in a production environment. Publisher is NO GOOD AT ALL.

    However, OpenOffice, Pages, Word & PageMaker/Quark/Publisher/InDesign/Frame cannot be fairly compared as equals.

    Pages does Word + Publisher *BETTER*
    Numbers will probably do Excel + Access *APPLEY*

    Remember:
    FileMaker, Inc. is a wholly owned subsidiary of Apple Computer, Inc. (NASDAQ: AAPL).